tolian21

Screw acura site, go to truecar.com, i can buy it for 38.5 today. Is350 would have to have all packages and mark levonson system. This is actual dealer quote too

InfamousQ

The IS350/GS350 AWD setup is basically rear wheel biased, 70 rear/30 front (similar to a lamborghini). If you do lots of drifting on snow or wet surfaces, the rear will kick out, when it does, power is sent more to the front wheels to pull the vehicle from spinning out. Power distribution to the wheels can be transferred up to 50/50 (snow mode is 50/50 on top of increased electronic nannies).

Engine layout in the IS/GS is longitudinal so weight is dispersed slightly better & less noise heavy compared to FWD architecture. The arrangement of it is similar to RWD performance car.

Infiniti & Nissan GT-R ATTESSA-ETS awd systems are similar to the lexus rear biased AWD, only difference is 0F/100R, when slippage is detected, power distrubtion can reach 50F/50R. Engine layout is front midship longitudinal, so majority of the engine/tranny sits behind the front axle, which gives their cars 53/47 front to rear weight standing still, under hard acceleration, weight becomes 50/50 which is ideal according to nissan engineers. It's what makes the GT-R what it is (note: R35 GT-R has a transaxle transmission, means the transmission is on the rear axle compared to transmission up front like the rest of infiniti's lineup).

Acura on the other hand is the opposite, front wheel biased at 70 front/30 rear, power transfer can be delivered up to 70% rear, to help the car oversteer. The engine arrangement is transversed, which means the engine either sits in front of the front axle or above it (typical engine layout for front wheel drive), so with a vehicle based on FWD platform, understeer is typical & weight biased is in the vacinity of 60F40R.

Subaru's awd differs from front & rear biased AWD system, dubbed "Symmetrical AWD", subarus system is a balance 50/50 all the time, but can distribute power front to back, side to side to the tires with the most traction, & it's mainly mechanical setup.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

This thread has really gone off the OP's topics. The IS350. Acura weighs more, has less torque, and is not as aggressivly geard.

Cause it is

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

2010 TL with SH-AWD out did a 2008 Audi S4 Quattro manual; 2008 BMW 335i Sport; 2008 BMW 335xi Sport and a 2008 Infiniti G35s. Spanked them all around the track

Read more: http://forums.motortrend.com/70/7083...#ixzz2JxhmVijZ

Spagolli94

Agree. I was shopping for cars this past fall and actually had several dealers match the $38.5k price for the fully loaded SH-AWD model. They are deeply discounting these cars to try to move them off the lots.

I hated the new TL when the redesigned it. But, with the refresh, it's not a bad looking car. And the interior is great. So I gave it a look. After a quick test drive, I kinda like it, kinda not. It's AWD system helped mask the fact it's a BIG car. Power was adequate, but not great. Shifts were sluggish. Steering was numb. All told, the fun factor just wasn't there. I could say the same about the IS though.

In an effort to close the deal, the Acura dealer let me take a TL out for a long demo so I could get it on the highway and put it through it's paces. Epic fail. Big, numb, floaty and disconnected. Sure, it was comfy I guess, but I'd be asleep by the time I got to my destination. I've never taken an IS out for a lengthy highway cruise by comparison.

I ended up going with a CPO 335i. Paired with a proper MT, this car wins the fun factor comparison hands down. I don't care what the specs and numbers say, the 335i FEELS worlds apart from the TL and the IS. Even Lexus' own promo video for the new IS admits it was lacking in the fun factor. The 335 feels so planted, yet quick and nimble at the same time. Ride quality kinda blows, but it's worth it. Newer 3 series offer adjustable suspensions, so you can soften things up in the city.

I'm really anxious to see if the new IS is a worthy competitor to the 3 series. If it is, Acura is in a world of trouble 'cause they have a lot of catching up to do. I don't care if a car has enough techno wizardry to go to the moon. I don't care if it goes 0-60 in 3, 4 or 5 seconds. None of this matters if the overall driving experience is lame and disconnected.

InfamousQ

Infiniti G35S with the manual transmission is strictly RWD, G35xS (x=awd) is only in automatic. Somewhere along the lines, the information is wrong or lacking on motortrend's side.

Not sure why they would take a 2010 TL vs a 2008 G35, why not against the 2010 G37xS??

I would agree the TL SH-AWD in the manual, is faster than a G35xS (auto only) because the automatic is a horrible slush box.

Also if each car was driven with traction & stability on (which is not stated being turned off), the rear biased AWD cars nannies would kick in & be more intrusive than the Acura's front biased, therefore slowing the vehicle down significantly. Drive either vehicles in heavy snow condition & you will understand.

The 2009 TL SH-AWD vs the 2009 G37 Journey. Depends who reviews them & their level of driving skills, different reviewers have different opinion. If a professional driver (race car driver), was to test them, i beg to differ the results that motor trend got.
http://www.edmunds.com/infiniti/g37/...son-test1.html

SW17LS

You can get very deep discounts on the IS right now too. Bottom lines the cars are around the same price.

TXDriver

Acura's branding has been confusing in the last few years. They have said they are not trying to compete with 'tier 1' brands, that they want to be the 'smart luxury' brand. They don't want to invest in a RWD platform since I doubt they would sell that many more than they do today. Their cars are a better overall value, but recently with the ILX and RLX pricing I think they may be in danger of losing that value advantage.

They could make a killer TLX but something tells me they will want to leave distance between it and the RLX and frankly there is not much room there. If they can't make a competitive TLX then the only competitive cars they will have are the MDX and RDX.

Unfortunately Acura and Honda are so secretive about their plans they don't give their customers much to look forward to.

TXDriver

The car may have had inappropriate tires for the conditions. Any car trying to drive in snow with summer tires, even with AWD, is asking for trouble.

So the ES is just a rebadged Toyota?

tolian21

Acura tl shawd tech will still run at least 4k less than similarly equoped is 350 awd, i already did some negotiations. Check truecar.

InfamousQ

Both cars (TL SH-AWD & G37xS) comes in all-season, but even fitted with the same identical winter tires (ie Michelin X-Ice), any rear biased will have it's tail kick out more often, when it does traction/stability kicks in almost simulataneously, thereby reducing acceleration dramatically.

Roads are designed to slope down to the side walk (center median has highest elevation vs road next to side walk) for drainage purpose, & when you're accelerating on snow & ice condition, the rear will fishtail towards the sidewalk (or which ever side the road slopes down), front biased AWD (front heavy) will pull away easier with little to no fish tail. Where I live, all-season are almost as useless as summer tires in the winter time, weather is much colder than the all-seasons are rated for.

As for the ES, 2013 shares the same platform as the Avalon, as for engine & transmission & drivetrain layout, it's the typical 2GR-FE V6 FWD transverse layout also found in the camry. Which is where it end it's similarities, the ES is built in an entirely different factory & country versus it's toyota counterpart so to answer your question, ES (all generation) is strictly a different vehicle.

If you want to look at a rebadge car, look up 2006-2011 honda civic & acura CSX, 2008-12 Honda Accord Euro & Acura TSX. 80+% indentical interior & exterior, not including material. I'll leave you to decide which gets leather & which gets cloth, standard.

SW17LS

I've done WAY better than TrueCar on every car I've bought over the last couple years. Truecar showed a $2,500 discount on my GS, I got $6k. Negotiations are always a personal thing, you have to compare them MSRP to MSRP.

A fully loaded IS350 AWD is $47,565, a fully loaded TL SHAWD with Tech is $44,676. So, the IS is $2,800 more. I'd pay $2,800 all day long for a Lexus over an IS.

Anyways, its a moot point because IMHO the TL and the IS aren't really competitors since the TL is so much bigger. Obviously when the new IS comes out, you won't be able to get a deal on one at all for a while.

LexFather

There is no "value" in offering less, for less money. That is called less, Wal-Mart strategy. You do realize a loaded Escape or Kia, Hyundai SUV has more features than a RDX right. Its embarrassing.

TLX will come, appeal to the same Accord, Camry, Honda fans, a handful of Tier 1 buyers and that is all.

And really drop the ES commentary, the ES is the best selling Asian luxury car of all time and it continues to sell well and be well received. To critics and consumers Lexus has done a far better job with separation from its parent company.

jinmui

I own a lexus IS but the new TL doesn't look that bad when its modded...

cino

iTrader: (1)

^^ You're right. Paint that beak to body color or black, everything is going to look just fine.