Changed out my transmission fluid
12-19-16, 08:02 PM
#16
12-19-16, 08:05 PM
#17
In my case, this is highly unlikely. It was a one owner that kept everything to the car. He kept every single service record (majority at the dealership) that was all sorted and he followed the scheduled maintenance up until hi traded it in at the dealership. From there, it went to auction, another dealer bought it, then I bought it a few days after. It has the original transmission, probably the original fluid too.
12-19-16, 08:31 PM
#18
It would be nice if someone once and for all explained the flushing procedure (if possible) and draining.
I called 3 dealerships and asked to drain and fill: 1st dealer refused to do it said it's a very complicated and unnecessary job, 2nd dealer told me it will cost roughly $600 because getting the fluid level right is complected and requires special dealer machine, time, etc., 3rd said they would do it for $150 w/ fluid.
By reading a huge thread on this forum, I came to conclusion that you can only drain 3 quarts at a time and flushing is not possible. All 3 dealerships said it's unnecessary to even touch the tranny and everything that I am reading in forums is just bunch of BS. 2 dealerships that actually gave me a price now, at first refused to do as well when I called several month ago
I called 3 dealerships and asked to drain and fill: 1st dealer refused to do it said it's a very complicated and unnecessary job, 2nd dealer told me it will cost roughly $600 because getting the fluid level right is complected and requires special dealer machine, time, etc., 3rd said they would do it for $150 w/ fluid.
By reading a huge thread on this forum, I came to conclusion that you can only drain 3 quarts at a time and flushing is not possible. All 3 dealerships said it's unnecessary to even touch the tranny and everything that I am reading in forums is just bunch of BS. 2 dealerships that actually gave me a price now, at first refused to do as well when I called several month ago
Here is a link to one of the companies that makes these machines.
https://www.bgprod.com/catalog/trans...change-system/
Here is the link for the type of adapter you need for a BG machine to do the flush.
http://kansasbg.com/2012%20Tech%20Tips/Transmission%20Service/techtip313.pdf
There are other machines specifically for Toyota/Lexus like the following
https://toyotaade.snapon.com/ItemDet...temId=47860148
The problem using a machine is:
1. Does the guy operating know how to use it properly?
2. Will the shop use Toyota WS ATF?
3. Does the machine use pressure? Some guys feel this will ruin your transmission internals.
The transmission fluid definitely needs to be serviced if you plan on keeping your car for a long time. A simple pan drain and refill is better than nothing but the dealer charges too much or doesn't even want to do it. That's why a lot of folks just do it themselves. Now if you do this many times with about a week or two in between you can recondition your fluid slowly until it's almost brand new. I think a good indicator on how quickly you can do this or even getting a transmission flush and doing it all at once is the first time do a pan drain and fill, capture some Transmission fluid and send it in to Blackstone for analysis http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ . When you get your report it should give you a general sense of whether your transmission is in good shape and can handle a complete flush or just a gentle refresh over many months by doing pan drains and refills.
Everyone one has an opinion on this but where we all probably agree is that there is no such thing as lifetime. The transmission fluid needs to be serviced.
If you're in the DFW area, Davenport Motors (Lexus Specialty Shop) does a full flush for the ISXXX for $218. They use the BG Machine linked above.
Last edited by Mrfix; 12-19-16 at 08:45 PM.
The following users liked this post:
redspencer (12-20-16)
12-19-16, 08:42 PM
#19
Whats interesting is that Aisin does a factory fill with their own brand of fluid
https://www.amazon.com/ATF-0T4-Genui.../dp/B00A2T7GS8 .
12-19-16, 08:56 PM
#20
Well like I said the transmissions did not change that much when they went to this system, they did it for cost saving measures and marketing reasons, IMO. It gives the appearance of some advanced mechanical system but friction is friction irregardless of what they say. That has not changed. They are just trying to change perception for the new buyer. Just think of a person buying a new car, most people don't as involved as we do in our cars let alone doing actual work on their car. It's way to intimidating. So say your a car buyer buying a new Lexus. The sales person says you don't have to worry about maintaining the transmission and backs it up by saying that a transmission can cost thousands to replace. They (Lexus) also has the data to know that most original owner's will not keep their cars past 100k. After all it is consumerism and they have to promote more sales for new cars. Someone has to buy them. They also have the data to know when in general a transmission will fail if the fluid is never changed- ever. We're talking trends not exact numbers. The industry does failure tests all the time on this sort of thing. Its a marketing ploy. Who knows, perhaps a 14 year old trans out of an IS300 would fail quicker with 100 K transmission fluid in it. I don't know. Maybe they have designed a trans that works within it operating range with 100K transmission fluid in it. I don't know about that either. I'm a good mechanic and worked professionally as one for a time in my life but never took apart a transmission but like I said friction is friction and moving parts fail.
Now back to what I experienced:
With the 1 3/4 quarts changed I did notice a slight more positive shift and a little quicker shift. Could be my imagination. All I know is the fluid that came out was black and it smelled bad with a very strong burnt odor. Not like diff fluid which smells bad coming out of the bottle. There was not a bit of red translucence to it AT ALL. I don't know what that equates to on the chemical testing scale of the qualities of the fluid and what it is designed to do. Also my experience is that if the fluid level is off by say 10 percent plus or minus it won't make much of a difference. There is a hot range and a cold range with a quart worth of latitude so if your off by a slight bit it wont damage anything.
If a dealer is going to charge you 160 bucks to do exactly what I did its a profit source. Say the job takes an hour. Pay a mechanic $30 per hour, 10 bucks for WS fluid thats 40 bucks of direct costs leaving $120 for indirect cost and profit. Most of the pros I know tell me that if the book says 1 hour worth of labor he better get it done in 45 min.That's 15 min worth of labor that that turned into profit They don't give the customer a refund if the job takes less time, that's why they always charge book rate. When the jobs get big like brakes, timing belts or other jobs we're talking hours not minutes. It's a huge profit center for them. . As a matter of fact, most of the service writers at the large dealers are given a daily quota to fill. At the Lexus dealer close to me its $20K per day with a weekly average. They have 10 service writers. Do the math. Changing fluid is not a high overhead operation.
In closing, I'll do the fluid again in a few weeks and maybe once more and leave it for 60K can't hurt. If my trans fails its not because of the fluid not being changed. Also, like I said I don't abuse it but I use it hard. I like using the paddles most of time up shifting and down, rarely put it in 5th or 6th around town. I like keeping my rpm up at about 2500 to 3k that's my driving style. I really don't care if it breaks or not, but if it does I'll get it fixed or swap in a new motor, trans or whatever. The machine serves me as I please.
Now back to what I experienced:
With the 1 3/4 quarts changed I did notice a slight more positive shift and a little quicker shift. Could be my imagination. All I know is the fluid that came out was black and it smelled bad with a very strong burnt odor. Not like diff fluid which smells bad coming out of the bottle. There was not a bit of red translucence to it AT ALL. I don't know what that equates to on the chemical testing scale of the qualities of the fluid and what it is designed to do. Also my experience is that if the fluid level is off by say 10 percent plus or minus it won't make much of a difference. There is a hot range and a cold range with a quart worth of latitude so if your off by a slight bit it wont damage anything.
If a dealer is going to charge you 160 bucks to do exactly what I did its a profit source. Say the job takes an hour. Pay a mechanic $30 per hour, 10 bucks for WS fluid thats 40 bucks of direct costs leaving $120 for indirect cost and profit. Most of the pros I know tell me that if the book says 1 hour worth of labor he better get it done in 45 min.That's 15 min worth of labor that that turned into profit They don't give the customer a refund if the job takes less time, that's why they always charge book rate. When the jobs get big like brakes, timing belts or other jobs we're talking hours not minutes. It's a huge profit center for them. . As a matter of fact, most of the service writers at the large dealers are given a daily quota to fill. At the Lexus dealer close to me its $20K per day with a weekly average. They have 10 service writers. Do the math. Changing fluid is not a high overhead operation.
In closing, I'll do the fluid again in a few weeks and maybe once more and leave it for 60K can't hurt. If my trans fails its not because of the fluid not being changed. Also, like I said I don't abuse it but I use it hard. I like using the paddles most of time up shifting and down, rarely put it in 5th or 6th around town. I like keeping my rpm up at about 2500 to 3k that's my driving style. I really don't care if it breaks or not, but if it does I'll get it fixed or swap in a new motor, trans or whatever. The machine serves me as I please.
12-20-16, 07:16 AM
#22
Since I do take my IS350 to track days and autocrosses about 2-3 times a year, this thread had me thinking about the long term durability of the lifetime transmission fluids in our A760E units.
I contacted my local Lexus service center and confirmed that they are able to perform a full transmission flush using one of the specialty machines that MrFix had posted. I'm scheduled to have this service done in late January so I'll keep everyone posted on any noticeable changes with the transmission (good or bad) with this full flush procedure.
My IS350 has around 80k miles so I'm hoping the transmission is healthy enough to endure a full flush.
I contacted my local Lexus service center and confirmed that they are able to perform a full transmission flush using one of the specialty machines that MrFix had posted. I'm scheduled to have this service done in late January so I'll keep everyone posted on any noticeable changes with the transmission (good or bad) with this full flush procedure.
My IS350 has around 80k miles so I'm hoping the transmission is healthy enough to endure a full flush.
12-22-16, 10:45 AM
#25
I am 2 days away from dropping in off at the dealer. I will ask them too. I dont really want to waste $150 bucks for 2qt of tranny fluid if its useless. I cant come there every week and pay $150 each time until all 12 quarts are flushed too
12-24-16, 12:43 PM
#27
Came from dealership. Service guy spoke to some senior tech who worked there for like 10+ years and told me not to waste money with draining tranny pan, also said he has never seen IS350 with failed tranny and he would not recommend flushing anything. They didnt even want to take my money even though I had this service scheduled already
12-24-16, 10:17 PM
#29
12-24-16, 10:50 PM
#30