3rd Generation IS350 NEEDS to be Forced Induction
08-03-09, 06:01 PM
#16
honestly... Fsport is jus a waste of money lol its nothing special wat so ever its pretty much copying all the other aftermarket items that are availble for our cars and then jus saying its made by lexus = gonna cost more $$$ for the same shi,t u can buy thats not fsport branded
08-03-09, 11:07 PM
#17
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honestly... Fsport is jus a waste of money lol its nothing special wat so ever its pretty much copying all the other aftermarket items that are availble for our cars and then jus saying its made by lexus = gonna cost more $$$ for the same shi,t u can buy thats not fsport branded
08-04-09, 12:14 AM
#18
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If, and I do me IF, Lexus went FI, they would likely drop the 3.5L down to a 3.0L and the HP output would likely be very similar to the current IS 350 (granted it could be modded). Now here is why I think that.
The line up would be unbalanced. You would have the 250 (or 300) pulling prob 200-240 HP, the 350 FI would pull prop 350-375 (if done right), then you have the ISF pulling (currently) 400. This would put the 350 and the F too close together and futher shrink the F market. So, now they would be forced to up the F to at least 450. Yes, 450 is nice, but this level sports sedan is a very niche market with a lot of competition. With fuel economy a rising concern, the sales for the F would likely decline and Lexus might pull the F. We all remember the Supra. Great car, but the market was way too small and that = low profit; let's not forget, Lexus is still trying to make money.
The line up would be unbalanced. You would have the 250 (or 300) pulling prob 200-240 HP, the 350 FI would pull prop 350-375 (if done right), then you have the ISF pulling (currently) 400. This would put the 350 and the F too close together and futher shrink the F market. So, now they would be forced to up the F to at least 450. Yes, 450 is nice, but this level sports sedan is a very niche market with a lot of competition. With fuel economy a rising concern, the sales for the F would likely decline and Lexus might pull the F. We all remember the Supra. Great car, but the market was way too small and that = low profit; let's not forget, Lexus is still trying to make money.
So wat they need to do is save that extra money, offer the 2gr-fe engine that is in the Camry (3.5l v6 as well just) and supercharge it. It has already been done too btw. Aurion TRD car in australia is basically a Eaton Twin-Vortices TRD supercharger bolted onto a camry v6 engine. That car is putting out 323hp. Thats enough to destory the competition. It doesnt need 350hp!
So by ditching their current line up of engines in their lexuses(2GR-FSE, and 4GR-FSE) and dipping into their toyota line up they will be saving a ton of cash. 3GR-FE (3.0v6) engine will be used in the IS300.
Using the same Lexus engines allover the world (which they arent doing now) will result in even more costs saving. It makes business sense. VW and its platmore sharing and Engine, its the way forward to save money and be lucrative as a car manufacturer. VW is closing the gap on Toyota. Save and make money on the lower end, Use the higher low output models to sell the brand
The IS-F no doubt can reach 460 hp easily (5.5 litre anyone?), thereby even furthering the gap. now between the IS35 and the IS-F there will be 140hp difference that cannot be made up in simple aftermarket parts) I think a big mistake on the BMW's part is that a chipped 335 is as fast as an M3. cannablising sales.
All-in-all, this is just not practical from a marketing perspective. "Tuners" make up a very small portion of the Lexus sales. At 40k ish for the current 350, the market is geared towards working professionals that make a decent salary, not tuners. If Lexus tries too hard to push into the Tuner market, the MSRP will go up and the IS will start to cost the same as the 3 series. A huge marketing advantage for the IS is that it is a great car that costs less than BMW and MB. If you rise the price, those people that chose Lexus over BMW for the cost savings might start to reconsider.
The IS-F would still be wayyy more powerful and geared towards the performace oriented market (not the tuners). This car will come out of the factory all lean and mean. And by the engine sharing that i have proposed, bigger economies of scale will result in a cheaper car, heck they can offer the car cheaper than they do now (kick hyundai while they are still trying to get up lol. One should never under estimate the competition).
Man F-Sport blows, the only thing worth (bang for ur performace buck) getting in the line up is the sway bars.
Last edited by ndk83; 08-04-09 at 12:39 AM.
08-04-09, 12:27 AM
#19
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honestly... Fsport is jus a waste of money lol its nothing special wat so ever its pretty much copying all the other aftermarket items that are availble for our cars and then jus saying its made by lexus = gonna cost more $$$ for the same shi,t u can buy thats not fsport branded
LOL at least you will especially know how much the value of BBKs and rims are when you see an f-sport equipped is350 thats what matters
hahaha i guess in your liking go big or go home? 
but seriously lots of is fans like f-sport still
I guess you should get replica body kits and so on that fit the same way as authentic ones since they are 2-3x cheaper then
Last edited by DaKi3241; 08-04-09 at 12:44 AM.
08-04-09, 02:54 AM
#20
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I think Lexus has had a roaring success with the 2IS line and I can't image them doing it much differently.
The 250 sells very strong because it's an affordable Lexus. As someone else pointed out, the average Joe Shmoe does not care about 0-60 numbers or racing around. Lexus is a business first and foremost and they need sales to make profits.
The 350 gives a ton of power for everyday drivers that demand some oomph. Fuel economy is still good with all this power. Anything above the 350 numbers is going to cost and that reduces the IS's appeal.
For the amount of power the IS-F has, I think it's a bargain.
About the only thing Lexus can improve upon is perhaps a bit more power out of the next base IS. With today's technology, they should be able to raise it a bit w/o destroying the attractive entry price or decent fuel economy.
The 250 sells very strong because it's an affordable Lexus. As someone else pointed out, the average Joe Shmoe does not care about 0-60 numbers or racing around. Lexus is a business first and foremost and they need sales to make profits.
The 350 gives a ton of power for everyday drivers that demand some oomph. Fuel economy is still good with all this power. Anything above the 350 numbers is going to cost and that reduces the IS's appeal.
For the amount of power the IS-F has, I think it's a bargain.
About the only thing Lexus can improve upon is perhaps a bit more power out of the next base IS. With today's technology, they should be able to raise it a bit w/o destroying the attractive entry price or decent fuel economy.
08-04-09, 03:01 AM
#21
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oh before ranting.. you should also consider the cost of 250s... some people just buy it because it has the 350 looks except for the brakes.. with lower performance and yet they can enjoy the style and luxury at a lower price...
08-04-09, 04:39 AM
#22
The only reason the 335i has a TT is because the IS350 embarrassed the all mighty 3 series and look at the issues the TT has caused in the 335i. Why would Lexus add the complexity and stress of FI to an engine that is every bit as capable as ANY other engine in its class, even today, four years later? All the other cars in this class had to either add FI or displacement to match the Lexus. I think the Lexus 3.5 is STILL the best engine in this class.
I do think 350 hp will be needed to stay competitive in this class. But I think it should be a NA engine.
Koz
I do think 350 hp will be needed to stay competitive in this class. But I think it should be a NA engine.
Koz
08-04-09, 06:47 AM
#23
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Thread Starter
I think Lexus has had a roaring success with the 2IS line and I can't image them doing it much differently.
The 250 sells very strong because it's an affordable Lexus. As someone else pointed out, the average Joe Shmoe does not care about 0-60 numbers or racing around. Lexus is a business first and foremost and they need sales to make profits.
The 350 gives a ton of power for everyday drivers that demand some oomph. Fuel economy is still good with all this power. Anything above the 350 numbers is going to cost and that reduces the IS's appeal.
For the amount of power the IS-F has, I think it's a bargain.
About the only thing Lexus can improve upon is perhaps a bit more power out of the next base IS. With today's technology, they should be able to raise it a bit w/o destroying the attractive entry price or decent fuel economy.
The 250 sells very strong because it's an affordable Lexus. As someone else pointed out, the average Joe Shmoe does not care about 0-60 numbers or racing around. Lexus is a business first and foremost and they need sales to make profits.
The 350 gives a ton of power for everyday drivers that demand some oomph. Fuel economy is still good with all this power. Anything above the 350 numbers is going to cost and that reduces the IS's appeal.
For the amount of power the IS-F has, I think it's a bargain.
About the only thing Lexus can improve upon is perhaps a bit more power out of the next base IS. With today's technology, they should be able to raise it a bit w/o destroying the attractive entry price or decent fuel economy.
The IS300 would be cheaper than IS250. The engine doesnt have that fancy dual port,direct injection. Itll have the same looks, same to marginally better performance. U even get to keep the IS300 monikor which is wat made the IS line famour to beign with. I dont understand how u guys think im propsing toyota get rid of the IS250, thats not wat i said at all, quite teh opposite, i propse ways to improve it
The only reason the 335i has a TT is because the IS350 embarrassed the all mighty 3 series and look at the issues the TT has caused in the 335i. Why would Lexus add the complexity and stress of FI to an engine that is every bit as capable as ANY other engine in its class, even today, four years later? All the other cars in this class had to either add FI or displacement to match the Lexus. I think the Lexus 3.5 is STILL the best engine in this class.
I do think 350 hp will be needed to stay competitive in this class. But I think it should be a NA engine.
Koz
I do think 350 hp will be needed to stay competitive in this class. But I think it should be a NA engine.
Koz
True, although thats not the only reason im sure the competition is why bmw chose to go the FI route. Why should lexus go FI? Well the enviorment!
Bigger displacement cars are moving out, smaller blown engines are on the way in. Toyota needs to start applying induction to their engines for the more upscale cars.Its just more fuel efficient
In terms of power, The performance of a V8 can be easily matched and surpassed with the performace of a twinturbo hybrid v6. If they start mating those turbo/charged engines with hybrids and ull have a killer of a car: silent, powerful AND fuel efficient(kinda).
as for reliability, they can MAKE supercharing reliable. They dont have to offer crazy levels of boost, keep it conservative. Make stronger engines using lighter stronger parts. Put more emphasis on kaizen manufacturing than before. Sides half the time MB and bmw arent reliable because of everything but the engine.
08-04-09, 09:37 AM
#25
[QUOTE=ndk83;4735635]as for reliability, they can MAKE supercharing reliable. They dont have to offer crazy levels of boost, keep it conservative. Make stronger engines using lighter stronger parts. Put more emphasis on kaizen manufacturing than before. QUOTE]
And this increases costs some more. The majority of people that buy Lexus don't care to have these parts and so are wondering why they are paying extra to have them. It's not a smart plan for Lexus to have to sell cars. Toyota and Lexus have a lean business/systems engineering plan. It's how they were able to beat out the American car companies that were producing way more cars in a day than Toyota produced in a year at one point. Toyota built quality cars that were of good value to the consumer and Lexus still continues that, and as does Scion. For them to make it from the factory is a big risk because of the small percentage of the population that would actually go for it. If they were to release an engine next year that they claimed had lighter stronger parts, how many people would trade in their current cars and actually go for that? Probably nowhere near as many people buy the IS250 or even the IS350 each year. It would become a limited edition type thing..
And this increases costs some more. The majority of people that buy Lexus don't care to have these parts and so are wondering why they are paying extra to have them. It's not a smart plan for Lexus to have to sell cars. Toyota and Lexus have a lean business/systems engineering plan. It's how they were able to beat out the American car companies that were producing way more cars in a day than Toyota produced in a year at one point. Toyota built quality cars that were of good value to the consumer and Lexus still continues that, and as does Scion. For them to make it from the factory is a big risk because of the small percentage of the population that would actually go for it. If they were to release an engine next year that they claimed had lighter stronger parts, how many people would trade in their current cars and actually go for that? Probably nowhere near as many people buy the IS250 or even the IS350 each year. It would become a limited edition type thing..
02-03-12, 10:22 PM
#27
there is a reason why Lexus is not just reliable but still have the highest resell values.
How many 2006 cars out there(not talking about super cars) still selling at $20K?
throw a turbo on that thing and you wont get 20K for a 6yrs old car anymore. Plus you dont need turbo/supercharger when you can hang with just N/A
How many 2006 cars out there(not talking about super cars) still selling at $20K?
throw a turbo on that thing and you wont get 20K for a 6yrs old car anymore. Plus you dont need turbo/supercharger when you can hang with just N/A
02-04-12, 10:34 AM
#30
Adding FI to the 3IS lineup would be a headache that Lexus doesn't need. I think modest increases in power while keeping everything NA is the way they'll do it. Maybe something like this:
IS300 - 3.0L V6
IS400 - 4.0L V6
IS F - 5.5L V8
IS300 - 3.0L V6
IS400 - 4.0L V6
IS F - 5.5L V8