View Poll Results: What brand of gas do you like most for your IS
Chevron
8
53.33%
Shell
6
40.00%
Sunoco
0
0%
BP
2
13.33%
Exxon/Mobil
2
13.33%
What ever is cheapest
1
6.67%
Any top tier station
0
0%
Oh no, not another poll - who cares
0
0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll
Favorite Gas for your IS?
11-07-09, 03:10 PM
#61
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11-07-09, 03:49 PM
#62
Basic wrong stuff in the case of both your claims.
If you'd care to explain how higher octane gives you "more power" I'm sure it's hilarious though.
And being programmed for 91 is why it says to use 91 in the owners manual, and why the ECU will be forced to pull timing if you use less. (and why you'll get 0 benefit from using more)
11-07-09, 06:55 PM
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Basic wrong stuff in the case of both your claims.
If you'd care to explain how higher octane gives you "more power" I'm sure it's hilarious though.
And being programmed for 91 is why it says to use 91 in the owners manual, and why the ECU will be forced to pull timing if you use less. (and why you'll get 0 benefit from using more)
If you'd care to explain how higher octane gives you "more power" I'm sure it's hilarious though.
And being programmed for 91 is why it says to use 91 in the owners manual, and why the ECU will be forced to pull timing if you use less. (and why you'll get 0 benefit from using more)
Wrong again.
I just remembered somebody I knew with a 350Z that went to the track with 100+ octane gas and had the fastest 1/4 times he had ever ran by a huge margin. That proves it DOES make a difference.
Also, I don't remember exactly what octane they sell, but we do have one gas station in the area that sells 100+ octane gas. Why would they offer it if it didn't make a difference?
They sell it b/c of the "placebo effect?"
That alone proves that you don't know what you're talking about. Give it a rest, you have no clue what you are talking about.
Last edited by rob stolen; 11-07-09 at 06:59 PM.
11-07-09, 08:14 PM
#64
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From wikipedia: ya learn something new every day...
Higher octane ratings correlate to higher activation energies. Activation energy is the amount of energy necessary to start a chemical reaction. Since higher octane fuels have higher activation energies, it is less likely that a given compression will cause detonation.
It might seem odd that fuels with higher octane ratings are used in more powerful engines, since such fuels explode less easily. However, an explosion is not desired in an internal combustion engine. An explosion will cause the pressure in the cylinder to rise far beyond the cylinder's design limits, before the force of the expanding gases can be absorbed by the piston traveling downward. This actually reduces power output, because much of the energy of combustion is absorbed as strain and heat in parts of the engine,[citation needed] rather than being converted to torque at the crankshaft.
A fuel with a higher octane rating can be run at a higher compression ratio without detonating. Compression is directly related to power (see engine tuning), so engines that require higher octane usually deliver more motive power. Engine power is a function of the fuel, as well as the engine design, and is related to octane rating of the fuel. Power is limited by the maximum amount of fuel-air mixture that can be forced into the combustion chamber. When the throttle is partially open, only a small fraction of the total available power is produced because the manifold is operating at pressures far below atmospheric. In this case, the octane requirement is far lower than when the throttle is opened fully and the manifold pressure increases to atmospheric pressure, or higher in the case of supercharged or turbocharged engines.
Many high-performance engines are designed to operate with a high maximum compression, and thus demand high-octane premium gasoline. A common misconception is that power output or fuel mileage can be improved by burning higher octane fuel than a particular engine was designed for. The power output of an engine depends in part on the energy density of its fuel, but similar fuels with different octane ratings have similar density. Since switching to a higher octane fuel does not add any more hydrocarbon content or oxygen, the engine cannot produce more power.
However, burning fuel with a lower octane rating than required by the engine often reduces power output and efficiency one way or another. If the engine begins to detonate (knock), that reduces power and efficiency for the reasons stated above. Many modern car engines feature a knock sensor – a small piezoelectric microphone which detects knock, and then sends a signal to the engine control unit to retard the ignition timing. Retarding the ignition timing reduces the tendency to detonate, but also reduces power output and fuel efficiency.
Most fuel stations have two storage tanks (even those offering 3 or 4 octane levels), and you are given a mixture of the higher and lower octane fuel. Purchasing premium simply means more fuel from the higher octane tank. The detergents in the fuel are the same.
Higher octane ratings correlate to higher activation energies. Activation energy is the amount of energy necessary to start a chemical reaction. Since higher octane fuels have higher activation energies, it is less likely that a given compression will cause detonation.
It might seem odd that fuels with higher octane ratings are used in more powerful engines, since such fuels explode less easily. However, an explosion is not desired in an internal combustion engine. An explosion will cause the pressure in the cylinder to rise far beyond the cylinder's design limits, before the force of the expanding gases can be absorbed by the piston traveling downward. This actually reduces power output, because much of the energy of combustion is absorbed as strain and heat in parts of the engine,[citation needed] rather than being converted to torque at the crankshaft.
A fuel with a higher octane rating can be run at a higher compression ratio without detonating. Compression is directly related to power (see engine tuning), so engines that require higher octane usually deliver more motive power. Engine power is a function of the fuel, as well as the engine design, and is related to octane rating of the fuel. Power is limited by the maximum amount of fuel-air mixture that can be forced into the combustion chamber. When the throttle is partially open, only a small fraction of the total available power is produced because the manifold is operating at pressures far below atmospheric. In this case, the octane requirement is far lower than when the throttle is opened fully and the manifold pressure increases to atmospheric pressure, or higher in the case of supercharged or turbocharged engines.
Many high-performance engines are designed to operate with a high maximum compression, and thus demand high-octane premium gasoline. A common misconception is that power output or fuel mileage can be improved by burning higher octane fuel than a particular engine was designed for. The power output of an engine depends in part on the energy density of its fuel, but similar fuels with different octane ratings have similar density. Since switching to a higher octane fuel does not add any more hydrocarbon content or oxygen, the engine cannot produce more power.
However, burning fuel with a lower octane rating than required by the engine often reduces power output and efficiency one way or another. If the engine begins to detonate (knock), that reduces power and efficiency for the reasons stated above. Many modern car engines feature a knock sensor – a small piezoelectric microphone which detects knock, and then sends a signal to the engine control unit to retard the ignition timing. Retarding the ignition timing reduces the tendency to detonate, but also reduces power output and fuel efficiency.
Most fuel stations have two storage tanks (even those offering 3 or 4 octane levels), and you are given a mixture of the higher and lower octane fuel. Purchasing premium simply means more fuel from the higher octane tank. The detergents in the fuel are the same.
11-07-09, 09:26 PM
#65
Well argued.
I know a guy who once won $10,000 playing craps wearing red shoes, when he'd previously lost money in black shoes, this PROVES that red shoes cause you to win at craps!
Also, I don't remember exactly what octane they sell, but we do have one gas station in the area that sells 100+ octane gas. Why would they offer it if it didn't make a difference?
They sell it b/c of the "placebo effect?"
That alone proves that you don't know what you're talking about. Give it a rest, you have no clue what you are talking about.
They sell it b/c of the "placebo effect?"
That alone proves that you don't know what you're talking about. Give it a rest, you have no clue what you are talking about.
cadfael_tes last post explains why they sell it, and what it actually does, and when you'd want to use it.
"to add power" isn't on the list though.
Lemme help you out since I suspect his post was too long and technical for you, here's the important part of it:
A common misconception is that power output or fuel mileage can be improved by burning higher octane fuel than a particular engine was designed for. The power output of an engine depends in part on the energy density of its fuel, but similar fuels with different octane ratings have similar density. Since switching to a higher octane fuel does not add any more hydrocarbon content or oxygen, the engine cannot produce more power.
There are other things you can do to a car that actually increase it's power output, and in some of those cases using higher octane fuel now becomes neccesary so that those OTHER things you did don't destroy the engine. But in no case is the octane rating adding power... and in no case does running higher octane than required without changing anything else do anything for you except waste your money.
For a 2IS the required octane is 91. Unless you change something else on the car you'll get nothing out of higher except a lighter wallet.
Last edited by Kurtz; 11-07-09 at 09:31 PM.
11-08-09, 11:03 AM
#66
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From wikipedia: ya learn something new every day...
Higher octane ratings correlate to higher activation energies. Activation energy is the amount of energy necessary to start a chemical reaction. Since higher octane fuels have higher activation energies, it is less likely that a given compression will cause detonation.
It might seem odd that fuels with higher octane ratings are used in more powerful engines, since such fuels explode less easily. However, an explosion is not desired in an internal combustion engine. An explosion will cause the pressure in the cylinder to rise far beyond the cylinder's design limits, before the force of the expanding gases can be absorbed by the piston traveling downward. This actually reduces power output, because much of the energy of combustion is absorbed as strain and heat in parts of the engine,[citation needed] rather than being converted to torque at the crankshaft.
A fuel with a higher octane rating can be run at a higher compression ratio without detonating. Compression is directly related to power (see engine tuning), so engines that require higher octane usually deliver more motive power. Engine power is a function of the fuel, as well as the engine design, and is related to octane rating of the fuel. Power is limited by the maximum amount of fuel-air mixture that can be forced into the combustion chamber. When the throttle is partially open, only a small fraction of the total available power is produced because the manifold is operating at pressures far below atmospheric. In this case, the octane requirement is far lower than when the throttle is opened fully and the manifold pressure increases to atmospheric pressure, or higher in the case of supercharged or turbocharged engines.
Many high-performance engines are designed to operate with a high maximum compression, and thus demand high-octane premium gasoline. A common misconception is that power output or fuel mileage can be improved by burning higher octane fuel than a particular engine was designed for. The power output of an engine depends in part on the energy density of its fuel, but similar fuels with different octane ratings have similar density. Since switching to a higher octane fuel does not add any more hydrocarbon content or oxygen, the engine cannot produce more power.
However, burning fuel with a lower octane rating than required by the engine often reduces power output and efficiency one way or another. If the engine begins to detonate (knock), that reduces power and efficiency for the reasons stated above. Many modern car engines feature a knock sensor – a small piezoelectric microphone which detects knock, and then sends a signal to the engine control unit to retard the ignition timing. Retarding the ignition timing reduces the tendency to detonate, but also reduces power output and fuel efficiency.
Most fuel stations have two storage tanks (even those offering 3 or 4 octane levels), and you are given a mixture of the higher and lower octane fuel. Purchasing premium simply means more fuel from the higher octane tank. The detergents in the fuel are the same.
Higher octane ratings correlate to higher activation energies. Activation energy is the amount of energy necessary to start a chemical reaction. Since higher octane fuels have higher activation energies, it is less likely that a given compression will cause detonation.
It might seem odd that fuels with higher octane ratings are used in more powerful engines, since such fuels explode less easily. However, an explosion is not desired in an internal combustion engine. An explosion will cause the pressure in the cylinder to rise far beyond the cylinder's design limits, before the force of the expanding gases can be absorbed by the piston traveling downward. This actually reduces power output, because much of the energy of combustion is absorbed as strain and heat in parts of the engine,[citation needed] rather than being converted to torque at the crankshaft.
A fuel with a higher octane rating can be run at a higher compression ratio without detonating. Compression is directly related to power (see engine tuning), so engines that require higher octane usually deliver more motive power. Engine power is a function of the fuel, as well as the engine design, and is related to octane rating of the fuel. Power is limited by the maximum amount of fuel-air mixture that can be forced into the combustion chamber. When the throttle is partially open, only a small fraction of the total available power is produced because the manifold is operating at pressures far below atmospheric. In this case, the octane requirement is far lower than when the throttle is opened fully and the manifold pressure increases to atmospheric pressure, or higher in the case of supercharged or turbocharged engines.
Many high-performance engines are designed to operate with a high maximum compression, and thus demand high-octane premium gasoline. A common misconception is that power output or fuel mileage can be improved by burning higher octane fuel than a particular engine was designed for. The power output of an engine depends in part on the energy density of its fuel, but similar fuels with different octane ratings have similar density. Since switching to a higher octane fuel does not add any more hydrocarbon content or oxygen, the engine cannot produce more power.
However, burning fuel with a lower octane rating than required by the engine often reduces power output and efficiency one way or another. If the engine begins to detonate (knock), that reduces power and efficiency for the reasons stated above. Many modern car engines feature a knock sensor – a small piezoelectric microphone which detects knock, and then sends a signal to the engine control unit to retard the ignition timing. Retarding the ignition timing reduces the tendency to detonate, but also reduces power output and fuel efficiency.
Most fuel stations have two storage tanks (even those offering 3 or 4 octane levels), and you are given a mixture of the higher and lower octane fuel. Purchasing premium simply means more fuel from the higher octane tank. The detergents in the fuel are the same.
Wikipedia?
You mean the reference where the general population write the articles and make changes anytime? Get out of here with that garbage.
Do a Google search for Wikipedia. What does it say right below?
"Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit."
Can't believe Wikipedia was referenced. Please, get real.
I can paste something from the internet too that actually is real.
I think it's time for YOU to learn something new today.
76 Competition 110 Racing Gasoline is a high octane, high quality leaded fuel designed exclusively for racing applications at sanctioned racing events. It has an octane rating (AKI) of 110 and a Motor Octane Number (MON)of 106 .It is an approved fuel for competition by all major sanctioning bodies.
76 Competiton 110 Racing Gasoline is the "Official Fuel Of NASCAR",and has been for over 45 years . It has been tested in engines with compression ratios up to 16 to 1 operating at 6,000 to 9,000 rpm .
Description
76 Competition 110 Racing Gasoline is formulated from high octane gasoline blend stock and selected additives. It is highly resistant to detonation under high speed , high output conditions . Its low vapor pressure quality provides protection against vapor lock. Mid- range volatility is carefully controlled to give excellent throttle response and acceleration . The composition of this fuel is carefully controlled to deliver consistent , reproducible quality ,allowing precise engine tuning for maximum performance on the track .
76 Competition 110 Racing Gasoline burns cleanly , leaving little or no deposits, Allowing maximum engine power.A phosphorus additive controls surface ignition . The high quality stocks used in this gasoline make it very stable and resistant to gum formation. This assures cleaner carburetors , intake manifolds , and valves. A detergent additive further helps to keep carburetors clean. Antioxidants and corrosion inhibitors promote stability and longer shelf life. This gasoline does not contain any alcohols or oxygenates .
TYPICAL APPLICATIONS
All race car events where gasoline is used as a fuel.
Gasoline - fuel race vehicles such as :
* Drag racing cars
* Formula cars
* Sports cars
* Stock cars
* Motorcycles
CAUTION : FOR OFF-HIGHWAY USE AT SANCTIONED RACING EVENTS ONLY
OUTSTANDING FEATURES
* 110 AKI Octane Number
* 106 Motor Octane Number
* Contains no alcohols or oxygenates
* Low vapor pressure for protection against vapor locks
* Controlled mid-range volatility for excellent throttle response and acceleration
* Detergency to keep carburetors clean
* Phosphorus additive to control surface ignition
* Resists gum formation
* Burns cleanly to resist deposit buildup
* Controlled composition and reproducible quality permits precise engine tuning for maximum performance on the track.
* Oxidation and corrosion inhibited for longer shelf life¹
(¹) Note : 76 Competition 110 Racing Gasoline should be stored in a cool place in metal containers only . It contains components that are sensitive to sunlight.Plastic jugs , especially clear plastic jugs , are not acceptable for storage.
Yes, you remember something, about "a guy you knew", with a totally different car, that you provide no source or details for, and that "proves" your completely incorrect "point"
Well argued.
I know a guy who once won $10,000 playing craps wearing red shoes, when he'd previously lost money in black shoes, this PROVES that red shoes cause you to win at craps!
No, it proves you don't even know what the word "octane" means, since you obviously have no idea why it's even sold, and are under the bizarre impression it's because it "adds power"
cadfael_tes last post explains why they sell it, and what it actually does, and when you'd want to use it.
"to add power" isn't on the list though.
Lemme help you out since I suspect his post was too long and technical for you, here's the important part of it:
There are other things you can do to a car that actually increase it's power output, and in some of those cases using higher octane fuel now becomes neccesary so that those OTHER things you did don't destroy the engine. But in no case is the octane rating adding power... and in no case does running higher octane than required without changing anything else do anything for you except waste your money.
For a 2IS the required octane is 91. Unless you change something else on the car you'll get nothing out of higher except a lighter wallet.
Well argued.
I know a guy who once won $10,000 playing craps wearing red shoes, when he'd previously lost money in black shoes, this PROVES that red shoes cause you to win at craps!
No, it proves you don't even know what the word "octane" means, since you obviously have no idea why it's even sold, and are under the bizarre impression it's because it "adds power"
cadfael_tes last post explains why they sell it, and what it actually does, and when you'd want to use it.
"to add power" isn't on the list though.
Lemme help you out since I suspect his post was too long and technical for you, here's the important part of it:
There are other things you can do to a car that actually increase it's power output, and in some of those cases using higher octane fuel now becomes neccesary so that those OTHER things you did don't destroy the engine. But in no case is the octane rating adding power... and in no case does running higher octane than required without changing anything else do anything for you except waste your money.
For a 2IS the required octane is 91. Unless you change something else on the car you'll get nothing out of higher except a lighter wallet.
I'll give this one to you too. Enjoy while you're laying some manure on your farm in North Carolina.
Do you see where it says the applications are for:
*Sport Cars*
Well maybe you didn't make it that far being taught by hillibillies, so I've underlined it for you. Oh and please remember, put one strap on at a time when wearing your overalls.
76 Competition 110 Racing Gasoline is a high octane, high quality leaded fuel designed exclusively for racing applications at sanctioned racing events. It has an octane rating (AKI) of 110 and a Motor Octane Number (MON)of 106 .It is an approved fuel for competition by all major sanctioning bodies.
76 Competition 110 Racing Gasoline is the "Official Fuel Of NASCAR",and has been for over 45 years . It has been tested in engines with compression ratios up to 16 to 1 operating at 6,000 to 9,000 rpm .
Description
76 Competition 110 Racing Gasoline is formulated from high octane gasoline blend stock and selected additives. It is highly resistant to detonation under high speed , high output conditions . Its low vapor pressure quality provides protection against vapor lock. Mid- range volatility is carefully controlled to give excellent throttle response and acceleration . The composition of this fuel is carefully controlled to deliver consistent , reproducible quality ,allowing precise engine tuning for maximum performance on the track .
76 Competition 110 Racing Gasoline burns cleanly , leaving little or no deposits, Allowing maximum engine power.A phosphorus additive controls surface ignition . The high quality stocks used in this gasoline make it very stable and resistant to gum formation. This assures cleaner carburetors , intake manifolds , and valves. A detergent additive further helps to keep carburetors clean. Antioxidants and corrosion inhibitors promote stability and longer shelf life. This gasoline does not contain any alcohols or oxygenates .
TYPICAL APPLICATIONS
All race car events where gasoline is used as a fuel.
Gasoline - fuel race vehicles such as :
* Drag racing cars
* Formula cars
* Sports cars
* Stock cars
* Motorcycles
CAUTION : FOR OFF-HIGHWAY USE AT SANCTIONED RACING EVENTS ONLY
OUTSTANDING FEATURES
* 110 AKI Octane Number
* 106 Motor Octane Number
* Contains no alcohols or oxygenates
* Low vapor pressure for protection against vapor locks
* Controlled mid-range volatility for excellent throttle response and acceleration
* Detergency to keep carburetors clean
* Phosphorus additive to control surface ignition
* Resists gum formation
* Burns cleanly to resist deposit buildup
* Controlled composition and reproducible quality permits precise engine tuning for maximum performance on the track.
* Oxidation and corrosion inhibited for longer shelf life¹
(¹) Note : 76 Competition 110 Racing Gasoline should be stored in a cool place in metal containers only . It contains components that are sensitive to sunlight.Plastic jugs , especially clear plastic jugs , are not acceptable for storage.
Last edited by rob stolen; 11-08-09 at 12:38 PM.
11-08-09, 01:08 PM
#68
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i only use the most expensive because I know thats the best..why would it cost more if it wasnt the best. If Bose made gas, it would be like a concert hall in my engine. Sometimes I use Shell tho, because once I used shell and the checkout girl was flirting with me, so you know thats some good stuff. Other times I'll try BP, but I got diarrhea from the burrito I ate so I dont trust that brand.
11-08-09, 03:12 PM
#69
rob stolen,
Do you have anything that isn't from the marketing material of folks selling gas?
Even better, do you have any actual scientific explaination for how higher octane gas, by itself, would in any way add power to a car?
Any clue at all?
Even the slightest idea that you can explain?
No?
Didn't think so.
Hint: it's because it can't.
Anyone claiming it does doesn't even understand what the word "octane" means.
Do you have anything that isn't from the marketing material of folks selling gas?
Even better, do you have any actual scientific explaination for how higher octane gas, by itself, would in any way add power to a car?
Any clue at all?
Even the slightest idea that you can explain?
No?
Didn't think so.
Hint: it's because it can't.
Anyone claiming it does doesn't even understand what the word "octane" means.
11-08-09, 03:36 PM
#70
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Wrong again.
I just remembered somebody I knew with a 350Z that went to the track with 100+ octane gas and had the fastest 1/4 times he had ever ran by a huge margin. That proves it DOES make a difference.
Also, I don't remember exactly what octane they sell, but we do have one gas station in the area that sells 100+ octane gas. Why would they offer it if it didn't make a difference?
They sell it b/c of the "placebo effect?"
That alone proves that you don't know what you're talking about. Give it a rest, you have no clue what you are talking about.
I just remembered somebody I knew with a 350Z that went to the track with 100+ octane gas and had the fastest 1/4 times he had ever ran by a huge margin. That proves it DOES make a difference.
Also, I don't remember exactly what octane they sell, but we do have one gas station in the area that sells 100+ octane gas. Why would they offer it if it didn't make a difference?
They sell it b/c of the "placebo effect?"
That alone proves that you don't know what you're talking about. Give it a rest, you have no clue what you are talking about.
hight oct gas does make difference.
+1
11-08-09, 04:00 PM
#72
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Basic wrong stuff in the case of both your claims.
If you'd care to explain how higher octane gives you "more power" I'm sure it's hilarious though.
And being programmed for 91 is why it says to use 91 in the owners manual, and why the ECU will be forced to pull timing if you use less. (and why you'll get 0 benefit from using more)
If you'd care to explain how higher octane gives you "more power" I'm sure it's hilarious though.
And being programmed for 91 is why it says to use 91 in the owners manual, and why the ECU will be forced to pull timing if you use less. (and why you'll get 0 benefit from using more)
lol someone does read manual
but that someone doesnt actually engineer the engine.
11-08-09, 09:23 PM
#74
To your wallet, sure.
To your engine, if it's not modified to require it in some way, not even slightly.
Again, if you understood what the word octane even meant this would be self-evident to you.
Hint: it has nothing, at all, to do with adding engine power.
But again, if you have any specific scientific explanation for something that has nothing inherent to do engine power can "add power" to the engine, by all means explain it.
We're looking for an actual physical or chemical mechanism by which this happens, not parroting what the marketing brochure for racing gas says about how Fast And Furious it'll make your car.
To your engine, if it's not modified to require it in some way, not even slightly.
Again, if you understood what the word octane even meant this would be self-evident to you.
Hint: it has nothing, at all, to do with adding engine power.
But again, if you have any specific scientific explanation for something that has nothing inherent to do engine power can "add power" to the engine, by all means explain it.
We're looking for an actual physical or chemical mechanism by which this happens, not parroting what the marketing brochure for racing gas says about how Fast And Furious it'll make your car.
11-09-09, 05:52 AM
#75
I ran out of gas(91octane) at THE PURSUIT(irwindale dragstrip) while racing, and the only gas they had was 110 octane, and I consistently ran .3-.5 faster then any of my previous runs.
(Don't mean to get off the topic of favorite gas, but my 2cents of the on the on going discussion)
(Don't mean to get off the topic of favorite gas, but my 2cents of the on the on going discussion)
In what car, and what were your times (posted timeslips before and after on the same day would be nice).
Given that all the fastest known NA 2ISes in the world ran their times on regular pump gas, and you as the previous posters fail to offer any explaination for how or why higher octane fuel, which doesn't in and of itself contain any additional energy or in any way enhance power, could produce more power I suspect your story won't end up being quite as illustrative as you suspect.
(BTW, assuming this was even in a 2IS, I sure hope you checked if the fuel was leaded or not... a lot of race fuel sold at tracks contains lead, which will do significant damage to a few components on your car)