skingsland

OK, I need some advice. I apologize for the length of this post; I've tried to be as succinct as possible, but I'm just frustrated. Here's what happened:

I went to a dealer (who shall remain nameless) for an IS 350 test drive. The salesman was pushy, rude and demeaning to me. I wasn't planning on ordering that day or from that dealer (necessarily), but ended up putting in a special order with him anyway by the end of the night. Crazy thing is, the salesman got so worked up over the questions I was asking him, he wrote down the WRONG BASE PRICE on the purchase order. I have to go back to give him my $500 deposit check, and I'm wondering what I should do.

When he showed me the pricing, I said "this isn't right". He said "whatever you've seen on the internet is wrong, this is the actual price". I said "does this maybe include my trade-in value"? (about $6500) He said "no". So I thought, wow I guess I can put up with you if it means saving that much money.

He wouldn't give me a copy of the order, in fact I had to press him just to get him to write out the prices on a blank piece of paper and sign his name to it! But sure enough, he wrote down $31,160 for the base price, which coincidentally is the IS 250 base price! And he's giving me $1000 off that. Total for my IS 350 w/Nav, ML, Lux Pkg & spoiler: $38,357.

So what do you think I should do? If he had simply been nice to me and given me the correct base price, I'd be totally content with the special order. This has been frustrating me since yesterday, and partly I just need to vent.



Here are some of the things he told me, which I suspect are false:

1) That the preferred accessory package is put on ALL IS 350s by the factory, and even if you special order you can't have it removed. (Isn't this just cargo net, wheel locks and a trunk mat?)

2) That ALL Lexus dealers in the country will only take a check for a special order deposit, not a credit card. This directly conflicts with what 2 other dealers have told me.

3) That Lexus is DECREASING production of IS 250s and 350s. When I told him I had heard just the opposite -- that Lexus was increasing production to match the demand -- he said where did you hear that, an internet chat room or a msg board? "Who are you gonna believe, my Lexus Rep or some person on the Internet?" (exact quote)

He used this last piece to claim that pricing will probably never come down from MSRP for IS 350s. I said another dealer had offered me $1000 off a special order already. He came back and said: "I just talked to the sales manager, and he told me that that other dealer is going to order your car, then not tell you when it comes in and try to sell it for MSRP. If they do, they'll order you another one, and you'll keep waiting until they can't sell it anymore, then they'll call you and tell you it's in." I said in my best fake sincerity voice "wow, I can't believe a LEXUS dealer would do such a thing!" Him: "Yup, but THIS dealership would never DREAM of doing that to a customer."

Oh, and I almost forgot the best one!!

4) No bank, dealership or financial organization will give someone a loan for a car more than 6 years old; and most won't offer financing on a car exactly 6 years old (my trade-in is a 2000 model year). I would be shocked if this was the case.

Oh, and I just realized that he took all this time to run my credit (at his urging, even though I told him I already had a great finance offer from my credit union), and he never even told me what finance rate they could give me!

It's been six years since I've bought a car, and I'm remembering why I have no faith in car dealers...

pita2go

hum.. i don't know what they will do.. but i think that guy will get fired if he sells it to you at that price... i don't know.. a simple slip up? It does happen.. hey if you can get it.. then all the more power to you...

the_ez_rhino

wow, that guy sounds like quite a douchebag.

i would imagine that even with the error made, you won't get the car for that price. at some point someone at the dealership is going to eventually realize that there was an error made and tell the salesman hes a dumbass.

i like how most dealerships completely discredit the internet, when in fact, 90% of the people on these messageboards know more about their cars than they do.

and he was completely full of **** on those things he told you, except for #1 I believe. that one I think is true. especially #4, wtf is that guy smoking?

pita2go

jeez.. now that i think about it more and more..
that guy shouldn't be a salesman..
you should take it.. if you actually got him to sign it with that paper.. it still is a contract right?
Then again.. he doesn't have posession of the car... but i am sure there is a way to work it out..

it will work out in your favor in my opinion...
either you get it at the price and he gets fired...
or you get a very good deal because they don't want you to take legal action..
or they will say no.. and you can talk to a lawyer if the dealership or salesperson has liability...
since the salesman is a person who has authoritive power over selling of vehicles..
but i am sure they have their limits.. that is why they have department heads.. sigh..

heyheyhey

Did you go to a Northern VA dealer? If so mind telling us what area the dealer is in? I.E. fairfax, Vienna, Alexandria, Arlington....?

AsianGirl007

iTrader: (1)

Wow, that's quite a story.

Is the "purchase order" an actual contract they printed? Or is it a internal form the dealership created? Either way, as long as it's all in writing and specific with price, all options, and no trade, they would have to honor it. Although you might be waiting a long time since they never gave you a delivery date.

As for the other 3 questions, I worked at a Lexus dealer for some 13 years and I can tell you I prefered taking a credit card vs cash deposits because in case the customer cancelled the order it was easy to credit the charge and the business office would refund in about 2 days. A check refund was a big pita because they'd have to verify funds, issue a check and chase down the owner AND controller to sign before mailing it out which could take a couple weeks.

If you are doing the 3-4 months special order, it's like Burger King, you can have it your way. So no preferred accessory package if you dont want it, but I would recommend getting it as it doesnt cost much and its worth it.

My understanding is Lexus is stepping up production to meet demand and they want to break some kind of selling record in the coming year.

I would either work with another salersperson or call another dealership and place a second order.

Good luck.

kensteele

So I'm not a lawyer so don't take this as legal advice. But I've been thru it before.

There is no contract until both sides have a meeting of the minds and are both in agreement and on the same page.

There is no car so there is not contract to be executed. You can't sign a contract today for a car tomorrow. Check the laws in your state but I believe a VIN is required in order to have a fully executed motor vehicle contract for sale.

If you intend to hold the dealership to this piece of paper, it has to work both ways. He can hold you to this piece of paper.

Are you obligated to buy this car? Do you feel like you have already made the purchase and signed the deal and it is done? If you say NO, then neither is he.

You can't have one side bound and the other side unbound, if that is the case, there is no contract. Both sides have to be bound or neither is bound.

And in this case they are not. No contract.

Getting a saleperson to write something down on a piece of paper is worthless and only serves you to take it to another dealership to help make your case. A handwritten note cannot constitute a consumer contract from a vehicle in a legal sense.

Work out your best deal and pay them for the car when it arrives and you'll be happy.

Even if you walked away with paying for this car and you drove away and there is an error, the reasonable error can be corrected. Just like you would want to reasonable error to be corrrected it went against you, they can correct it just the same. Usually this correction ends up taking place in court because 90% of the people on the Internet don't know the law and believe in "finder's keeper's" and the "customer is always right and the dealership is wrong" and "too bad so sad" those kinds of things.

If there is a $4k error for real, a good judge will split the difference or if it's timely, cancel the contract and give the car back (especially if you didn't have a trade-in).

jlin101

A handwriiten price on a blank piece of paper is as good as scrap (did he even sign it?). Unless he gave you a copy of the worksheet with his signiture on it, I don't think you have a leg to stand on (anyone can walk into a dealership with a piece of paper). It's eiter an honest mistake (yeh right) or a scam preventing you from ordering from other dealerships (when the car arrives, he telsl you he made an error--some people would just take the lump and all). The number he gave you is way low (MSRP would be about $45.5k at that spec). Just as you have the right to refuse delivery, he can refuse to sell it to you, since all you have if a piece of paper with a number on it. If his demeanor is as condescending as you described, go elsewhere. This is atypical of a Lexus dealership which values customer satisfaction above all else. I would ascertain the price with the sales manager who has the authority to finalize the price, but don't get your hopes up, as fully loaded 350's are very hard to come by still.

Skip

Sounds to me like he was just trying to suck you in . He figures that you will be so excited about ordering a new car that you will pay anything when you come back. The bait and switch type of tactic.

The salesman should go back to selling Kia or Yugo!

skingsland

I don't think it's an actual contract, since I have the option of not buying it (and forfitting my deposit) when it comes in. However, it does look like their standard form for writing up sales orders, and it says "Purchase Order" at the top. It lists the price, all the options and their prices, and all the dealer fees (e.g. processing, biz. lic. tax, tag, title, reg., tax, etc.). The info for my trade-in is on it, but there's no price info for it listed.

If I go back and give him my deposit check, I'm not leaving without a copy of that PO with my deposit on it, and his signature, and preferably the general sales manager's signature. I figure if my car comes in and they refuse to sell it to me for that price, even though we agreed and signed our names to it, then at least I'll get the $1K off MSRP, which was all I was looking for to begin with!

But the thing that gives me pause is, I'm not sure I trust this guy to put my order in right!!! I don't wanna wait 3-4 months w/o a VIN, just trusting some guy that probably hates me, to find out I don't have a car.

gs4rocks

If I were you, I wouldn't deal with this salesman. Never deal with a sales person who is pushy or dumb. They usually create some kind of problem for the buyer. I'm pretty sure that when it comes to time to sign the final paper, all numbers will be reviewed by someone who know what the bottom line is. It happened to me in the past. Unless the final contract is signed, they will refuse to sell it at the price with mistake.

berg7445

I would call Lexus of North America and inform them about how terrible the salesman is. They always call for surveys, why don't you call and file a complaint against him. It's the quick way to get him out of the dealership for being incompetent.

skingsland

Do you honestly think they'll care?

One of the funniest parts of this experience, is that he kept telling me that I needed to trust him and the dealership a lot more. As I kept (politely) asking questions to "trust but verify", he got increasingly upset and angry at me. But at the same time, he kept getting my name wrong (happened at least 4 times). So he'd say "well Chris, if you can't learn to trust us I don't think we're going to be able to do business." Me: "my name's not Chris."

gsrthomas

iTrader: (1)

If its not a contract dont even expect that much of a discount.

I would use that "error" to my favor. Just continue agreeing with the dealer as if you are still purchasing the car and when your car does come in and he mysteriously raises the price on you I would tell him to give me $5k off.. For the error then. I doubt he would buge, I know people in Cali got 3k off msrp. Worth a try. I wouldnt want to purchase a brand new car from a dealer that lies to me.

picus

I'm surprised you put up with him. I'd have left the first time he got my name wrong. I'd have probably let the sales manager know what a ***** he is, too.