SeventyGTX

I went and looked at one a couple of weeks ago, but did not have the wife with me at the time. I did a quick ride around the block one and loved the luxury and comfort aspect of the car, but never jumped on the throttle.

Yesterday, my wife and I made the 70 mile trip to the dealer so she could actually see and drive one. I drove it first and told the salesman I was going to stomp on the throttle, and I did. I was somewhat let down by the supposed 295 horsepower. My wifes current 265 horse 05 Acura MDX would have walked away from it.

The RX350 seemed to have more punch even though it is rated lower in hp. Granted, the 350 is lighter, plus we had 3 in the 450h, instead of 2 when I test drove the 350. We still have one on order from Japan, so its not a deal breaker, just a bit disappointing that the passing power wont be what we are used to. Maybe the 60+ passing speeds will be better than when I jumped on it from 30 mph. Anyone out there wish they had more power?

mcomer

A cold car with only double digit mileage on the odometer won't represent it's future performance. A Hybrid with a half charged traction battery + cold etc will certainly not impress anyone. Stay the course and get the 450h
broken in, use the premium fuel that's called for and check again. 0 to 60 is published as 1/2 second quicker
than the 350. Once you realize you are getting nearly 30 mpg city rather than 20 you will be a believer.

kitlz

SeventyGTX, were you in eco mode? The 450h is more reactive and punchier when it's turned off. And there's plenty of power. I'm admittedly a little more on the spirited side when it comes to driving. But I also enjoy cruising near the speed limit too. It's something that happens with the RXh. You don't mind taking the long way home.

The 450h is a smidge slower than the the RX350. Not bad considering the 500 extra pounds. And no, I'm not talking about your third passenger during the test drive If I wanted more 'power,' I'd get something like Cruiter's C7.

SeventyGTX

Honestly, I have no idea what mode it was in. I do know the previous one I drove seemed snappier, and again have no idea what mode that one was in. Not really looking for a Ferrari eater, just don't really want to go backwards from my wife's current 10 year old Acura, especially when spending over $60k out the door. With the Acura I KNOW when I step on it, I AM going to get around that big rig in short order.

I am sure they get better after they get some miles on them and hoping the mode it was in makes a difference. Being a car guy my entire life, I'm used to a tach and it's weird not having any idea what the engine is doing. Either way, we are 90% sure this one we ordered will be in our garage soon. After looking at several other brands, we always come back to the Lexus.

Droid13

It's all about the torque. Even though the RX450H has more HP, it has less torque than the RX350. Atkinson cycle engines used in hybrids are not very good at torque, the reason why they just don't put these more fuel efficient engines in all cars. Without the torque provided by the electric motors, the 245HP engine by itself in the RX450H would feel like a Yaris with flat tires coming off the line. Your comparison of the 05 MDX, even with it having a lower HP rating than both the 350 and 450, it actually has better torque numbers the either, so it would feel more peppy when you stomp on it.

The difference in torque is much more noticeable at slower speeds, once you start moving and push for higher speeds the different in HP will become more pronounced. This makes the RX450H just a hair faster than the RX350 (according to various comparisons I've seen), but it never feels like it and always has a more subdued personality.

User 41924

I'll start off with the standard disclaimer that neither the 350 nor the 450 are intended to be race cars. They simply have a different purpose, but we ALL know that.

That said, I personally like to go fast, so I've thought about this. The real issue for me is the perception of speed I get, and I think there are 3 issues that make me feel like the 450 slow, even though the numbers say it isn't (relatively speaking).

1) It's a Lexus, and Lexus WANTS to isolate the driver from the road and the sensation of speed. Whether this is a good thing or bad, I personally think they excel at meeting this objective.
2) The throttle response is an issue. I attribute this to the throttle mapping, because it is mostly resolved by putting the car in "sport" mode. However, the wait for the ICE to kick in when starting from a stop seems to exaggerate the sensation.
3) To me, the biggest reason it seems slow is the CV transmission. It simply sounds like it can't be fast, because the transmission sounds like it's slipping. It's a bit unnatural to me, but that's a different story. It helped me a lot to read about the Toyota/Lexus implementation of the CVT, and to understand the technology, programming, and thought process behind it. I can now appreciate what it adds to the performance, but I still don't like the sound.

For me, the real test of the acceleration of our 450 came the first time I had to overtake a car on a 2 lane highway. After waiting (a LONG time) for a sufficient opportunity, I nailed the accelerator and moved around the car. I was back in my lane in what felt like a heartbeat. It was impressive, and I was going WAY too fast when I completed the pass. It was great, although a bit surprising! There is also plenty of acceleration for merging into an interstate, and I do enjoy surprising people from a stoplight, occasionally.

I really like our 450. Can you tell?

ericsan13

See my posts here on 450h vs 350. 350 is rated slightly faster in 0-60, FWIW. I have seen a lot of claims and personal experience stating the 450h is faster, however little data to back it up. The majority of official Lexus and independent tests find the 350 to be faster.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...ml#post8734727

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...ml#post8734912

However I think the question you are asking is:
"Is anyone disappointed with the 450h/350 performance relative to other manufacturers?"

The answer is yes, Lexus is seen as an old and slow brand almost across all models when compared with their counterparts. I would really like to see Lexus do more to change this other than just throwing F-Sport marketing terms at us, but Lexus favors reliability/fuel economy over performance.

In the end, we are here because even though there are faster cars out there, we chose a big plush SUV with superior reliability.

-Eric

Droid13

A lot of people will recognize this as a common complaint with Toyota's hybrids. It's interesting how the human brain makes associations like this, that performance must obviously and naturally be accompanied by the changing pitch of an engine constantly changing RPMs and that anything else is unworthy, even if the logic of it is understood. I drove my fair share of standards back in the day and can appreciate that feeling too.


I also used to fly small private planes in my youth and performance levels were set by maintaining specific engine RPMs. In this case it would be wholly unnatural to hear the engine rpms change while accelerating for take off (unless you enjoy the feeling of impending doom). Boats and train locomotives are examples of other vehicles that optimally output power without wide range continuous variation in engine RPMs. It seems that the sound of a car going through the gears is actually the oddball, not the norm.

I've been doing a fair bit of international travel this past year, and started to notice that in particular, the Airbus 320/321 aircraft engine sound at take off has this interesting whine to it that reminds me of my RX450H at full acceleration. It's not exactly the same, but it is pleasingly similar. I would be interested in finding out if an equivalent thrust rating could be made for the RXh, somehow that seems more appropriate to me now.

vlad_a

Andy, funny you should mention airplanes. The first time I test-drove a Prius, I was thinking it felt like a plane taking off.

RX450h is no slouch! In fact, it is 0.3 seconds quicker to the 60MPH than RX350 F-Sport. It is only a tad bit slower than my IS300. It is all about perception of the Toyota PSD (Power Split Device), which technically qualifies as a form of CVT, but it really isn't.

The throttle response is refreshingly immediate, something most modern cars are lacking. There are no delays or any type of thinking or switching, it is just there.

Now, it is entirely possible that the traction battery had been discharged. If that was the case, I could see the RX450h running slower and RX350, as the buffer power is not there. That is not a typical situation for the hybrid.

Cruiter

Don, glad you placed the order and you will be glad as well. No worries. The RX 450h is a pretty complex beast with a lot of pleasant surprises you'll discover over time. The previous used word perception can be taken as things are not always as they seem . As Anita said you might/could have been in ECO mode which in theory gives the best mileage as it re-maps the electronic throttle feed (personally I never use it and still get great mileage with my foot). It will definitely make the car seem less peppy. And as Woodrow (Woody) said, just wait till you're in a good passing situation. If you're having too much fun, your wife just might tell you to cool the jets a bit. And with the CVT, it all sounds different. The important thing is it all works and does it well. The longer you drive it, the more you'll appreciate the good things and the Lexus way .

Yep, Anita said it right as she had a chance to evaluate the 7th generation Corvette like the one I own. Now if you can get one of those for your daily driver you'll have fascinating dreams at night, I do

Stay in touch

kitlz

LOL Jim. I was waiting for you to put in your two cents. The C7 was a blast to drive at Monticello last year. But I'm faithful to the 450h.

Woody, thanks for your valuable input as a former 350 and now 450h owner. I know the lack of gear shift certainly causes me to lose sense of speed when I do those accelerations on the highway. A quick glance at HUD puts me back into reality I've used the 450h's power to get away from slow, inattentive drivers and maybe surprise a few others too. It's fun to do every once in a while.

SeventyGTX, if the gas pedal felt heavy, you were probably in eco mode. There's a green eco light on the dash to let you know also. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised the more you discover the 450h. Like I said before, it might change your driving style. That's part of the attraction. And don't worry, you'll get around that big rig just fine. Make sure you keep an eye on the speedometer

SeventyGTX

Thanks for all the encouragement folks. The dealer called today, and our fairly loaded Starfire Pearl/Parchment-Bamboo 450 w/Sport Appearance Package is scheduled to be here between the 1st and 6th of next month. She said it is coming from Canada, whereas when we ordered it, they said Japan. She is checking to confirm that, but she said she believes all hybrids are built in Canada. I was really hoping it comes from Japan as I know from experience in the automotive collision side of things for 40 years, the difference between US and Japanese built Toyota's.

Cruiter

Well as you can tell from my sig photo, I think you made an excellent color choice . Don't sweat too much if it comes from Canada. The word was out last year they were switching the US cars from Japan to Canada and the plant had been thoroughly prepared for them. You'll be ok.

Photos please after getting the ride home

oohpapi44

iTrader: (1)

lol exactly... Getting tired of replying firsthand experience in knowing I've driven both and the 450 is definitely faster than the 350.

OP, do another 'spirited' run (as much as you can in an RX) making sure ECO mode is off and see if the results are the same. Especially if already moving, you'd know you were in a 450 vs the 350.

SeventyGTX

It's going to be a long couple of weeks waiting, but I did find a pic on the net of one exactly like we are getting. I probably seem overly anxious about this car as it is by far the most we have ever spent on a vehicle, even a little more than our motor home although it was slightly used. Plus being totally new to hybrids adds to the anxiety. Anyway, here is the pic I found of a Starfire Pearl 450h with the sport appearance package. Quite a beauty I would say.