Ramon

At the risk of repeating myself... Not significant enough. Not to mention, the GS and ES did not get considerably larger, the IS did. I'm just not the wishful thinker you are.

SW17LS

You have absolutely no basis to say the changes were not considerable enough because you have not driven the car.

And...the ES got significantly bigger, like 4 inches longer. The difference in size with the ES is similar to the difference in size with the IS.

The GS did get bigger, but not as significantly as the ES. Anyways, like I said the same engine is in the GS, which is significantly bigger than the IS, and delivers excellent performance without the benefit of the new 8 speed, which the IS will have.

Don't be so closed minded, wait and drive the car before you make a judgement.

natnut

I think you should consider performance relative to its current competitors in this segment ie the BMW 335i, the Mercedes C350, the Audi S4 and the Infiniti Q50.

Is it competitive or even faster than many in this segment? Yes. Will it be cheaper or price-competitive to its rivals in this premium compact segment? Probably.

So what's your complaint? If you're comparing to M3 or RS4 or C63 AMG, that's unfair since that's a different price range.

Sounds like you're reaching to try to find a reason to justify your negative gut reaction against this car. If that's true, just cop to the truth and admit that you just don't like the car -- I can respect that.

But don't invent irrelevant reasons to bash the car when 300+ hp with an 8-speed gearbox is DEFINITELY credible and competitive in this segment.

I'm going to just straight up ask you : which competitor car DO YOU consider as having the requisite power and performance to satisfy you?

If it's any of the usual suspects like 335i, C350, S4 or G37, then you've discredited your own argument since they all essentially fall within the same performance envelope.

peteharvey

Here is my 2 cents worth; without denying other members of their opinion, nor having to put down their opinions.
My 2006 IS250 had a gorgeous front end, and the interior plastics, leather and stitching exuded in quality etc etc.
The biggest problem with my 2006 IS250 was space, then probably what many car magazines describe as a choppy ride etc.

Now, with an additional 70mm, the 3IS has a massive 2800mm wheelbase, similar to the 3 Series 2810mm.
However, that 3IS puts the 4GS's 2850mm to shame; making the 5 Series 2968mm wheelbase at least point in the right direction.
However, always remember that life is a compromise, and that lengthening the wheelbase also increases flexing, so that the gain in torsional rigidity and bending stiffness won't be as great.

As for the engines, these directly injected and variable valve timing V6's have been developed for the top end.
For example, the 3.5 in the GS350 actually has more top end acceleration and a higher top speed than the Audi A6 3.0 Supercharged, yet around town, the A6 3.0 Supercharged is quicker.
Notice the number of posts on this forum requesting turbos.
Personally I am not a turbo fan, but I recommend that for practical purposes, the 3IS have more bottom end torque.
Mind you, I've test driven GS250's overseas, and although the power and torque figures seem to be the same/similar, if I'm not wrong, they have actually beefed up the bottom end torque of their 2.5 V6, however the 3.5 is still very much top ended.

If Lexus was actually willing to spend a bit of money, they could actually deliver the 3IS engine in 2 different engine tunes:
1) with more bottom end torque for the average luxury buyer, by delaying the valve timing, reducing the valve lift, and delaying the ignition advance etc etc, and
2) a second type of tune for top end power for the enthusiasts, by advancing the valve timing, prolonging the valve duration, increasing the valve lift, and increasing the ignition advance etc.
If Lexus wanted to put even more money into it, they would have two engines of the same capacity, but different bore/stroke ratios, with a relatively narrower bore/stroke ratio for the average driver, and a relatively bigger bore/stroke ratio for the enthusiast.

The suspension already comes in two levels: the normal, and the F Sport.
This time, hopefully the base model suspension is genuinely comfortable, without the old model's so called busy ride.

Note how Lexus is not disclosing the 3IS's weight?
Weight is the bane of motoring, and it will disadvantage the performance, economy, and handling.
However, life is a compromise, and weight actually improves the ride! The sprung weight in particular.
Even if the 3IS is heavier, it is possible through minor tinkering to fractionally improve on the performance and economy figures.
For major improvements, the 3IS must be lighter.
Will Lexus set the market on fire and make the 3IS with aluminium: bonnets, boot lids, doors, and suspension arms??

Because the 4GS was actually heavier than the 3GS, the 4GS with its newer stiffer platform and firmer springs could improve on turn-in/steering sharpness/speed of change in direction, however the 4GS could not improve on the 3GS's maximum lateral acceleration on the skid pan, which remains the same.
Mind you, the 4GS has done well to match the old 3GS lateral acceleration on the skidpan, considering the 4GS's extra mass and higher center of gravity.
Likewise, it will be interesting to see how the heavier 3IS handles relative to the 2IS, when we know that the 2IS does NOT handle as well as the original smaller and lighter 2000-2006 1IS which almost handled like a four door version of a Mazda MX-5/Miata.



Members, we must remember forum etiquette to put down our 2 cents worth, without pretending to be God, putting down other member's opinions, and trying to deny them of their opinions.
Only God can judge. We're just humans; it's just one member's opinions over another member's opinions.
If the man wants more power, let him have his say, and let him have more power.

As humans, we are not perfect, nor is our produce.
The 3IS has its strengths and weaknesses.
Lexus wants unbiased "feedback" for guidance so that they can constructively improve on their products.
Dealerships and sales reps want biased die-hard "promotion" to maximize their sales.
The two don't go hand in hand.

While biased die-hard making out that the 3IS is "perfect" is great for short term sales, the disadvantage is that it gives no feedback to the manufacturer who is trying to constructively improve its products, and this is actually destructive to long term sales.
For the dealerships and sales reps, in the long term, a good product sells itself; it is a poor product where the dealerships and sales reps must work hard to dishonestly flog off to the customer...

SW17LS

Nobody is putting anybody down,we're discussing the car. That's the whole point of this forum, to discuss the car. You coming in here and writing a novel about bore and stroke and whatever is all well and good, but don't tell us we're not respecting his opinion, nobody has been anything but respectful. Disagreement is not disrespect.

He says he wants more power, we say wait to see how the car performs with the new transmission before you pass judgement. What's disrespectful about that?

Nobody knows what she cars strengths and weaknesses are...because none of us have driven the car.

cino

iTrader: (1)

Does the 3IS have aluminium hood, trunk and roof?

peteharvey

I suspect the 2IS shares an aluminium vertical suspension member with the 3GS, but the 2IS certainly doesn't have the 3GS's aluminium bonnet.

The new 4GS still has the aluminium bonnet, and I suspect the 4GS upper and lower suspension arms are aluminium too.

Not sure how the 3IS goes as far as aluminium is concerned?

Presently, only the 5 Series has an aluminium boot lid, and aluminium doors.
There may be a few other makes and models that use aluminum components too, especially the E Class...

LexFather

Amen brother.....

350PsDMeuP

iTrader: (1)

Some people have to learn the difference between a post and an open letter....However, its a forum meant for enthusiasts to discuss their OPINION on various topics.

Now back on topic, the transmission is an 8 speed which means quicker shifts or what? Maybe it'll blurp, like the F...

SW17LS

It all depends on the gearing. Quicker shifts, more accessible power band, lower final drive ratios which won't help performance so much as fuel economy,I have not driven an ISF, my only Lexus 8 speed experience is with the LS.

peteharvey

Lower first gear should give a fraction more acceleration off the mark.
A taller 8th gear overdrive will give slightly better economy.
More closely spaced gears give smoother gear changes; not sure about quicker gear changes?

Normally, quick build up in hydraulic pressure gives quick, but abrupt and jerky gear changes.
Hydraulic pressure builds up gradually for smoother gear changes.
However, with more closely space gears, maybe the hydraulic pressure can build up more quickly for faster gear changes?

There is a limit to how many gears can be used, before the time taken to change gears exceeds the gain in acceleration from that extra gear, unless something like a CVT is used, where there is no time lost at all in changing gears, because there is no disengagement.
Overall, theoretically small incremental gains from an 8 speed auto, but not huge gains.

Back to the topic of this thread.
Would I trade 2IS for 3IS?
Still too early to tell...

cino

iTrader: (1)

The less use of aluminium mean the more weight can be reduced. Enthusiasts who are worried about 3IS being overweight, shouldn't be anymore (if they really don't use aluminium on hood and trunk of 3IS). CF hood and trunk, and lighter battery will save a good amount of weight.

peteharvey

I reckon they have to make a breakthrough in affordable mass production of aluminium or carbon fiber, so that cars can be mass produced from these materials affordably, just like back in 2003 when Canon released the world's very first affordable mass produced digital SLR camera, the EOS 300D/T1i; before this camera, previous digital SLR's like the EOS-1D and the Nikon D1X etc, were unaffordable at US$5-10k each...

dorkacho

iTrader: (5)

great insights here; i'll wait a bit longer too then

Ramon

I've given you my basis. You ignoring them and/or not agreeing with them is another matter entirely. You may think the GS has excellent performance, I may not agree. You may think Lexus will inject magic fairy dust into the cylinders to unleash some hidden performance with the same power output in a bigger car, I don't think that's going to happen.

As far as open mindedness, I am. I had every intention of sticking with an IS for my next vehicle, and now I have every intention of looing elsewhere. I'd say that's pretty open minded.

As to what other cars in this segment offer what I'm looking for as it relates to power output that another member asked. That's easy, a 335i with a dealer offered reprogramed Dinan ECU option and full manufacturers warranty