spwolf

Aside from that horrible cluster (TTAC has pic with light shining on it, looks really bad), ATS also has knee space like in 2IS (something we all moaned about) and also has only 10cuft of trunk space.

It is a bit surprising that they didnt check what people wanted from their entry sport sedans, because we were pretty opinionated about leg space at the back.

2GSKaizen

iTrader: (1)

All in all, this thread is comparing horseshoes to hand grenades. Anybody who is going to invest that much money in one of these cars SHOULD pick the new IS based on 2 things. 1. Cadillac doesn't come close to long term reliability of a Lexus. They just don't, never have, never will. That companies whole philosophy is to build 8 cars using the same platform, a few for "luxury" a few for "blah", give each one different badging, tweak the sheet metal and interior, and call them different cars. This philosophy will always fail when compared to a company that is building 1 car, for 1 purpose, and sharing only an already proven powertrain with other models. 2. This Cadillac's resale value will be 50% of its new cost in about 2 years, as with all mass production GM cars. I even used to be a GM back in the day, but you couldn't pay me to drive their junk anymore. All 3 GM cars I've owned needed transmissions before 125k with light driving. All 3 lexus's I've taken past 150k beating the living snot out of them every time I get behind the wheel, or what I call "driving a sports car like it was meant to be driven." No way the Cadi is going to hold up over time.

SW17LS

I don't think so at all...people are going to cross shop these cars, and the ATS has been BEATING the competition in comparison tests. Thats nothing to sneeze at.

Thats outdated thinking. GM of today (especially Cadillac) is very different than GM of yesterday. Cadillac has been working very hard to improve their product, and they have succeeded tremendously. Every model is an incredible leap forward from the previous model, they're making attractive, well built cars, with performance to back them up, well made interiors with very nice materials. Great technology, the cars look like nothing else on the road.

The ATS is an all new platform, its not a shared platform vehicle. Every manufacturer shares platforms, as does Lexus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Alpha_platform

And...lets be honest...most new buyers lease and trade in 3 years, even if they buy...maybe 4-5 years? Nobody here buys these cars new and keeps them forever. Look on the forums here, how many 2005 Lexus owners have owned those cars from new? Plenty of 2005 Lexus owners...but they were used buyers.

Also outdated. Guess who won the 2012 best retained value award for a sedan over $40k? Cadillac:

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/b...alue-cars.html

It beat out every Lexus sedan for that honor. Every BMW and Mercedes sedan.

The times are changing.

Mr. Burns

Hmmmm I didn't know the ATS had those gauges, they are the same as in the XTS without the configurable LCD display.

In that case the IS' standard electroluminescent gauges destroy the ATS gauges.

SW17LS

Yep, same gauges as the base XTS. Terrible.

SL222

those base gauges of the 3is look terrible in that pic as well...at least compared to the ones in a 2is

SW17LS

LOL...how so? They're standard Lexus optitron gauges. I like the fact that the numbers are straight up and down vs the goofy way they're set up on the 2IS.

B16da9

iTrader: (7)

Totaly agree with you, the new IS to me looks like 2IS with an ugly body kit.

I hate to say it but yes most of the members of this forum love the car but we are a small percentage of the market. I would love to see what regular buyers that are looking for an entry level luxury sedan think of it.

T4Fun

i am not sure these cars are a fair comparison. there is no way a gm car can match the quality of a lexus. the gm is so freaking ugly. i would like to see would buy a gm when a lexus or infiniti are options as well

SW17LS

Have you driven the car? I can tell you it is absolutely a worthy, or superior competitor to anything else in its class.

I've been a Lexus owner for a decade+, and I would buy an ATS over a 2IS without hesitation. 3IS remains to be seen, but I would assuredly buy one over a G37.

Lexus makes great cars, but everybody else is making great cars too nowadays.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

To the ATS's credit, a 2.5 then will not be the same as a 3.6 with nicer trim pieces let alone the smoothness of 6 vs 4.

This is why I credit Lexus and the IS250. Sure they could have dropped a 2.4 or 2.5 I4 into the car to compete against those from say a S40, TSX, A4 etc.. but rather than have a buzzy little motor they graced it with two extra cylinders and a bump in torque. People always complain about how slow the IS250 is, but they just don't get it. It's meant to be a 4 cylinder competitor but they did well enough that less isn't always more. Point in case the IS250 gets essentially the same mileage as the TSX.

natnut

Doesn't the ATS have a miniscule rear seat and trunk?

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

This. Just because automakers have a history, they are not necessary destined to repeat it. They all know now that they cannot produce crap because the public will not buy it and sales numbers reflect that. Those who love to judge despite having no contact with the vehicle have absolutely no merit to do so. I admittedly am not a GM fan (a major Blue Oval fan), but I cannot deny GM makes some excellent vehicles, the ATS being one of the new success stories. It's Magnetic Ride Control (which even Ferrari borrows tech from) is one of the best in the business and in implementing it, has essentially dethroned the Ultimate Driving Machine in the small entry level luxury sport class. Same can be said of Lexus and the 4GS over the revered 5-Series. Honestly as BMW's are losing sport in favor of Luxury and others are gaining sport and performance at the expense of utility (as one example), the entire playing field is essentially becoming level and there really isn't a bad choice to choose from. It'll come down to personal preference in regards to branding and aesthetics.

SW17LS

Yes, but no moreso than the 2IS. It's livable.

dseag2

I think they are both great designs, although the ATS is very conservative. I would not buy an ATS because of the much-maligned CUE system. They need to go back to the drawing board on that, and I'm sure they will. It looks like Lexus hasn't overburdened the 3IS with iPad-type technology (ala CUE and the new Q50 touch pad), and that should be a good thing in the long run.

Maybe I'm a dinosaur, but I don't want to move icons around with my fingers while I'm trying to drive.