Hydrogen Hybrid Lexus IS350
09-17-08, 01:59 PM
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Hydrogen Hybrid Lexus IS350
Okay.... it's been 3 months and over $8,000 expenses later.. and we're still perfecting the Hydrogen Hybrid IS350.
So, awhile ago, I decided to round up some guys... and started to work on this hydrogen hybrid.
we first took the Water4Gas system and worked from there. Testing it from a Toyota Corolla, and a Honda Civic, the kit does work, tremendously. pay a small fee for the materials, and we got ourselves a working hydrogen hybrid. The kit only is the surface of the technology. Using the principles of the technology and knowledge combined together, we took the kit to multiple levels of efficiency.
By using better materials, and better mixture of fluid, we were able to generate more hydrogen. Hydrogen is a very dangerous gas, and definately burnable. One of our techs decided to light up some (soda can size amount) and the plastic container exploded, with the force felt throughout the house (yes it shook).
Toyota Corolla was able to get over 80 mpg on our newer cells with the civic coming right behind that.
We have been testing the IS350 for some time now and we also have been running to a lot of bumps throughout the road.
The maximum I have been able to push out of the IS350 is 38 MPG, and we have problems keeping it constant. This is what we discovered, i believe has been discussed in a few threads that the ECU on the car was hard if not impossible to tune:
That the Lexus IS350 was built with adaptive AFR sensors and Fuel injectors, and the ECU onboard actually adjusts itself to run "stock". with multiple piggy backs and differnt boards and controllers, we were able to trick the ECU for some time. and i noticed it got less and less mpg until it was near stock. We have almost perfected our chip to run with no error codes, but not to a point where we would utilize it fully.
On a mission to get maximum MPG, we blew 3 fuses this past weekend and also 2 boards.
Our tests concluded that we were able to fully install this on a Hummer H2, Ford F150 Truck, C6 Corvette, Toyota Camry, Avalon, Honda Civic, Accord, all with 30 - 60%+ Gains in fuel efficiency.
The older the car, the easier and better effieciency you will get.
We also tested one of our cheapest cells on CL member Baoser's Vehicle. a 1st Gen SC. Without any tuning and wasnt using the max amount of hydrogen, Baoser was able to get around 5 MPG gain. I think that is just a little shy from 20%. With tuning and max hydrogen for the cell, no doubt he should get close to 10 MPG gain.
Unfortunately we were unable to continue testing to unforeseen circumstance.
YouTube Video
There's a video of me recording the MPG read off my Scanguage II , which reads real time MPG. It's a bit unclear when uploaded, but basically there are 4 readings. Upper right is GPH and lower right is MPG.
Car was set on Cruise on various Speeds: 60 MPH 70 MPH 75 MPH
GPH is how much I am burning Gallons per Hour.
this was shot on the Highway 99 / 580.
Flat road conditions for this car the GPH readings are around 1.7x GPH.
Of course, there were turns and uphills and downhills where the readings would read 2.xx if not 3.xx GPH when going uphill and 0.xx going downhill.
The MPG numbers fluctuated around 37 - 39 MPG on flat roads with the GPH around 1.7x GPH.
This is a IS350 2006. I got a about 28.xx MPG before on the flat roads.
I have gone through maybe 4 types of cell designs and all sorts of controller modules but havent gotten it down 100%.
For older vehicles pre 2000 or 2001, we have plug and play kits ready for distribution, as we pretty much almost mastered that.
For Lexuses:
1st Gen GS- Okay
2nd Gen GS - Okay
1st Gen SC - Okay
1st Gen IS - Untested
2nd Gen SC - Untested
SUVs - Untested
2nd Gen IS - Prototype
LS - Untested
Hondas:
Pre 2005 Civic/CRV/Accord: Okay
Toyotas:
Pre 2005 Camry / Corolla / Avalon: Okay
Ford:
Various Models tested
We are working hard to get our burned components replaced so it will be up for EOS7. For live demonstration, please visit EOS 7 . September 21, 2008, at Lexus of Stevens Creek.
EOS 7 Details
PM me for any questions.
So, awhile ago, I decided to round up some guys... and started to work on this hydrogen hybrid.
we first took the Water4Gas system and worked from there. Testing it from a Toyota Corolla, and a Honda Civic, the kit does work, tremendously. pay a small fee for the materials, and we got ourselves a working hydrogen hybrid. The kit only is the surface of the technology. Using the principles of the technology and knowledge combined together, we took the kit to multiple levels of efficiency.
By using better materials, and better mixture of fluid, we were able to generate more hydrogen. Hydrogen is a very dangerous gas, and definately burnable. One of our techs decided to light up some (soda can size amount) and the plastic container exploded, with the force felt throughout the house (yes it shook).
Toyota Corolla was able to get over 80 mpg on our newer cells with the civic coming right behind that.
We have been testing the IS350 for some time now and we also have been running to a lot of bumps throughout the road.
The maximum I have been able to push out of the IS350 is 38 MPG, and we have problems keeping it constant. This is what we discovered, i believe has been discussed in a few threads that the ECU on the car was hard if not impossible to tune:
That the Lexus IS350 was built with adaptive AFR sensors and Fuel injectors, and the ECU onboard actually adjusts itself to run "stock". with multiple piggy backs and differnt boards and controllers, we were able to trick the ECU for some time. and i noticed it got less and less mpg until it was near stock. We have almost perfected our chip to run with no error codes, but not to a point where we would utilize it fully.
On a mission to get maximum MPG, we blew 3 fuses this past weekend and also 2 boards.
Our tests concluded that we were able to fully install this on a Hummer H2, Ford F150 Truck, C6 Corvette, Toyota Camry, Avalon, Honda Civic, Accord, all with 30 - 60%+ Gains in fuel efficiency.
The older the car, the easier and better effieciency you will get.
We also tested one of our cheapest cells on CL member Baoser's Vehicle. a 1st Gen SC. Without any tuning and wasnt using the max amount of hydrogen, Baoser was able to get around 5 MPG gain. I think that is just a little shy from 20%. With tuning and max hydrogen for the cell, no doubt he should get close to 10 MPG gain.
Unfortunately we were unable to continue testing to unforeseen circumstance.
YouTube Video
There's a video of me recording the MPG read off my Scanguage II , which reads real time MPG. It's a bit unclear when uploaded, but basically there are 4 readings. Upper right is GPH and lower right is MPG.
Car was set on Cruise on various Speeds: 60 MPH 70 MPH 75 MPH
GPH is how much I am burning Gallons per Hour.
this was shot on the Highway 99 / 580.
Flat road conditions for this car the GPH readings are around 1.7x GPH.
Of course, there were turns and uphills and downhills where the readings would read 2.xx if not 3.xx GPH when going uphill and 0.xx going downhill.
The MPG numbers fluctuated around 37 - 39 MPG on flat roads with the GPH around 1.7x GPH.
This is a IS350 2006. I got a about 28.xx MPG before on the flat roads.
I have gone through maybe 4 types of cell designs and all sorts of controller modules but havent gotten it down 100%.
For older vehicles pre 2000 or 2001, we have plug and play kits ready for distribution, as we pretty much almost mastered that.
For Lexuses:
1st Gen GS- Okay
2nd Gen GS - Okay
1st Gen SC - Okay
1st Gen IS - Untested
2nd Gen SC - Untested
SUVs - Untested
2nd Gen IS - Prototype
LS - Untested
Hondas:
Pre 2005 Civic/CRV/Accord: Okay
Toyotas:
Pre 2005 Camry / Corolla / Avalon: Okay
Ford:
Various Models tested
We are working hard to get our burned components replaced so it will be up for EOS7. For live demonstration, please visit EOS 7 . September 21, 2008, at Lexus of Stevens Creek.
EOS 7 Details
PM me for any questions.
Last edited by LSCJJ; 09-17-08 at 02:20 PM.
09-17-08, 02:47 PM
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Hey it's Vik from L4P.
Wow what a crazy project. I did not realize there were hydrogen hybrid kits.
Do you have any pics?
Although, I am able to attain 35 MPG while cruising at 60 mph. Can the 38 be obtained in the city with stop and go?
Wow what a crazy project. I did not realize there were hydrogen hybrid kits.
Do you have any pics?
Although, I am able to attain 35 MPG while cruising at 60 mph. Can the 38 be obtained in the city with stop and go?
09-17-08, 03:14 PM
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I was only able to get atbou 28 29 with my circumstances prior to install.
The only problem sithe ECU settings i keep running into. Maximum Fuel efficiency can only be achieved for awhile until the ECU slowly tunes it back to stock. We're figuring out how to keep it steady.
But for older vehicles, no problem!!
I will post pix later.
09-17-08, 04:36 PM
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My modulated Power to control Ampage
Close up of 1 cell. I have 2. Each cell as 50 High Grade Stainless Steel plates.
Two Cells.. enclosed in lexan.
Switch
Scanguage II
Hydrogen Creation
Hydrogen
09-17-08, 04:48 PM
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If you are able to attain 35 MPG, you would have better results than i have.
I was only able to get atbou 28 29 with my circumstances prior to install.
The only problem sithe ECU settings i keep running into. Maximum Fuel efficiency can only be achieved for awhile until the ECU slowly tunes it back to stock. We're figuring out how to keep it steady.
But for older vehicles, no problem!!
I will post pix later.
I was only able to get atbou 28 29 with my circumstances prior to install.
The only problem sithe ECU settings i keep running into. Maximum Fuel efficiency can only be achieved for awhile until the ECU slowly tunes it back to stock. We're figuring out how to keep it steady.
But for older vehicles, no problem!!
I will post pix later.
The only way you'll solve this is to figure out how to get the wideband AFR to report a different A/F ratio than you are running. As long as it thinks you're not at stoichiometric, it will trim fuel to restore stoich. It can trim up to 20 percent with long term trim, so you'll need to figure out a way to fool the ECM. So far, no one has had great success with trimming fuel without using a device that fundamentally remaps the MAF output, but even those are not effective below 78% throttle. Closed loop is the tuner's enemy on any Toyota product.
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09-18-08, 12:15 AM
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The only way you'll solve this is to figure out how to get the wideband AFR to report a different A/F ratio than you are running. As long as it thinks you're not at stoichiometric, it will trim fuel to restore stoich. It can trim up to 20 percent with long term trim, so you'll need to figure out a way to fool the ECM. So far, no one has had great success with trimming fuel without using a device that fundamentally remaps the MAF output, but even those are not effective below 78% throttle. Closed loop is the tuner's enemy on any Toyota product.
I checked out CthruIS350 's project car in person a few times and also see his lastest setup (as in picture) this evening. It does good work of saving fuels but it also has some ECU ruling problems. As myself went through a supercharged 2IS project, my 2cents guess to solve his problmes falls on the engine management of the vehicle.
Custom fuel management and engine management are the biggest challenge
for all lastest models of highend Lex/Toy when coming to an engine modification project, and the solution usually mixes with some modifications of MAF and o2-sims.
I am NOT a pro in tuning and I am getting lazy to go through problems, but I am happy to see another hardcore player who looks for something alternative.
Good luck and keep us (or me only) posted.
Joseph
Last edited by josephdoc; 09-18-08 at 03:12 PM.
09-18-08, 08:53 AM
#14
J,
you showed us your proposal weeks ago and you studied this concept months earlier. Though it it a work in progress, now it is a reality.
So you are coming over tonight, so I can help do the cosmetic mods to make the set up look pretty for EOS7.
My little contribution to this project.
As for seeing this car in person and picking the brain of this mad scientist, come check out his car plus 176 other cars that are attending the 7th Annual " End of Summer Meet" in Northern California this coming Sunday.
Shameless Plug
:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=374029
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=376335
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...01#post3837601
you showed us your proposal weeks ago and you studied this concept months earlier. Though it it a work in progress, now it is a reality.
So you are coming over tonight, so I can help do the cosmetic mods to make the set up look pretty for EOS7.
My little contribution to this project.
As for seeing this car in person and picking the brain of this mad scientist, come check out his car plus 176 other cars that are attending the 7th Annual " End of Summer Meet" in Northern California this coming Sunday.
Shameless Plug
:https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=374029
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=376335
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...01#post3837601
Last edited by RMMGS4; 09-18-08 at 08:57 AM.
09-18-08, 09:20 AM
#15
I am so suspect since this known scientific facts:
The energy you need to ionize water to get the Hydrogen, is much greater than the energy you get from chemically burning that H2.
So in fact the whole process is: the H2 system will drain more energy from your car's battery/engine, then generate some H2 in return to compensate part of your engine's energy lost.
The reason why you see/claim higher mpg maybe:
1. haven't run the 'actual' objective test to calculate the mpg: ie: precisely fill the gas tank and immediately put the car on the special load machine and run at a set speed for a set time, and precisely calculate how many gal. of gas is burned. Repeat the same procedure for the stock and modified car and compare the results.
Or maybe:
2. from the above scientific facts, the Hydrogen Hybrid system will make the engine energy output less (because drain > input), so in this case its equivalent to a detuned version engine with less hp and torque. Therefore obviously a 'weaker' engine will definitely has higher mpg, just like the I4 camry is more fuel efficient than the V6 camry.
The energy you need to ionize water to get the Hydrogen, is much greater than the energy you get from chemically burning that H2.
So in fact the whole process is: the H2 system will drain more energy from your car's battery/engine, then generate some H2 in return to compensate part of your engine's energy lost.
The reason why you see/claim higher mpg maybe:
1. haven't run the 'actual' objective test to calculate the mpg: ie: precisely fill the gas tank and immediately put the car on the special load machine and run at a set speed for a set time, and precisely calculate how many gal. of gas is burned. Repeat the same procedure for the stock and modified car and compare the results.
Or maybe:
2. from the above scientific facts, the Hydrogen Hybrid system will make the engine energy output less (because drain > input), so in this case its equivalent to a detuned version engine with less hp and torque. Therefore obviously a 'weaker' engine will definitely has higher mpg, just like the I4 camry is more fuel efficient than the V6 camry.