fbarbarosa

Our '09 IS250 has about 8000 miles. I called a service advisor about something and he said that I should bring the car in for the fuel system recall and an intermediate service. I asked what that entailed and he said among other things, an oil/fluid change for the differential and automatic transmission. Oh yes and some oil and fuel mouse milk. He was not able to give me the cost of the milk.

I challenged that and he said that only the cars with “world-class” oil did not need changing. He said I could not upgrade to better the oil because “everyone would do that if they could”.

Surely, that is not right! The IS250 is not a 55 Chevy.

I do want the recall taken care of and to keep things simple I am OK with them doing the oil and filter change.

Still I thought I would post this as a sanity check. Is there a good reason why I should get this Dealer’s version of the full intermediate service?

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

The best part is that not only is changing the fluid never required on the automatic 2IS... it's physically impossible

Be sure to point out the page in your owners manual where it states the fluid should never require service when you go in there.


The diff fluid can be changed, but this too is never, ever, called for in the owners manual.

He's trying to sell you extra crap nobody needs... even better he's trying to sell you something that doesn't exist.

KillaIS250

iTrader: (1)

All 2IS's use Toyota's World Standard ATF. Your dealer is BS'n the crap out of you and like Kurtz said, its physically impossible to change the fluid. My advice: Point it out to your dealer and then go to a new dealership. Don't trust your car with fools that don't even know about what service needs to be done.

RTIS250

iTrader: (9)

Why would they even try to sell you that kind of a service with only 8k miles on the car? Thats something that'd be done at 30k.. and even then, the trans fluid doesnt get changed. (And its not impossible, you can still do a regular drain and refill, but you're only gunna get about 2qts of fluid out). Something sounds a bit strange. An intermediate service, like a 15k, is usually just the regular oil change, inspection, cabin air filter, etc... not major fluids like trans, diff, and brake fluid. Im afraid to ask what dealer it was...

KillaIS250

iTrader: (1)

^ Wait ....OP is in CA. I wanna know what dealer it was

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

that's why it's impossible.

Unless you'd consider changing like 10-15% of the fluid a "change"

You can't get the other 85-90% out to change it.

iRock

iTrader: (12)

Wow I'm glad my dealer don't pull this crap!

calvin2376

iTrader: (2)

1) If you haven't read on here yet, here it is: NEVER get the __k service. Instead, check your scheduled maintenance guide, check what's actually necessary, and ask for ONLY THOSE SERVICES individually and separately. A dealer might quote you $500 if you ask for the 30k service. But if you check your maintenance guide, all you need is an oil change, filters change, and brake fluid flush, all of which adds up to about $170. If you'd called and asked the dealer for an oil change, a brake fluid flush, and filters change, they'd have quoted you $50 for the oil change, $100 for brake fluid, and $20 for the filters (all give or take a bit).

So no, you NEVER want to get a dealer's quoted "full __k service", because you'll get gouged. They'll charge you 10 times more than the true service costs, and they'll justify the rest as labor for inspections and test drives that are unnecessary.

2) I would absolutely call Lexus corporate about this and report the dealer for misleading practices and trying to defraud consumers. Some things car dealers pull stem just from stupidity. But some things are downright calculated and directed toward ripping off customers. This is the latter.

This dealer knows your car's transmission fluid shouldn't be changed and in fact CAN'T be changed. It's never called for anywhere in the service manual, especially not at 8k miles. I would venture to guess NO Lexus model calls for a transmission fluid change at 8k miles, so this isn't an innocent mix-up.

These are the kinds of things dealers need to be reported for. If I were in your position I would absolutely call Lexus corporate and report them. Express your displeasure over how you've been treated and duped, and explain that you'd like your next service covered for free at a different dealer. My bet is you'll get it.

Slammer1

I have never seen a recommended interval for automatic trans fluid change, and was told by my local dealer "That it would be better if I didn't mess with it", when I asked about fluid type and capacity. My IS350 had 75K on it when I made that call. Report the dealership, as well as the service advisor that made this recommendation.

RTIS250

iTrader: (9)

Well, then technically its impossible on ANY automatic transmission... cause you can never drain the torque converter, all you get is whats in the pan. Which is fine if you change the fluid every 30k.. over the life of the transmission, you keep the fluid pretty fresh. Just not the case with the 2IS, as the recommended interval is so high..

fbarbarosa

It is good to know that I am not out of my mind. Thanks guys.

I called another dealer and the service writer said an oil and filter change would do it. Price about $60. The top price for a 15kmi service was $160. Transmission fluid and differential oil not normally replaced.

The $360 package at Concord Lexus also includes a wheel balance, a new air filter, a car wash, and a road test. An oil/filter change is $59 and includes a car wash. The wheel balance appears to be the only real value added item

Lexus of Concord has some fine print on their posted maintenance schedules to say that theirs “are specially designed to meet the demands of the Bay Area Road and weather conditions”. A footnote says that transmission fluid change excludes models with world standard fluids: very clever!

San Francisco Bay Area roads are starting to fall apart because we need the money to pay higher salaries to the prison guards, but the weather here is mild; a few days top 100F and we get a tiny bit of snow every 10 years. I can't picture what this dealer would propose in Chicago or Fargo.

I think that I will phone the corporate office. This kind of sharp dealing leaves a bad taste and damages the Lexus image.

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

Not at all.

First, on most other/older cars even a simple pan drain usually got a significantly larger % of fluid out than it does on the 2IS... but even without that you can hook up a fluid exchange machine to the cooling lines on the transmission and get close to all of the fluid out.

You can't do that on the 2IS, since there's no transmission fluid in those lines.

fbarbarosa

UPDATE:

The dealership changed the oil and filter and did a “courtesy inspection” and that is what I paid for. The inspection did not find any action items. They gave me a loaner and filled the gas tank on my car. However, they wanted me to return the loaner with a full tank or pay them $50; still it was a good deal. I am not clear however if they would have given me a loaner if they knew I was going to decline the full service.

When I drove in this morning there were so many welcoming people (three or four) that I wondered if my call to Lexus had already been passed on to them.

The service writer confirmed that all Lexus models for the past several years have “world fluid” and that it was very unlikely that anyone would bring in an older car for 15k service. He also explained that if a transmission fluid change actually were required the cost would jump from $360 quoted to me would jump to $490. I don’t know about you, but I would be driving an Acura or Infinity if the Lexus actually did need a $120 transmission fluid change every 15,000 miles.

This is where it stands. Concord Lexus is the easiest dealer for me to use. The facilities and staff are always very nice. The staff have always seemed committed to providing excellent service. I will give the service writer top marks when I get the satisfaction survey.

Nevertheless, I will fuss about the maintenance list that they use. It I loaded with unnecessary items and interpreting the footnotes requires that the customer understand the differences in transmissions.

I have no evidence, and make no accusations, but could it be that some owners just buy the whole package because the items are on the checklist and they assume that the factory recommends/requires them? Could it be that some have paid for transmission fluid because the service writer was the person who tried to sell the package to me?

When that dealer changes its maintenance list I will believe that Lexus is really committed to good and honest service. Of course my opinion can be purchased.

Jeff Lange

iTrader: (1)

Most Toyota/Lexus models only ever call for a simple drain and fill for the transmission, when you do this over the life of the car, it keeps some new fluid cycling through the transmission over its life. When Toyota/Lexus does call for a "fluid change" in any of their models, they are only referring to a drain and fill.

You are correct though, most of them keep a higher percentage of fluid in the pan (typically closer to 30% fluid). Plus, if you really want to, you can always flush through the cooler lines, which the 2IS doesn't have (it has coolant running to the transmission, instead of ATF running up to the radiator, or a separate air cooler).

Basically, there's no way to change a substantial portion of the 2IS transmission fluid, just a "drain and fill" which will not change much of the fluid, and changing more is physically impossible without removing the transmission.

As per the owner's manual, drain and fill is listed as:

IS350 RWD: 1.7L
IS250 RWD: 1.5L
ISx50 AWD: 2.7L

Which, as was stated is a pretty small amount of what its capacity is:

IS350 RWD: 7.9L
IS250 RWD: 7.5L
ISx50 AWD: 9.4L

That works out to (percentage-wise) the following amount of fluid changed:

IS350 RWD: 21.5%
IS250 RWD: 20.0%
ISx50 AWD: 28.7%

That being said, Lexus Canada does include changing the transmission fluid as part of the maintenance to be done on the 2IS (depending on year), I know Lexus USA doesn't, but Lexus Canada does more maintenance due to cold weather (we always use the "extreme conditions" schedule).

So while changing all of the fluid is physically impossible, changing a small amount of it is possible, and is something some dealers do, and in some places (like Canada) it is included on the scheduled maintenance, and how much fluid gets changed isn't actually that much less than older transmissions. You just can't do a full flush, which has never been a part of the scheduled maintenance on older Toyota/Lexus transmissions either, it's always been a drain & fill, doing a flush was "extra" and something dealers tried to sell customers.

Jeff

fbarbarosa

That is it. Notice what is not there, no promise of corporate review for example or going to the dealership's owners, no interest in promoting practices that are more ethical. In effect, where profit is involved criminal is out, but sharp dealing, misleading offers and poor ethics is in.

I understand that dealers want a maximum return from service and repair work. I also understand that what Lexus of Concord is doing is may not be a criminal or civil wrong. Nevertheless, it is at the very best a poor and deliberately misleading practice.

If my local library can winkle out the name of the name and address of a top manager in the Lexus division, I will send them a snail mail and copy of the schedule. Sometimes going high helps but I will not hold my breath.

Would I buy another Lexus? I do not know. I have owned a number of different marks over the years VW, Porsche, Buick, Pontiac, Nissan, Acura, and Lexus and had repair work done by many dealers and independents in four states. I have seen all levels of sales and service from the exceptionally good to the horribly negligent. Perhaps the dealers who serviced our Maximas were the worst. In the end though Nissan made it right, and sent me a hefty rebate on my second Maxima.

In this case the remedy is not money it is for Lexus of Concord to change the service schedule to remove the services never/not performed, and to clearly distinguish the factory items from the dealer extras, much as they do on the new car price stickers. If the items are optional at extra cost or at no cost, they should clearly say so.

I think that Lexus is a good car line, but not all dealers are as good. I would have recommended Lexus of Concord, but for this little chisel. If they change it I will recommend them. If not then I suggest Lexus of Anywhere else or an independent for service. New car sales yes, parts yes, but not service.

I say that even though with the loaner and the gas fillup the net cost of the service was near zero. But if I hadn't been alert the cost would have been >$300.

Because they are so close to home I might continue to take the car their for warranty and some scheduled maintenance, but I look up the factory schedule before hand.

I thank everyone who posted because I now much more about Lexus transmission fluid service.

If corporate Lexus or the dealership owners get back to me, I will post their response.