chiawei

That depends on how well IS350 sells and actual price paid.

But in order for IS350 to beat 330i in terms of $$$, IS needs to be discounted close to $5k. On the GS300, the difference between invoice and MSRP is about $5k. (That is on a base car with MSRP $43,800). The base price on the IS350 is $35k. I really don't think there is room for lexus dealer to sell the car at invoice or below.

Bottom line is that from my perspective of not keeping the car past their warranty period. In order for IS350 to be on same level financially, I must buy IS350 at invoice or below for it just to match the $$ hit i would get on the 330i.

pelucidor

I think the IS350 pricing is pretty good. Nobody is forcing a buyer to get EVERY SINGLE bell and whistle (it would need to be custom ordered too) - I am surprised that so many people complain that a fully loaded IS350 might cost the same or more than a regularly equipped BMW 330i.

I drove and priced out the 330i I wanted at $48k with Premium, Cold Weather, Auto, Comfort Access, NAV, Active Steering, 6-disc CD player (in trunk) and Power Sunshade (naturally BMW charges $475 for metallic paint too). It was missing ventilated seats, rear view camera, decent NAV system (Lexus/Acura are miles ahead), decent sound system (ML in Lexus is miles ahead), an in-dash CD-changer and many other features. If we could add those missing features to the BMW I would expect it to price around $55k or more - in the case of the IS350 I expect the price to be about $43k (with Premium Luxury Plus, NAV and ML). Huge savings in my opinion over the BMW - but only because 330i is very overpriced, the IS350 is just OK value when compared to a G35 or TL.

Also comparing Euro Delivery price saving whilst ignoring the cost of it is not really fair. If Lexus offered Japan Delivery for a $6k saving would you go for it? Remember a $1000 ticket per person, hotel cost, paying for kenneling for any pets you may have, several days time off from work (for some people over $1000 per day), etc plus general pain of intercontinental airplane travel (I used to fly over 150k miles per year when I used to live in Europe and Asia - it takes a lot to get me onto an international flight nowadays). If I wanted to save a bunch of money on the Lexus I would just wait about 6 months when it will be selling for $3k+ below MSRP.

jrock65

IS350 (Premium Lux. Plus w/ 17's, ML/Navi, Parking Assist, Headight washers): $44,175

330i (Premium Pack., Cold Pack., Auto, Comfort Access, Sunshade, Park distance control, Navi, 6 CD changer): $46,305

I think that's as similar as you can equip them.

As mentioned, the IS has things that the 330i does not, but the 330i does have some things like split fold rear seats and free maintenance that the IS does not offer.

chiawei

Couple thing you are wrong on that.

1. BMW has special deal with Lufthansa. And depends on time of season, you can actually fly free for both you and companion. (BMW promotion last year include round trip from any city in US to munich for $0). At most, I have seen people pay $1000 for two to travel prior to peak tourist season (right before octoberfest).

2. With ED, you don't have to stay in europe. If your body can tolerate it, you can fly back the same day. There is no restriction.

3. I guess you don't take vacation at all. I treat ED as part of my vacation. To bring this into discussion is reaching at best.

4. ML/HK are owned by same group. To be honest. E90's HK logic 7 has better sound quality but weak bass. Which is typical of all BMW in lack a usable bass. But from sound quality, I prefer the BMW head unit with logic 7 because its more crisp and clear. But that is subjective.

5. Navi system, having used both lexus/toyota and BMW current system. Both are actually quiet powerful and quiet easy to use. We are no talking about POS mercedes navi. BMW navi has come a long way since 1997 CD rom based dinosour. Its voice command is quiet useful as well. To be honest, both would take back seat to any navi offered by honda/acura.

6. Like i said, no one pays full MSRP on BMW. A good shopper would take the ED route with combination of vacation. The way i see it is simple. I am getting a cheaper car along with vacation. Even adding one week in europe. I seriously doubt that my vacation will cost $5k to offset the price penalty on the IS350.

7. To be fair. I am simply comparing actual cost to me as of today. You can't ignore the fact that ED program exist. Nor you can ignore the fact that BMWCCA rebate exists. Moreover, you can't ignore the fact that I don't need to pay for maint for 4 years and free brake jobs on top of that. A loaded IS350 with all cost considered, cost me $5k more than a loaded 330i. Simple as that.

I am going to wrap up my ED soon. So far airfare i know is around $400 for two on lufuthansa out of SFO through ED program. Hotel from experience using priceline.com (3 start or better) is about $60 to $80 per night (pending location). We will most likely spend 5 days in europe. Roughly speaking about $400 in hotel. That still leaves me at least $4k to spend during those 5 days. (based on my earlier calculation of IS selling at $43k fully loaded).

Even in several month, when IS price comes down by $2k. That would still mean that IS still costed me $3k more. Why spent 3k more and get nothing in return, in which I can take the 3k and have a nice vacation.

If lexus does offer a japan delivery (which is not possible, since majority of customer will not be able to get used to drive on the right hand side), and offer substantial discount. Then it would make financial sense. But the bottom line Lexus simply does not offer program like this.

jrock65

IS350 w/ Destination: $36,090

Premium Luxury Plus w/ 17's: $3,495

Heated/ventilated/perforated seats
Memory for seats, mirrors, and wheel
Auto-dimming outside mirrors with tilt-down
Illuminated aluminum scuff plates
Wood trim
AFS/HID
Rain-sensing wipers
Power tilt/telescope wheel
Power rear sunshade

----------------------------------------------------------

Parking assist: $500
Headlight washers: $100
Navi/ML: $3,990

Total: $44,175

jmcphillip

I don't see how 3495 for that package could be right. That is way to high for small items. I know they add up but I don't see 3495 in them

MatadorIS

I've been trying to figure out a reasonable estimate for the Premium Luxury Plus package, based on the other models like the GS and RX.

Here's what I have so far...
Mirror functions = 100 (guess)
Illuminated scuff plate = 100 (guess)
Power rear sunshade = 210 (from GS)
Seat memory = 140 (similar to ES)
HID/AFS = 815 (from RX)
Rain-sensing wipers = 125 (from RX)
Total = $1490 (additional cost over the Premium Plus package)

jrock65

Assuming that the option prices are the same for the IS250.

IS250 RWD Auto w/ Destination: $31,810

Premium Luxury Plus w/ 17's: $3,495

Heated/ventilated/perforated seats
Memory for seats, mirrors, and wheel
Auto-dimming outside mirrors with tilt-down
Illuminated aluminum scuff plates
Wood trim
AFS/HID
Rain-sensing wipers
Power tilt/telescope wheel
Power rear sunshade

----------------------------------------------------------

Parking assist: $500
Headlight washers: $100
Navi/ML: $3,990

Total: $39,895

jrock65

Well, I think $3,495 is reasonable for this package.

Premium Luxury Plus w/ 17's: (Guessing on prices)

Heated/ventilated/perforated seats: $600
Memory for seats, mirrors, and wheel: $400
Auto-dimming outside mirrors with tilt-down: $300
Illuminated aluminum scuff plates: $200
Wood trim: $400
AFS/HID: $900
Rain-sensing wipers: $200
Power tilt/telescope wheel: $300
Power rear sunshade: $200

Total: $3,500

pelucidor

Why can't you just sort out payments and contracts etc from the USA and wait here for the car to be shipped from the factory in Germany? That would be a huge benefit to some.

I have been to Germany maybe 7 times, and Japan 10 times. Of the 55 countries I have visited Germany is not in the top 20 of places I want to visit on vacation - nowadays I would rather stay at home or visit family in UK, Singapore and Australia. I like vacations, but only to places I want to go to, not where I am forced to go to (that is what work is for...).

I know HK acquired ML about 10 years ago as their upmarket brand (but so what - Proton acquired Lotus and VW acquired Lamborghini - that doesn't make the parent brands equal to the sub-brands). I prefer the ML sound by far. Subjective, as you state.

Good info on BMW NAV system - thanks. I have not used the BMW nav and assumed it was as pathetic as the MB one. I love the Acura NAVs and thought this 5th gen IS350 NAV would be as good as the Acuras, but have not tried it out for more than 10 secs (beautiful screen however). I will not be as dismissive of BMW NAV in future, except to note i-drive comes with it


Anyway I congratulate you on getting a great car and for going to a little effort to get it for a good price. I drove the E90 at the Taste of Lexus event in NY and was very impressed with the grip and handling and overall feel. It would be a boring world if everyone liked exactly the same things.

cooney

pelucidor and chiawei, please could one of you (either one) let the other have the last word?

Your endless detailed responses to each other have gotten not only repetitive but also way off topic.

encore888

Interesting, the IS 250 retains 'lowest cost Lexus' at $31,160 automatic RWD

Comparatively, the ES 330 starts out at $32,950 automatic FWD

encore888

So much for the 5.5 secs...bring on 5.3 secs!

LexFather

This is almost exactly what I said months ago. Gotta find my post

STIG

I am happy with the pricing for IS350! very happy! i could care less about all the bundles and stuff or options. I just want a bare bone IS350 that goes from 0 to 60 in 5.3 seconds. 35K sounds really awesome to me!

Ok may be i might add navi and sport package, but that's all. Just have to wait until i can buy IS350 for Invoice+500$!