Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

Could you be specific on what your adapters have in them that make the sound quality better when passing through the sound from the dock connector to the input of the factory head unit than your competitors products?

MCL1

how well does this work with non nav?

Still have playlist functions?

VaisTech

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for everyones patience! We are going to do a group buy as soon as all packages for the VI are released. We are still finishing up with package 4 for the cars with factory DVD or RES and all packages will be available in about 5 weeks. The update for advanced searching ability is in its testing phase right now and should be released for the VI in about 2 weeks.

About the internal components for audio, we designed our products to eliminate distortion and also to broaden the frequency range to achieve the deep, rich, bass and clean, crisp, highs. Once again even the PA20 is not a straight pass through, there is circuitry that the audio signal is being passed through and that circuitry can either help or harm the audio signal.

lexusscguy

iTrader: (1)

Ok, so you use circuitry to alter the output signal of the IPOD, well below is a test we did with an RightMark Audio Analyzer of the output of the just the IPOD and the output of the USA-SPEC unit with the IPOD connected, the results were exactly the same, showing us that USA-SPEC does not alter the signal at all. So if what you say is true, and you make the signal better, post the results from your unit, especially would like to see the THD.

Frequency response (from 40 Hz to 15 kHz), dB: +0.02, -0.09
Noise level, dB (A): -101.3
Dynamic range, dB (A): 91.2
THD, %: 0.0053
IMD + Noise, %: 0.0096
Stereo crosstalk, dB: -102.5
IMD at 10 kHz, %: 0.013

NAK

If they're so good, I think Pioneer, JBL and even Mark Levinson should be out of business....

lexusscguy

iTrader: (1)

I never said they were so good, I said that they should be the same, the line out signal of the IPOD should not be altered in any way and I believe VAIS is BSing the guys on the board. But hey you can make your own opinion, on a side note in my opinion and it's just my opinion, I don't think Pioneer, JBL or Mark Levinson (since he left the company and has nothing to do with thier equipment anymore) are that good.

NAK

The line out signal of the iPod is always altered on all devices! Nobody can create an amplifier which will not alter the original signal on the way out. Any amplification and signal switching alter the original signal. The only question how much this signal altered? Two different devices can not be absolutely the same, unless they use identical schematic and identical components (capacitors and integrated circuits) inside. THD, frequency response, phase response depends a lot on device schematic and quality of the parts used in this schematic. To get parameters you provide here design engineers must be extremely good! And it can not be done without altering the original signal! Unfortunately any amplification and signal switching schematic creates a pretty noticeable input on THD, frequency response, and phase response. To get this result device schematic (analog schematic, I am sure we are not talking about Digital Signal Processing here) must compensate distortions created by elements such capacitors and passive elements and semiconductors inside integrated circuits. In most cases this changes the final cost of the device dramatically. In other words - quality can not be cheap, so you’re pay for what you get.
RightMark Audio Analyzer is pretty good software, but it is really hard to use it to get realistic measurements. I think we are talking about THD and noise parameters really close to accuracy of this software and your audio card, even if you’re using some really expensive ones. Another important thing, you never mention parameters of input and output signals such peak-to-peak amplitude. RightMark Audio Analyzer measurements are extremely sensitive to signal amplitude.

Anyway those "digits" are too good to be true. I would be really careful to publicly post something like that without proof those measurements with other measurement equipment.

Bichon

I'd also like to hear more about how you conducted the test. In particular, how did you connect to the audio output of the PA20?

lexusscguy

iTrader: (1)

I didn't do the test, I work for Siemens and sent the unit over to Munich and had a one of the Senior engineers in Siemens audio dept run the tests, as I will do with the VAIS unit if they ever release it. I will ask him to send the full write up and were he picked the signals off of when I get back from vacation. And Nak I do agreed with you that an amplifier will always alter the signal, but the IPOD interface is not an amplifier, so the signal should be a pass thru to the amplifier.

jetman

Just wanted to chime in on the USA SPEC interface. I, too, got tired of Vaistech pushing back the release date of their updated unit, so I decided to get the USA SPEC interface instead. Purchased one online for $130 + S&H and installed it yesterday. I wanted to use it with an old 3rd generation iPod. Unfortunately when I hooked it up the interface is not completely compatible with the iPod. The "artist" listing stops after about 15 names. However, when I hooked it up to newer iPod nano (not the current one, but the prior generation) and everything works properly as described. Look, I'm not an audiophile and I don't have the ML audio in my IS, but IMHO the sound quality is excellent. If Vais wants to dispute this and says their unit processes audio better than so be it, but I'm happy with the USA SPEC. The interface is fairly easy to use, but I wish it would scroll through artists/albums/songs a little faster. I guess I'm just used to using the scroll wheel on the iPod and just flying though the names...

The biggest drawback, IMHO, is the inability to browse folders/change artists & albums on the iPod while the vehicle is in motion. Kind of defeats the purpose of having thousands of songs to choose from, but not being able to select them while driving. (Just a side note, the Vaistech unit will have the same limitation, so I'm told) I'm seriously considering doing the nav hack to correct this, but I'm a little uneasy about cutting wires and voiding the warranty on the nav unit.

Another thing I don't like is that the song/artist/album information on the screen disappears when the vehicle is in motion. Again, this would be probably be fixed by doing the nav hack, but I wonder if USA SPEC could have allowed this information to be displayed anyway.

All in all, so far I'm pretty happy with the USA SPEC interface. I've bought stuff in the past from Vaistech and have been pleased with their products, but this unit seems to do everything their interface does (if the software ever gets released) but at a lot cheaper price ($120 less). I am a little disappointed at Vais for smugly dissing the competitors product, when their product (with updated software) is not even available yet. I would love to see some head-to-head tests between the two units to see if the Vaistech is worth the extra $$.

Kris Laes

So I installed the USA spec today with the ipod in my glovebox, works just fine on my NAV-ML and sound quality is good, I cannot hear any difference with just listening to the ipod through my NAD home stereo with Ipod interface in any case.

anyways, what I do find very annoying is that:
* When selecting by artist, you just get all songs by that artist, and no album names. So if you have like 10 albums by metallica, and select metallica, it just displays all songs from those 10 albums.
* you can select by album too (kust album name alphabetically, no artist name), however, the listing is limited to twohundredsomething items (218 I believe). This is probably a limitation of the NAv unit itself, but since I have an ipod classic 80gb, it has a lot more than 200 albums on it.

Thus, I find there is no convenient way to access all music on the ipod though the nav screen. I'll probably end up mounting the Ipod on a dash mount so that I can control it directly (which is also possible on the usaspec)

By the way, the usaspec can handle more than 6 playlists (yes, it's actually 6) on cars with NAV screen, the limitation of 6 playlists is just for non-nav cars.

DZP

Another hobby of mine is (home and portable) audio, and I'm pretty familiar with the iPod's line-out as I've used it countless times hooked up to an external portable headphone amplifier to drive IEMs such as Etymotic ER4S, Westone UM2, Shure E4C, and the Shure E500.

As far as I know, a dock-out interface like these iPod Integration Kits will definitely not "remove distortion, and broaden frequency response", that is, excuse my French, total BS. These are not amplifiers, they are routing and control devices meant to pass-through the audio signal from specific dock-out pins responsible for audio to an external amplifier for amplification.

On the off-chance that is does alter the signal, well then that's an even bigger "sin" in high-end audio and is a definite no-no since the goal is the pass through the signal as untouched as possible. Claims of reducing distortion and broaden frequency response smacks of gimmicks like the Crystalizer on certain Creative sound-cards.

tbaker4

Just had a USA SPEC PA20-TOY installed in my 2008 ES350 (non-ML). Something must be wrong. I do not get any of the menus - no option to search through albums or artists. I talked to a tech guy at USA SPEC and he was saying that the problem is the result of the unit being installed in the SAT port. HE said it should go in the CD changer port (although he said I should not loose the cd changer when doing this).

Anyone have info on this?

IS_NIICE

iTrader: (1)

yeah, this is correct. it will be installed as CD Changer 2

tbaker4

Thanks for the word - I will tell my installer.

I guess (looking at other posts) that unless I start cutting wires, that the Artist/album etc. menus become unusable when the car is moving?


t