Safety features debate - Let's get it on...
03-22-07, 03:44 PM
#46
The buzzer goes off because unbelted drivers are far more likely to be killed by airbags than belted drivers. They don't want to be sued for your death. Even if they win, they have to waste all that money defending themselves. It amazes me how frequently car manufacturers are sued for failing to engineer one leg of the safety triangle sufficiently safe to negate any ill effects of the other two legs (driver behaviour and road conditions are the other two legs).
03-22-07, 05:39 PM
#47
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Thread Starter
You know, the one safety device that would save the most lives is if every car came with the ignition breath alcohol lock... Prevent drunk drivers from even cranking up their cars... I'd be all for that...
But the useless useless "safety" features Toyota puts in the cars... I mean, comon, no caller ID display while the car is moving??? That's so retarded... Well, they are all retarded, but on a retarded scale, it's near the very top
But the useless useless "safety" features Toyota puts in the cars... I mean, comon, no caller ID display while the car is moving??? That's so retarded... Well, they are all retarded, but on a retarded scale, it's near the very top
03-22-07, 06:44 PM
#48
You know, the one safety device that would save the most lives is if every car came with the ignition breath alcohol lock... Prevent drunk drivers from even cranking up their cars... I'd be all for that...
But the useless useless "safety" features Toyota puts in the cars... I mean, comon, no caller ID display while the car is moving??? That's so retarded... Well, they are all retarded, but on a retarded scale, it's near the very top
But the useless useless "safety" features Toyota puts in the cars... I mean, comon, no caller ID display while the car is moving??? That's so retarded... Well, they are all retarded, but on a retarded scale, it's near the very top
03-22-07, 07:15 PM
#49
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Doesn’t this same logic apply to the nav restriction of no manual inputs while moving? I’ve heard over and over again about how other manufacturers allow it but not Toyota. Other manufacturers, with only a brief seat belt buzzer, also equip their cars with air bags. Do they not care about being sued on either of those issues? And if only Toyota cares, is that really a bad thing?
Thankfully, we are allowed to turn off the incessant noise if we are resourceful and motivated. If you have the older version of the navigation system, you also have an option. As the options are taken away, I know I will seek other manufacturers products, or I will just not buy the OEM product and plan to purchase an aftermarket piece without all the restrictions. I have also stated this in very plain language to Lexus/Toyota. Still, they are hitting their sales numbers, so I doubt my complaint will generate any change.
03-22-07, 07:34 PM
#50
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The buzzer goes off because unbelted drivers are far more likely to be killed by airbags than belted drivers. They don't want to be sued for your death. Even if they win, they have to waste all that money defending themselves. It amazes me how frequently car manufacturers are sued for failing to engineer one leg of the safety triangle sufficiently safe to negate any ill effects of the other two legs (driver behaviour and road conditions are the other two legs).
I understand why it goes off (though I guess every OTHER car is defective). Luckily for me I wear my seat belt when I drive AND I can disable the buzzer so I don't have to hear when sitting in my car not buckled up.
03-22-07, 07:36 PM
#51
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Perhaps a good idea, but not very workable. First of all, issuing drivers’ licenses is a State function, and I, for one, do not want to create any more federal bureaucracies than necessary.
But the real dilemma here is that you will have many people pass a tougher standard but still kill themselves on the highway anyway. I’m thinking mostly of young drivers, typically teens, who have the skill but lack the proper attitude as they drag race down public streets. You can’t really create a test for that. And then you’ll have the older drivers who can pass any test you throw at them and then go out and drive drunk. How do you stop that?
And frankly, and I may hold a minority opinion here on CL, those who are quick to trash current safety devices also need to improve their attitude regarding safe driving.
But the real dilemma here is that you will have many people pass a tougher standard but still kill themselves on the highway anyway. I’m thinking mostly of young drivers, typically teens, who have the skill but lack the proper attitude as they drag race down public streets. You can’t really create a test for that. And then you’ll have the older drivers who can pass any test you throw at them and then go out and drive drunk. How do you stop that?
And frankly, and I may hold a minority opinion here on CL, those who are quick to trash current safety devices also need to improve their attitude regarding safe driving.
The safety nannies aren't going to stop people (teens or older) from drag racing down public streets. If that's the concern, the easy remedy is to mandate an HP ceiling -- say 80HP. No other cars allowed on the road.
03-22-07, 07:40 PM
#52
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Speaking of useless, what about the speed limiters on our car!! That is yet ANOTHER annoying safety feature I can't stand... I think it kicks in just shy of 150MPH (indicated)... How stupid is that? Are they saying that it's safe to drive 145MPH dangerous to drive 150 MPH?
The real danger is when these limiters kick in at those high speeds... When you are going over 130MPH the last thing you want is any abrupt changes, such as a fuel cut off/rev limiter!!! That's dangerous...
If the manufactures will impose speed limiters, they should be like 90MPH or something...
The real danger is when these limiters kick in at those high speeds... When you are going over 130MPH the last thing you want is any abrupt changes, such as a fuel cut off/rev limiter!!! That's dangerous...
If the manufactures will impose speed limiters, they should be like 90MPH or something...
03-22-07, 08:11 PM
#53
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There are LOTS of things the manufacturers could do to limit performance. If your driver's license were a smart card, the security system could actually look at your driving experience (based on what gets stored on the card) and limit the car's performance to an appropriate skill level. Like, you've had your license less than 5 years, so your top speed is limited to 75 mph, and the rate of acceleration is limited to no quicker than 0 - 60 in 12 seconds. Regardless of the power available. The technology exists. It's just a matter of time. Or, the real time traffic monitoring project will kick off and your ECM will be sending speed, course, and heading data to a central datastore where it can be checked for legal compliance, and the data mined for marketing purposes. Yes, this is a real project the federal government has been funding since 1991 with billions of our tax dollars. It's the next step "for our own good" http://www.vehicle-infrastructure.org/WhatsVII.htm
If only it could get the slow pokes causing the traffic jams to step on the gas and get out of the way. That will never happen.
If only it could get the slow pokes causing the traffic jams to step on the gas and get out of the way. That will never happen.
03-23-07, 12:34 PM
#54
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Japanese manufacturers tend to follow the Japanese (JAMA) guidelines regarding these systems hence the restrictions that you see. As the quote below mentions, the guidelines themselves are lacking. But at least they're making some attempt to keep us from killing ourselves.
http://hcilab.uniud.it/publications/...NOLOGIES04.pdf
JAMA (Japan Automobile Manufacturers’ Association) [JAMA, 2000]; although not mandatory, all 11 Japanese vehicle manufacturers comply with them and encourage their widespread adoption all over the world. They are far more restrictive than all the other guidelines. Among other things, when a vehicle is in motion, they prohibit to present the driver with:
§ images of television broadcasts or video playback;
§ phone numbers and addresses as guiding information;
§ introductions to restaurants and hotels, although pictures showing their location may be presented;
§ scrolling characters;
§ messages longer than 31 characters, excluding punctuation and units;
§ complex operations, like destination entry.
However, the JAMA guidelines are lacking with respect to the following aspects:
§ supporting documentation explaining the empirical basis for each guideline;
§ general references to previous research;
§ details about test data, i.e.,
- driver’s tasks (with pictures of the interfaces);
- vehicles and streets types;
- instructions given to subjects;
- measures used;
- statistical analysis;
§ they are based on Japanese driving conditions.
http://hcilab.uniud.it/publications/...NOLOGIES04.pdf
JAMA (Japan Automobile Manufacturers’ Association) [JAMA, 2000]; although not mandatory, all 11 Japanese vehicle manufacturers comply with them and encourage their widespread adoption all over the world. They are far more restrictive than all the other guidelines. Among other things, when a vehicle is in motion, they prohibit to present the driver with:
§ images of television broadcasts or video playback;
§ phone numbers and addresses as guiding information;
§ introductions to restaurants and hotels, although pictures showing their location may be presented;
§ scrolling characters;
§ messages longer than 31 characters, excluding punctuation and units;
§ complex operations, like destination entry.
However, the JAMA guidelines are lacking with respect to the following aspects:
§ supporting documentation explaining the empirical basis for each guideline;
§ general references to previous research;
§ details about test data, i.e.,
- driver’s tasks (with pictures of the interfaces);
- vehicles and streets types;
- instructions given to subjects;
- measures used;
- statistical analysis;
§ they are based on Japanese driving conditions.
03-23-07, 01:13 PM
#55
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Japanese manufacturers tend to follow the Japanese (JAMA) guidelines regarding these systems hence the restrictions that you see. As the quote below mentions, the guidelines themselves are lacking. But at least they're making some attempt to keep us from killing ourselves.
http://hcilab.uniud.it/publications/...NOLOGIES04.pdf
JAMA (Japan Automobile Manufacturers’ Association) [JAMA, 2000]; although not mandatory, all 11 Japanese vehicle manufacturers comply with them and encourage their widespread adoption all over the world. They are far more restrictive than all the other guidelines. Among other things, when a vehicle is in motion, they prohibit to present the driver with:
§ images of television broadcasts or video playback;
§ phone numbers and addresses as guiding information;
§ introductions to restaurants and hotels, although pictures showing their location may be presented;
§ scrolling characters;
§ messages longer than 31 characters, excluding punctuation and units;
§ complex operations, like destination entry.
However, the JAMA guidelines are lacking with respect to the following aspects:
§ supporting documentation explaining the empirical basis for each guideline;
§ general references to previous research;
§ details about test data, i.e.,
- driver’s tasks (with pictures of the interfaces);
- vehicles and streets types;
- instructions given to subjects;
- measures used;
- statistical analysis;
§ they are based on Japanese driving conditions.
http://hcilab.uniud.it/publications/...NOLOGIES04.pdf
JAMA (Japan Automobile Manufacturers’ Association) [JAMA, 2000]; although not mandatory, all 11 Japanese vehicle manufacturers comply with them and encourage their widespread adoption all over the world. They are far more restrictive than all the other guidelines. Among other things, when a vehicle is in motion, they prohibit to present the driver with:
§ images of television broadcasts or video playback;
§ phone numbers and addresses as guiding information;
§ introductions to restaurants and hotels, although pictures showing their location may be presented;
§ scrolling characters;
§ messages longer than 31 characters, excluding punctuation and units;
§ complex operations, like destination entry.
However, the JAMA guidelines are lacking with respect to the following aspects:
§ supporting documentation explaining the empirical basis for each guideline;
§ general references to previous research;
§ details about test data, i.e.,
- driver’s tasks (with pictures of the interfaces);
- vehicles and streets types;
- instructions given to subjects;
- measures used;
- statistical analysis;
§ they are based on Japanese driving conditions.
I love Honda/Acura even more now...
03-23-07, 02:06 PM
#56
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03-23-07, 02:14 PM
#57
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Hold on there partner, not necessarily. The Honda/Acura cars I have experienced with the non-intrusive Navis were built in N. America (Mdx/Odyssey-Canada, TL/Accord-USA). I wonder if the Hondas built in Japan have intrusive Navis (RL, Tsx, S2000). If built outside of Japan, maybe JAMA doesn't apply (loophole) . . .
03-23-07, 03:15 PM
#58
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Hold on there partner, not necessarily. The Honda/Acura cars I have experienced with the non-intrusive Navis were built in N. America (Mdx/Odyssey-Canada, TL/Accord-USA). I wonder if the Hondas built in Japan have intrusive Navis (RL, Tsx, S2000). If built outside of Japan, maybe JAMA doesn't apply (loophole) . . .
03-23-07, 03:19 PM
#59
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It's curious the Japanese manufacturers offer television in their cars when it appears JAMA specifically prohibits it.
03-23-07, 03:28 PM
#60
• Are these guidelines baseless with no statistical justification?
• Are they valid only in Japan because drivers there are unskilled and careless?
• Or are they valid everywhere, but because your driving skills are so superior they don’t apply to you?
