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Hybrid TechnologyUnique topics related to the GS450H model hybrid drivetrain and other features/options found only on the GS450H. Please use the main 4GS forum for discussion about shared components with other fourth generation GS models.
I was just researching the 2013 & 2014 GS450h models and I had a few questions on the headlamps.
What comes standard with the car are the BI-XENON™ HIGH-INTENSITY DISCHARGE HEADLAMPS:
"High-Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps provide illumination up to three times that of conventional halogen headlamps while reducing power consumption by roughly 30 percent. They also feature auto-leveling that automatically adjusts the angle of the headlamps to help reduce glare to oncoming drivers."
What you get with the Luxury Package are the Bi-LED Headlights with Adaptive Front Lighting System:
"Illumination is taken to the next level with Bi-LED headlamps, LED daytime running lights and dynamic auto leveling, and the Dual-swivel Adaptive Front Lighting System*, which helps illuminate curves by rotating the headlamps right or left."
According to the georgee1 (https://www.clublexus.com/forums/hyb...ml#post8703466), the Bi-LED headlights with AFS are now coming as standard on the base 2015 GS450h (due to the F-Sport package now being offered), but I'm looking at the older models so I wanted to get some opinions.
My question really is - are the standard Bi-Xenon not nearly as good as the Bi-LED headlights? I obviously know about the advantages of LED vs Xenon (HID), but for practical usage - is there is a big difference? Do the LED lights provide more light & a greater field of vision during night time driving?
If anyone could compare them or shed some light (no pun intended) on the topic, that would be excellent... especially if you have experience with both.
This topic was brought up because of a few reviews of the car on edmunds. One reviewer said "Unless you purchase the Luxury pkg., you can't get the LED headlamps w/AFS. The regular bi-Xenon headlamps provide minimal illumination and are worse than any we've ever had on our Lexus autos."
Another reviewer said: "The bi-xenon HID lights are simply no comparision to the bright and expansive headlamps we expected. They've checked them out thoroughly, but no, that's what you get. A critical component that nobody ever addresses! The LED lamps that come with the luxury package are impossible to find on any Lexus lot, so a comparison is, well, impossible to date. My suspicion is that the LED lights are better; otherwise, why would they be available only with the luxury package.
It certainly is a good car otherwise. It's got more features than you can shake a stick at. But, what's the use if you don't feel comfortable driving this car at night.
Improve the illumination qualities of the headlamps radically. They do not illuminate much and are too limited in the distance they do illuminate."
Honestly, not that big of a difference. There is no way you would hop into a Bi-Xenon equipped car and be disappointed with the light output. I would say there is also little chance you would hop in an LED equipped car and say "WOW! those the best headlights I've ever seen!" There is a difference, but you'd probably have to put them side by side to be able to tell any drastic difference.
I have the LED headlights on my GSh. They provide uniform, bright white illumination of the road ahead. The AFS is highly effective in putting the light where you need it. The movement of the light seems very natural. It does not distract you, it just lights the road where you're looking. Without exception, passengers who have ridden in my car at night have remarked about how good the headlights are.
Not for anything, but the front end styling is impressive with the triple LEDs.
I can't speak to a comparison with the Xenon HID lights. I've not driven these lights at night.
I read those reviews also about the standard bi-xenon lights and I really don't get where they are coming from. I have a 350 with the standard bi-xenon lights and they are excellent. Pretty much the same as every other vehicle I've ever had with HID lights, which is many, a 2013 GS, 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 2010 Lexus ES350, 2004 Lexus LS430, 2004 Toyota Prius, 2003 Lexus ES300, 1998 Lexus LS400.
My HIDs have the adaptive front lighting and it is excellent, as it was in my 2010 ES.
I have not driven a GS with the LED lights, but I have driven an IS with the LED lights and I was actually underwhelmed, I thought the output wasn't as good, and the bluer look wasn't as bright as the whiter HIDs.
Based on that experience I think on my next car when I likely will have an option between LEDs and HIDs (another GS or an LS) I would probably opt for the HIDs.
The LED lights look much cooler from an aesthetic perspective.
AND the LEDs (at least on my 13 LS460) throw this this weird purple color light all around the the edge of their illumination field. This has the effect of turning reflective road signs into a grotesque and distracting purple color when you first see them before the "regular" light takes over. Ugh!
Just wanted to thank you all for your opinions & sharing your knowledge on the topic.
My assumption based on those reviews was that the HID headlamps were a big downgrade and didn't provide enough illumination on the road at night. Obviously that's not the case based on all the responses here.
I think the GS was the first Lexus to use LEDs for high and low beam headlights, as well the fog lights. Previous LS and IS models featured LED low beams.
The color temperature of the LEDs on the GSh is around 6,000 K, which is in the daylight range and very white. You can start to detect a blue shift (which is perceived in daylight) around 5,000K, but you need to get up to around 8,000K for the blue to really affect the definition of objects on the road. I do not like excessively blue headlights, but the LEDs on the GSh are not excessively blue.
Xenon HIDs are produced in various color temperature ranges. I believe Lexus are in the range of 4,100K, which begins to have a yellow shift, but still pretty white. I drove HIDs on my MB E350 for years, and they were great, but the LEDs on my GSh are better.
I took the car out last night to look for the purple fringe, and didn't see it. That would not come from the diode itself, so it's likely a prismatic effect in the lens. Perhaps they've done a better job on the projector lenses with the GSh.
The LEDs are rated at 15,000 hours and don't exhibit lumen depreciation over their lifetime. The long life is a good thing, because these types of LEDs are very expensive. HIDs also last a long time (2,000 hours) compared to previous generation halogens and other incandescents. They exhibit moderate lumen depreciation. In either case, that's more night driving than you're likely to do over the life of the vehicle.
At the end of the day, it's the performance of the system that matters. The light source, the lens, and the adaptive lighting system if equipped. If an LED system is not well engineered, it can exhibit undesirable artifacts. The LEDs on the GSh do not have that problem.
I think the GS was the first Lexus to use LEDs for high and low beam headlights, as well the fog lights. Previous LS and IS models featured LED low beams.
Both the 2013-2014 LS and 2014 IS have LED high and low beams. The IS I drove was all LED, high and low beam and certainly Will's LS460 is all LED.
The color temperature of the LEDs on the GSh is around 6,000 K, which is in the daylight range and very white. You can start to detect a blue shift (which is perceived in daylight) around 5,000K, but you need to get up to around 8,000K for the blue to really affect the definition of objects on the road. I do not like excessively blue headlights, but the LEDs on the GSh are not excessively blue.
The important thing to realize about color temperature is that 4100-4300k is the optimum color temperature for output, this is the color temperature of OEM HIDs for almost all manufacturers. When you go higher in the spectrum you loose output. I would bet money that the LED lights actually have less visible output than the HIDs, that was certainly the case with the LEDs on the IS loaner I had. Just tonight driving home I was beside a new E350 convertible with the upgrade LED lights. Looking at his light pattern on the road and mine...mine looked whiter and looked brighter.
I believe OEM LEDs are 5,000k not 6,000k. If you look at 6,000k HIDs they're pretty blue, and have considerably less output than OEM 4100k HIDs.
I'll have to drive some other cars with LED headlights but I gotta say, I'm not feeling the benefit over HID.
Ty for the all the information georgee1 and very interesting observations SW13GS. I wish that I had cars with both options to test side by side at NIGHT (when dealerships are usually closed) or in a really dark place.
I have a feeling that it would be hard to distinguish between them (besides maybe how "yellow" or "white" of a tint they output on the road). Aesthetically, I do love the look of the LED lights - it goes along with the front fascia quite well.
Did they offer the LED light as a stand alone option on the 2013-2014 models? Based on my research, I can only find it bundled together with the luxury package.
P.S. - georgee1, if you ever look to sell your car within a year, keep me in mind please. lol It's hard to find fully loaded, used GS450h's, especially in the Nebula Gray with Black & Bamboo combination. That's my ideal car!
Both the 2013-2014 LS and 2014 IS have LED high and low beams. The IS I drove was all LED, high and low beam and certainly Will's LS460 is all LED.
The important thing to realize about color temperature is that 4100-4300k is the optimum color temperature for output, this is the color temperature of OEM HIDs for almost all manufacturers. When you go higher in the spectrum you loose output. I would bet money that the LED lights actually have less visible output than the HIDs, that was certainly the case with the LEDs on the IS loaner I had. Just tonight driving home I was beside a new E350 convertible with the upgrade LED lights. Looking at his light pattern on the road and mine...mine looked whiter and looked brighter.
I believe OEM LEDs are 5,000k not 6,000k. If you look at 6,000k HIDs they're pretty blue, and have considerably less output than OEM 4100k HIDs.
I'll have to drive some other cars with LED headlights but I gotta say, I'm not feeling the benefit over HID.
If you look back on the announcement of the 2013 GS, Lexus did make the statement that it was the first Lexus vehicle model introduced with bi-LED headlights. You are correct, the LS also featured the bi-LED headlights for the 2013 model year.
I do have access to the technical specs, so I'll look up the actual color temp and lumen output for the various US spec GS lighting systems and post what I find. I don't think it's protected information.
I'm really curious to see the GS HID system and compare it to the LED system on my car. One of the TMS managers I work with has a 2014 GS350 with HIDs so I'll see if I can talk him into meeting me one night so I can compare.
As I noted on a previous post, it's the overall design and performance of the lighting system that matters. The LED headlight system in the IS and ES is not the same as the GS, so it may not be a valid comparison.
This all being said, I'm reading a consensus that the reviewers at Edmunds must have driven through a mud flat and neglected to clean the headlight lenses before documenting their observations on the GS HIDs. I've met a number of Lexus engineers on their visits to Torrance and these guys don't design junk.
If you look back on the announcement of the 2013 GS, Lexus did make the statement that it was the first Lexus vehicle model introduced with bi-LED headlights. You are correct, the LS also featured the bi-LED headlights for the 2013 model year.
And the IS came out after the GS, and also has the bi-LED lights. GS came out first, so obviously it was the first...but the IS and LS have the same lights.
As I noted on a previous post, it's the overall design and performance of the lighting system that matters. The LED headlight system in the IS and ES is not the same as the GS, so it may not be a valid comparison.
No LEDs on the ES. I'm willing to cede that perhaps the lights on the IS aren't as sophisticated as those on the GS, but the lights on the LS I'm not willing to cede that point.
The original topic of the thread was the choice between the HID and LED headlight systems on the GS, and the concerns about the performance of the HID system raised by the Edmunds review.
The headlight systems on the IS, GS, and LS are of different designs and have different features and performance specifications. Subjective observations are relevant because specifications don't tell the whole story of how well any particular driver can visualize the road using various lighting systems, but if we want to answer the original poster's question, it is most useful to compare the GS systems directly.
I'll see what specs I can get if the information is not protected, and I'll ask the guy I work with if we can compare the lights some night and post some pictures.
As to the original poster's question, it's likely that he would not be unhappy with the Xenon HID system, but he also need not be concerned about dim, blue, purple-fringed lighting if he goes with the LEDs, at least not on the GS.
Lets just say that with the experience I've had with OEM LED lighting lately, albeit not on the GS specifically, I would not spend $1 for LED vs HID lighting.
The HID specs are readily available: Phillips or Toshiba D4S 4300K Xenon
Power: 35W
Luminous Flux: 3,050 LM
Color Temperature: 4,100K (known as 4300K)
Rated Life: 2,500 - 3,000 hrs
The LED system does not have any user-replaceable parts. The system specifications are not in the parts database. I actually went and looked at the unit. The LED module is marked as a CREE XM-L2. The question is what power rating. If it's the 20W module (educated guess, it could be 25W), then the specs would be: CREE H7 XM-L2
Power: 20W
Luminous Flux: 2,400 LM
Color Temperature: ANSI White 6,000K
Rated Life: 30,000 hrs
I wanted to look at the IS unit to see if it uses the same LED, but I had already worn out my welcome. The IS, by the way, does use the same D4S HID bulb, with a different lens configuration.
One thing to keep in mind is that the US market will always lag in headlight technology due to NHTSA regulations which limit configuration and light output for headlights on US roads. In Europe, Audi is pioneering matrix LEDs with "beam shaping" which will allow higher light output on the road without the risk of dazzling other drivers. The next technology, shown on some concept vehicles, is LASER headlights.
I'll post some pictures if I get the chance to compare my GSh with bi-LEDs with my colleagues GS350 bi-Xenon HID lights.
09-10-14, 11:55 AM
Headlamps on the 2013-2014 models
