kalvano

God, I hate that stupid advice.

I've had more people not buy a car because they listened to that asinine piece of advice, lied to me about not having a trade-in, then leave when we couldn't get to their price. If I had known about the trade-in, I probably could have made the deal work.

CRB

The stock market and the economy are in the tank. Cars that are "new and hot" won't be in six months and the refreshed '09 IS certainly isn't new OR hot, but the deals are always better in June/July.

tex2670

It's common practice. They just swap with a vehicle they have sitting on their lot.

tex2670

He doesn't know shiite--tell him you plan to sell yourself, or your brother-in-law is buying the car, or some other BS.

tex2670

I'm trying to figure out what this means. Either you can make the deal or you can't.

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

It's only stupid advice from the perspective of the car dealer trying to screw ya over.

If you can't offer him the price he wants -after- you have a price on the new car then you can't offer it to him beforehand either without screwing him on the price of the new car (which is what they'll attempt to do if you mention the trade up front)

That's pretty basic math there.

kalvano

The car costs a certain amount. Can't sell it below that, but if we are $500 or $1000 away from a deal, I can probably beat up my used car manager into giving me that much so the bottom line number matches up with what it needs to be.

Yeah, that really sounds like screwing someone over, doesn't it?

tex2670

Right--you can either make the deal or you can't. But, if someone tells you up front they have a trade, you negotiate both ends at the same time, and make them think they got a better deal than they did.

If you quote a sale price that gives you $X of profit, and that's as low as you can possibly go, and then the customer wants to talk trade, if you offer him *exactly* what the dealer will get from the wholesaler, you still get the same profit. If the buyer *thinks* the trade is worth more, even after you lay it out for him, then he will be back, won't he, because there's no way there's a better deal out there?

You are either giving your *best* price, or you still have room in the deal--right? It just sounds like you don't want to have to part with the extra money you may have available in the deal when someone comes back for a second bite with a trade.

kalvano

What do you think, we're a charity? We're in business to not make money?

It's a better proposition for a dealership to put some extra money in a trade-in than to give up profit on the new car because on the trade-in they have a chance to recoup it.


You're missing my point though. The pre-owned manager will put market wholesale value into the trade. But if that overall deal isn't good enough, if we are $500 or $1000 away, and have nowhere else to go on the price of the car, then we can go over what the trade is actually worth in order to get that extra $500 or $1000. That's something I can usually talk a manager into, if it means putting a deal together.

But if I don't know about the trade, and all we are looking at is the price of the car, then all the customer will see is that we are $1000 away and get up and walk out.

You want some better advice? Figure out what you are willing to pay out the door, and go from there. When someone comes in and says "here is my trade, here is the car I want, and I am willing to pay $xxxx out the door", those are actually less profitable deals, usually, but they save quite a bit of time and effort.

fredw1

Last year, the Prius was selling at a premium price. This year, there's $1000 cash back on top of any deal. Most people wanting to buy a Lexus aren't cash strapped, and the dealers know this, so you can't go in with a sob story about "all I can afford is..." because they'll sell the Lexus you want to the next guy who can afford.

tex2670

But, the same is true for any dealer. So, if you are $1000 off on the price of the car, and that customer never comes back to you, someone else gave that customer a better deal.

Your suggestion of offering the all in price is exactly why consumer advocates tell people not to do that--you are never going to know if you could have gone lower, and the customer negotiates against himself. I want to know (1) your "best" sales price and (2) your best trade value. If I come in and say I will pay $XX OTD, why would you EVER give a better price.

No--you are not a charity. But the dealer knows all the numbers, and how much "room" there is, not the customer. Why doesn't the salesman start off with "Here is what I can give this to you for OTD. If you have a trade, there may be $500-$1000 more in it for you." I think we all know the answer to this--maybe it's harsh to say that the saleman is looking to "screw" the customer, but everyone's looking out for their own financial interests, not the other guy. Sometimes, both the customer and the saleman need to work a little harder to make a deal.

tex2670

If that's the attitude of my saleman, I don't want the car. It has nothing to do with Lexus--some people struggle to afford a Lexus, some people struggle to afford a Sentra. And, on the flipside, just beacause you are shopping for an economy car, doesn't mean that you will struggle to afford it. When looking at a Sentra, the sales woman responded to my refusal to pay for floor mats: "Well, if the $52 for the floor mats is too much for you, maybe you want to look at a different car." Newsflash--I could have bought that car, and 4 more of them, in cash. I went elsewhere.

When I bought my Honda Pilot, I had dealers telling me that they were selling at list when I had offers from other dealers way under list, and told them this. They had no response, and didn't negotiate--why? Because they were selling every Pilot that they were allocated, and didn't care if I bought from them--so I didn't.

kalvano

No salesperson or manager (unless they are a total moron) will offer that fabled "best deal" immediately. That's not negotiation, thats giving a car away. The whole point is to make money on each and every deal. If you want to call that screwing over someone, that's your perogative, but aas I said earlier, we are a for-profit business, and entitled to make money.

In all the years I've been doing this, a lot of people have said here is what I want, here is my trade, I want this price. And not a single one has ever left money on the table, so I wouldn't worry about that if I were you.

And also, you know who comes out and says here is the offer on your trade, but there is a little more money I can get for you? Weak salespeople who don't make any money doing this.

All I am saying is that, by suddenly springing the trade, you make everything substantially more difficult, and **** off everyone, for very little to no gain. If I were to go back through my books, the people who mentioned the trade up front versus those who sprung it last second, I would wager a lot of money that their deals are within a couple hundred bucks of each other.

Also, it saves time because if you are being incredibly unrealistic or tanked in the trade, we can figure that out right away.

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

Not at all. How did they make anything more "difficult"?

You've given them the best price on the new car, that's done, and no need to revisit it.

now you give them the best price on the trade-in vehicle.

Two separate transactions that are happening with the same person.


The ONLY person who benefits by trying to confuse things by combing those transactions is the dealer that is trying to confuse the customer and hide the real dollars and where they're going.



I dunno about you, but I'm ok with saving a couple hundred bucks. Since you're the guy taking the money I understand why you wouldn't be though.

Reciprocal

I agree. What's the point of negotiating twice? Just keep it simple, "My trade and $350/mo," or "my trade and $10k cash." If you can't agree, the seller won't sell and the buyer won't buy. You don't have to reveal anything you don't want to, but if you lie up front, it's not like that's some kind of motivation. You're not going to trick the dealer into agreeing a lower price.

As to the question about how desperate dealers or buyers can be in the economy just depends on those local variables in play. I've seen mention of desperate sounding deals offered on 2008 IS F's. Great of course, but I bought the only one I could find locally, and met the person I beat out for it the next night when I brought in the check. He had been looking at it for a month while timing his next move. Now I'm driving it, he's not.

So it just depends on the factors at play. You could wait until it's $10,000 off sticker, maybe it will, maybe it won't, maybe you'll get it for that, maybe you won't or can't buy it even at that price. But if somebody comes along who wants it and has the means, it's going to get snapped up at whatever price he's prepared to pay.

You can't just generalize that because one dealer does this, all dealers will do that. You can get lucky, or you can lose the deal and still call yourself lucky.

The old adage what's it worth? Every cent a buyer is willing to pay and not a penny more!