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Old 05-22-14, 04:36 PM   #16
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I like your way of thinking! This is a real possibility. Thank you for taking time to share these thoughts.

No, I was not considering other vehicles while working on the order for the RX450h. I have since. And I have learned that other dealers are a delight to work with in comparison.

You're welcome.

Curious which other vehicles you were considering so we can steer you away from them? Kidding aside, we are a very objective group here so please share.
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Old 05-22-14, 05:13 PM   #17
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corrado, Allannde can't get another vehicle. It's in the fine print when he signed up
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Old 05-22-14, 09:59 PM   #18
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corrado, Allannde can't get another vehicle. It's in the fine print when he signed up
Anita, you put a big smile on my face and corrado, you make me stand a little taller. And these are good things because tonight, I am feeling the effects of being shaken by this whole thing. I want to trust the people with whom I do business, but this is hard right now.

I did some research before ordering this RX450h and I learned that the three Lexus dealers in the Seattle area (5 hours away) all require a $10,000 "Non Refundable Deposit" on special order cars and the Portland, Oregon dealer (7 hours away) requires a $6,000 "Non Refundable Deposit" for special order cars from out of town customers. Would they refund such a deposit if they chose to cancel the order? I would expect something to that effect in writing after all of this. But the name given these deposits raises question.

Are Lexus buyers expected not to care about such sums of money? I care.

It is such a disappointment to me that the Spokane Lexus dealer gave me this experience. This should have been a good experience with such a good (and expensive) car.
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Old 05-23-14, 03:10 AM   #19
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Allannde,

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Larry H. Miller Lexus was never able to find a driver who could demonstrate the car for me and I made three special trips for that purpose.
What does this mean? They had a car with hand controls, but no one to show you how the controls worked? Or they couldn't find a salesperson to show you how a standard 450h worked? This really seems like a clue this dealership is flaky.

This whole story seems like deja vu to me from years gone by. Anita and Jim my memory is weak do you remember a story like this. A "search" of Miller Lexus turned up some minor things, but not this "I don't want you as a customer" type of story.

Allande, years ago we all had trouble playing iPods and I tried several methods of getting an answer. It wasn't until I went to Facebook did I get an answer. An answer within an hour of posting something. If you feel you still want some assistance, Facebook might be the answer for you. I'm not suggesting burning the Miller dealership on Facebook, as that maybe a bridge you might not wish to burn.

Driving five hours to a dealership is out of the question, in my mind. Ten hours round trip, not including the time involved in the actual service provided. Whew, that's a bit much.
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Old 05-23-14, 05:00 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Allannde View Post
Anita, you put a big smile on my face and corrado, you make me stand a little taller. And these are good things because tonight, I am feeling the effects of being shaken by this whole thing. I want to trust the people with whom I do business, but this is hard right now.

I did some research before ordering this RX450h and I learned that the three Lexus dealers in the Seattle area (5 hours away) all require a $10,000 "Non Refundable Deposit" on special order cars and the Portland, Oregon dealer (7 hours away) requires a $6,000 "Non Refundable Deposit" for special order cars from out of town customers. Would they refund such a deposit if they chose to cancel the order? I would expect something to that effect in writing after all of this. But the name given these deposits raises question.

Are Lexus buyers expected not to care about such sums of money? I care.

It is such a disappointment to me that the Spokane Lexus dealer gave me this experience. This should have been a good experience with such a good (and expensive) car.


A deposit isn't unusual. I had to give one to my dealer of 10+ years at the time. But the amount was $3K. I can't recall if my sales guy said it was non-refundable. But I don't believe the crock about being stuck with the vehicle if I changed my mind. Puhlease, it's not like I wanted hot pink with matching interior, LOL! I'd ask the other dealers how many special orders they've done and also how many people canceled to try negotiate a lower down payment. Paying close to 20% up front should not be required. Also negotiate price. I was told no discounts but I still got one.

Another option, ask the dealers to do an inventory search. Every once in a while there's a well equipped RXh that might work for you.

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This whole story seems like deja vu to me from years gone by. Anita and Jim my memory is weak do you remember a story like this.
None come to mind but a few people have had problems placing special orders. I guess some dealers prefer to sell what's on their lot than be bothered getting a vehicle a customer wants. Not sure why because it's a sale

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Driving five hours to a dealership is out of the question, in my mind. Ten hours round trip, not including the time involved in the actual service provided. Whew, that's a bit much.
Fly out, drive back. And this from someone who's crossed the country in his 450h
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Old 05-23-14, 10:16 AM   #21
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Allannde,

What does this mean? They had a car with hand controls, but no one to show you how the controls worked? Or they couldn't find a salesperson to show you how a standard 450h worked? This really seems like a clue this dealership is flaky.

This whole story seems like deja vu to me from years gone by. Anita and Jim my memory is weak do you remember a story like this. A "search" of Miller Lexus turned up some minor things, but not this "I don't want you as a customer" type of story.

Allande, years ago we all had trouble playing iPods and I tried several methods of getting an answer. It wasn't until I went to Facebook did I get an answer. An answer within an hour of posting something. If you feel you still want some assistance, Facebook might be the answer for you. I'm not suggesting burning the Miller dealership on Facebook, as that maybe a bridge you might not wish to burn.

Driving five hours to a dealership is out of the question, in my mind. Ten hours round trip, not including the time involved in the actual service provided. Whew, that's a bit much.
What this means is that they could not find someone to drive the car. They did not, and I did not expect them to have, a car with hand controls. As I think about it, they could have tried to make arrangements later for a demonstration, but they seemed to forget about me as soon as I went away. And then it was really hard to get their attention when I tried to contact them later. I tried to avoid the thought that they did not want to sell me a car, but it began to seem that way.

When they actually took my order, I thought that they really did want to sell me a car.

Then they canceled it.

It is clear that they gave me bad service. They admitted to that. I probably didn't help the situation by saying that the service needed to improve. I was concerned that the ownership experience would not be good if they did not take proper care of me.

Several people have said that except for warranty service, there are other alternatives. But warranty service can involve subjective decisions either to support or not to support the customer and these can have large costs connected to them. It is good to have a trusting working relationship with the service department.


Anita has a point about flying to the remote dealer to pick up the car and driving home. For later service, your point about a ten hour round trip makes sense.

All things considered, this is not easy.
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Old 05-23-14, 02:10 PM   #22
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Yeah, like Anita eluded to, a deposit is normal but $10K is high. My IS and now NX on order required just $1K but I'm in Canada.

AND, I can still backout of it since like Anita said as well, the dealer can just sell it to the next person especially on a hot seller like the RX. Now if you were to special order an LS 600hL at 150K, well then I'd understand the non-refundable deposit disclaimer since a dealer only sells a handful at most per year of this particular model.

So in your situation, you need to make sure they will accommodate your requirements before you commit to 1. a 5 hr (10hr) drive and 2. a $10K deposit. There's no law that will protect the dealer if THEY cancel the order since they will be breaking the contract so I would not worry about the "non-refundable" deposit part. But again, to avoid all this miscommunication and missing expectations, key thing is send them an email (in writing) explaining your situation and get their commitment to sell you the vehicle before you make the trip. If they sound sincere and willing to do business, thumbs up - make the trip, sign the deal, and anxiously await your new h!
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Old 05-23-14, 02:25 PM   #23
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Allannde, as I already mentioned, the chance of a warranty issue coming up is remote. If it does, you're better off going to the local dealer than making a 10+ hour trek. Chances are you'll be fine. I've done it myself when a check engine light went on in the 330 driving to work. I absolutely detest the local dealer because of an experience I had when I looked at the RX there. Sound familiar? But it's the closest one. The SA gave me a funny look when he pulled up my information, no doubt because he saw where I bought it. Bottom line, the RX was fixed in about an hour. It was an O2 sensor, covered under warranty. While I wasn't happy about going there, the repair was done without any issues. I didn't have to go back either. So it can happen, just not often if at all. Try not to let a possible warranty issue dissuade you.
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Old 05-25-14, 06:08 PM   #24
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Allannde, as I already mentioned, the chance of a warranty issue coming up is remote. If it does, you're better off going to the local dealer than making a 10+ hour trek. Chances are you'll be fine. I've done it myself when a check engine light went on in the 330 driving to work. I absolutely detest the local dealer because of an experience I had when I looked at the RX there. Sound familiar? But it's the closest one. The SA gave me a funny look when he pulled up my information, no doubt because he saw where I bought it. Bottom line, the RX was fixed in about an hour. It was an O2 sensor, covered under warranty. While I wasn't happy about going there, the repair was done without any issues. I didn't have to go back either. So it can happen, just not often if at all. Try not to let a possible warranty issue dissuade you.
Anita What you and coroado have said has made me think. Your strong connection to the RXh is to be envied and is a complement to the Toyota/Lexus engineers who made it possible. I know a lot about that engineering from my years with the Prius and looked forward to experiencing that with luxury and the sense that I was a valued customer which I imagined would come with a Lexus. Well, the valued customer part was a bust, and there are other cars which provide luxury. And I still have the Plug in Prius which is a much better expression of Hybrid Synergy Drive.

I had a Volvo which I purchased new in 1999 and was like a new car every single year of those fifteen years. In the process, I developed a personal and trusting relationship with the technician who actually did the work on the car and the rest of the staff at that dealership actually did treat me like a valued customer, all of the time. The Volvo DOES feel like a luxury car and gets acceptable mpg. However, it s not a hybrid, not yet.

Yesterday was my 80th Birthday and I am not feeling as flexible as I once did. In addition, I value both trust and a sense that I am a valued customer. It is not certain that my next car will be a Lexus.

That said, I have only high regard for your advice and counsel. It is very much appreciated.

Regards

Allan
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Old 05-25-14, 06:37 PM   #25
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^^^ Good luck Allan. Most important is your health and well-being. Lots of good cars nowadays to choose from. Congratulations on your 80th birthday.
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Old 05-26-14, 06:29 AM   #26
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Wishing you the best Allan in your decision making. I'm sorry that your local dealer and lack of other Lexus sources caused so much angst in your deliberations. Even if you go with something else, check in with us and let us know your status please.
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Old 05-26-14, 07:17 AM   #27
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Allan, your enthusiasm is contagious

Thank you for sharing your experience. I know it wasn't positive or probably easy to do. Hopefully you've seen that it's still possible to be a 450h owner. One dealer shouldn't ruin it for you. Most will value your business and treat you with the respect you deserve. That's something I can relate to. What you decide to do at this point is totally up to you. We can only hope you find your 450h. I wish you the best of luck.

And Happy Birthday
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Old 05-26-14, 10:33 AM   #28
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Wishing you the best Allan in your decision making. I'm sorry that your local dealer and lack of other Lexus sources caused so much angst in your deliberations. Even if you go with something else, check in with us and let us know your status please.
I will keep in touch, especially if it seems like I have something to contribute.

How can I go wrong with all of your good wishes and support!

Thank you

Allan
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Old 05-27-14, 07:53 AM   #29
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You might be right that this is related to hand controls. Toyota had recently settled a billion dollar frivolous lawsuit related to electronic throttle control sensors. Last thing they would want at this stage is to introduce any variables to controlling throttle or brake operations.

Unless, the above were aftermarket, in which case, Toyota would not be liable.
Frivolous?? Tell that to my wife who almost drove into the side of a building when her RX decided to accelerate unexpectedly! In her case, the brakes still worked, and she was able to stop the car. As one that actually experienced the issue, I can assure you that UA did indeed exist! The fact that .......

Oh, never mind. Sometimes facts and actual experience simply get in the way of what people choose to believe. It just really gets to me when people represent opinions as fact, especially when they are clearly clueless based on my PERSONAL, actual, factual experience. Especially when their "facts" try to make those that have experienced the issue look like ignorant, money grubbing scam artists and liars. I took our car to Lexus, and got the standard "we can find nothing wrong", and "the cars is working as designed" responses. I gave them the car back, and bought an RXh as I believe the issue is unique to individual cars. But it was the dealer that supported us, not Lexus, and it COST me money to get out of our lease early. We never got, wanted, expected, or asked for any payoff from Lexus. Not a money issue, it is strictly a safetyissue. After 2 years of satisfied ownership, I simply could no longer trust the car and wanted a different one.

The truth is, we love out Lexus vehicles, and believe the benefits we experience outweigh the one in a million chance that something might happen AGAIN.
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Old 05-27-14, 11:43 AM   #30
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Frivolous?? .
Don't take it too personally. In this age of cameras you can literally spend most of your day on YouTube watching people drive their cars of all makes and models into buildings after mixing up the gas and brake pedal. And for everyone caught on camera, there are 50 that weren't. When there is so much evidence of people doing it to themselves, it's hard to not be suspicious of the genuine minority of actual driver faultless incidents.

Nearly did myself in 30 years ago, just pulling up the driveway into the garage. Go to slow down and wrong pedal, suddenly full throttle entering the garage and momentarily panicked. Managed to get proper on the brakes and slid to a stop inches from the back of the garage.
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