Why not a GS450H?
09-30-12, 05:06 PM
#16
natnut -
Your 0-260 video is for the previous GS 450h which was much faster.
The 2013 GS 450h has fallen short of the GS 350 in 0-60 in all professional reviews I have read.
I have driven both and the seat of the pants feeling is indiscernible, though the sound generator in the GS 350 gives the impression it's a bit quicker.
Your 0-260 video is for the previous GS 450h which was much faster.
The 2013 GS 450h has fallen short of the GS 350 in 0-60 in all professional reviews I have read.
I have driven both and the seat of the pants feeling is indiscernible, though the sound generator in the GS 350 gives the impression it's a bit quicker.
10-01-12, 10:03 AM
#17
Rookie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[/IMG]I didn't know the maintenance would be less in a hybrid. that's a definitely plus for me. between being more quiet and more low end torque where most of us drive and feel, i guess you're right that it's a no brainer if the 10k difference can be captured during the life of the car.
10-01-12, 10:25 AM
#18
Its probably a bit faster but i love gasoline engine and cant stand looking at the rev tach staying at redline and watching the speed climb with no shifting its like driving a moped in vietnam
10-01-12, 11:11 AM
#20
natnut -
Your 0-260 video is for the previous GS 450h which was much faster.
The 2013 GS 450h has fallen short of the GS 350 in 0-60 in all professional reviews I have read.
I have driven both and the seat of the pants feeling is indiscernible, though the sound generator in the GS 350 gives the impression it's a bit quicker.
Your 0-260 video is for the previous GS 450h which was much faster.
The 2013 GS 450h has fallen short of the GS 350 in 0-60 in all professional reviews I have read.
I have driven both and the seat of the pants feeling is indiscernible, though the sound generator in the GS 350 gives the impression it's a bit quicker.
AS far as maintenance, the brakes, the engine, suspension, are the same. Transmission is the only mechanical difference. Your brakes will wear faster since its stopping much more weight.
10-01-12, 11:23 AM
#21
Former Sponsor
If Lexus debuted the GS 450h the same time as the GS 350 I probably could have convinced the boss to get one. Alas we wanted to be among the first with the 4GS so the 450h wasn't an option.
10-01-12, 02:47 PM
#22
Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Got a 350 Luxury AWD. Only thing that kept me from going Hybrid is lack of AWD on that model. Otherwise, I would have. Not a huge AWD drive but live in colder climates so necessary.
10-01-12, 08:43 PM
#23
It loses its value pretty well here in the US. People use the hi cost of part replacement and mileage as an excuse to diminish the value of the car.
AS far as maintenance, the brakes, the engine, suspension, are the same. Transmission is the only mechanical difference. Your brakes will wear faster since its stopping much more weight.
AS far as maintenance, the brakes, the engine, suspension, are the same. Transmission is the only mechanical difference. Your brakes will wear faster since its stopping much more weight.
what hi cost part replacement?
Brakes are not the same, engine is not the same, most of the powertain is not the same.
In fact, GS450h uses electric motors to stop most of the time, thus prolonging the life of brakes exponentially as they are not used often anymore (only during emergency braking or coming to full stop).
Engine is also often turned off, prolonging its life... all of the parts are electric (water pump, a/c, etc), and higher quality/longer life.
You need to check on hybrid boards how well their cars hold up over 200,000/300,000 miles and how little maintainance is needed.
10-02-12, 10:50 AM
#24
Lexus Champion
To the OP:
It depends on you:
With the hybrid, you get more low-end torque (where it kicks in earlier due to the advantage of electric batteries).
However, there are some penalties and one penalty is that you lose a bit of rear cargo space (since the batteries are stored there).
For the current 4GS, AWD is not available atm for the GS450h so if you're living in areas with lots of ice and snow, a GS350 AWD would be more appropriate for you. F-sport is not available for GS450h buyers in North America.
If you value silence, especially 25 mph/40 kmh village drives, then perhaps the GS450h may be more appropriate for you.
In the end: It's all up to you.
P.S.
In my case though (for the 4GS), between the 350 and the 450h, I'd choose the GS350...........for many reasons but one being that I like to hear the engine ignition sequence when starting any automobile. In a hybrid, it's all silent at start-up because engine only kicks in past 40 kmh/25 mph
Two cents
It depends on you:
With the hybrid, you get more low-end torque (where it kicks in earlier due to the advantage of electric batteries).
However, there are some penalties and one penalty is that you lose a bit of rear cargo space (since the batteries are stored there).
For the current 4GS, AWD is not available atm for the GS450h so if you're living in areas with lots of ice and snow, a GS350 AWD would be more appropriate for you. F-sport is not available for GS450h buyers in North America.
If you value silence, especially 25 mph/40 kmh village drives, then perhaps the GS450h may be more appropriate for you.
In the end: It's all up to you.
P.S.
In my case though (for the 4GS), between the 350 and the 450h, I'd choose the GS350...........for many reasons but one being that I like to hear the engine ignition sequence when starting any automobile. In a hybrid, it's all silent at start-up because engine only kicks in past 40 kmh/25 mph
Two cents
10-02-12, 11:19 AM
#25
Rookie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks for all the replies.
after hearing varying opinions i'm leaning towards the 450H next year. I don't mind spending the extra 10k as long as it buys me something i want. More quiet, more low end torque, better gas mileage, the coolness factor are all nice things to have, possibly lower maintenance although there has been conflicting reports in regard to that on this thread. I don't care about hearing the engine noise and not so much the trunk space. it's nice to have when i goto the airporto need to haul two golf bags but those instances are few and far in between. I can always use the RX350 for that. Thanks. My time frame is sometime next year. I was waiting for some new developments, mid year face lift, options etc... i know we will always wait for the next best thing. my G35 is maintenance free, I'm just a bit greedy.
after hearing varying opinions i'm leaning towards the 450H next year. I don't mind spending the extra 10k as long as it buys me something i want. More quiet, more low end torque, better gas mileage, the coolness factor are all nice things to have, possibly lower maintenance although there has been conflicting reports in regard to that on this thread. I don't care about hearing the engine noise and not so much the trunk space. it's nice to have when i goto the airporto need to haul two golf bags but those instances are few and far in between. I can always use the RX350 for that. Thanks. My time frame is sometime next year. I was waiting for some new developments, mid year face lift, options etc... i know we will always wait for the next best thing. my G35 is maintenance free, I'm just a bit greedy.
10-02-12, 03:01 PM
#26
thanks for all the replies.
after hearing varying opinions i'm leaning towards the 450H next year. I don't mind spending the extra 10k as long as it buys me something i want. More quiet, more low end torque, better gas mileage, the coolness factor are all nice things to have, possibly lower maintenance although there has been conflicting reports in regard to that on this thread. I don't care about hearing the engine noise and not so much the trunk space. it's nice to have when i goto the airporto need to haul two golf bags but those instances are few and far in between. I can always use the RX350 for that. Thanks. My time frame is sometime next year. I was waiting for some new developments, mid year face lift, options etc... i know we will always wait for the next best thing. my G35 is maintenance free, I'm just a bit greedy.
after hearing varying opinions i'm leaning towards the 450H next year. I don't mind spending the extra 10k as long as it buys me something i want. More quiet, more low end torque, better gas mileage, the coolness factor are all nice things to have, possibly lower maintenance although there has been conflicting reports in regard to that on this thread. I don't care about hearing the engine noise and not so much the trunk space. it's nice to have when i goto the airporto need to haul two golf bags but those instances are few and far in between. I can always use the RX350 for that. Thanks. My time frame is sometime next year. I was waiting for some new developments, mid year face lift, options etc... i know we will always wait for the next best thing. my G35 is maintenance free, I'm just a bit greedy.
350 is a good engine too.. just not as cool as hybrid.
10-02-12, 07:03 PM
#27
+1 for the lower maintenance on the brakes comment above. While a lot of the "maintenance" questions are debatable (engine is used less but it starts/stops a lot more which can cause wear, battery, CVT vs Auto, etc)... I think the brakes maintenance answer is a relatively definitive "There is less brake maintenance on a hybrid" because of the regenerative braking and less usage of the discs/calipers in general.
For me the deal breaker was I don't drive much (10-15K a year... so like 6-9000 miles a year), the trunk is smaller (one kid and another on the way, need room for strollers and their stuff), and our other car (EX35) is tiny for storage. On top of that, I have the F-Sport, and as all the NA folk know, there is no F-Sport GS450h option here.
On a related note, was driving somewhat aggressively today (no family in the car) and I wished I had a V8 on the highway. This is a big deal coming from me, someone who has lived with smaller engines his whole life. It'll pass, but it would have been nice to have some low end power when overtaking on the highway.
For me the deal breaker was I don't drive much (10-15K a year... so like 6-9000 miles a year), the trunk is smaller (one kid and another on the way, need room for strollers and their stuff), and our other car (EX35) is tiny for storage. On top of that, I have the F-Sport, and as all the NA folk know, there is no F-Sport GS450h option here.
On a related note, was driving somewhat aggressively today (no family in the car) and I wished I had a V8 on the highway. This is a big deal coming from me, someone who has lived with smaller engines his whole life
. It'll pass, but it would have been nice to have some low end power when overtaking on the highway.
10-03-12, 10:19 AM
#29
Traction Battery is anywhere from $3-4K just for the battery, labor for install at Lexus is another $2-5K. Inverter is almost $2-3k. Dealership purchasers are using those numbers to lower the trade in price and purchase price at auctions.
The engine is on the new 4th gen is an Atkinson cycle, so correct, it is not the same in respect to the 3rd gen or the 4th gen GS350. The engine in the 3rd GS is the same as the engine in a IS350 and GS350. Minus computer changes and injectors.
You think the Aisin transmission (electric motors) is/are what is slowing the car down to a stop?
"In fact"... it does not. When the brakes are depressed a sensor tells the charging motor to use the rotation of the EM to charge the battery. Since it is not being used to make forward momentum power at that moment. The brakes slow the car down. The EM just uses the energy (normally wasted) to make power to the battery. Now there is a slowing effect from the rotational mass being used only to charge, but nothing in the way of slowing the car down noticeably.
Not sure on the 4th gen but the brakes on my 3GS are EXACTLY THE SAME as a GS350 and 460. But because the car has extra battery weight, inverter weight, and a significantly heavier transmission. The pads wear out faster than they would on a normal GS350/460 at least on my 450h
Starting and stopping of a reciprocating engine does wear it down some. But again, I wasn't referring to those parts as being high cost. Anyone who ACTUALLY OWNS a 450h knows what the high dollar parts are.
No... you need to check on how the 450h actually works. Your posting about the hybrid drive being the mechanism that stops the car proves you have no clue.
I own one.
Brakes are not the same, engine is not the same, most of the powertain is not the same.
In fact, GS450h uses electric motors to stop most of the time, thus prolonging the life of brakes exponentially as they are not used often anymore (only during emergency braking or coming to full stop).
In fact, GS450h uses electric motors to stop most of the time, thus prolonging the life of brakes exponentially as they are not used often anymore (only during emergency braking or coming to full stop).
You think the Aisin transmission (electric motors) is/are what is slowing the car down to a stop?
"In fact"... it does not. When the brakes are depressed a sensor tells the charging motor to use the rotation of the EM to charge the battery. Since it is not being used to make forward momentum power at that moment. The brakes slow the car down. The EM just uses the energy (normally wasted) to make power to the battery. Now there is a slowing effect from the rotational mass being used only to charge, but nothing in the way of slowing the car down noticeably.
Not sure on the 4th gen but the brakes on my 3GS are EXACTLY THE SAME as a GS350 and 460. But because the car has extra battery weight, inverter weight, and a significantly heavier transmission. The pads wear out faster than they would on a normal GS350/460 at least on my 450h
I own one.
Last edited by neurocity; 10-03-12 at 10:35 AM.
10-04-12, 10:47 AM
#30
Lead Lap
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ontario
Posts: 727
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There must be something different about your 450h. Regenerative braking usually does most of the slowing down of the hybrid vehicle at higher speed. The actual normal friction based braking are programmed to take over when the vehicle is slow enough that regen braking is no longer effective. (That is why some earlier hybrids had grabby brakes feel during the transition). Unless the posts in hybrid forums are lies, hybrid taxis are said to go 100K miles/km with minimal brake wears.
I have been driving an 2010 RXh for a year now, and I have seen no brake dust whatsoever on the wheels. Now compare that to to my previous IS350 which blackened the front wheels a few weeks after cleaning. To me, that indicated very little wear of the brakes.
All of the expensive hybrid components are under Lexus warranty for 8 years/100000 miles, so I think it's should be more than enough for most car buyers who don't keep cars more than 4 years or 80K miles.
I have been driving an 2010 RXh for a year now, and I have seen no brake dust whatsoever on the wheels. Now compare that to to my previous IS350 which blackened the front wheels a few weeks after cleaning. To me, that indicated very little wear of the brakes.
All of the expensive hybrid components are under Lexus warranty for 8 years/100000 miles, so I think it's should be more than enough for most car buyers who don't keep cars more than 4 years or 80K miles.
Traction Battery is anywhere from $3-4K just for the battery, labor for install at Lexus is another $2-5K. Inverter is almost $2-3k. Dealership purchasers are using those numbers to lower the trade in price and purchase price at auctions.
The engine is on the new 4th gen is an Atkinson cycle, so correct, it is not the same in respect to the 3rd gen or the 4th gen GS350. The engine in the 3rd GS is the same as the engine in a IS350 and GS350. Minus computer changes and injectors.
You think the Aisin transmission (electric motors) is/are what is slowing the car down to a stop?
"In fact"... it does not. When the brakes are depressed a sensor tells the charging motor to use the rotation of the EM to charge the battery. Since it is not being used to make forward momentum power at that moment. The brakes slow the car down. The EM just uses the energy (normally wasted) to make power to the battery. Now there is a slowing effect from the rotational mass being used only to charge, but nothing in the way of slowing the car down noticeably.
Not sure on the 4th gen but the brakes on my 3GS are EXACTLY THE SAME as a GS350 and 460. But because the car has extra battery weight, inverter weight, and a significantly heavier transmission. The pads wear out faster than they would on a normal GS350/460 at least on my 450h
Starting and stopping of a reciprocating engine does wear it down some. But again, I wasn't referring to those parts as being high cost. Anyone who ACTUALLY OWNS a 450h knows what the high dollar parts are.
No... you need to check on how the 450h actually works. Your posting about the hybrid drive being the mechanism that stops the car proves you have no clue.
I own one.
The engine is on the new 4th gen is an Atkinson cycle, so correct, it is not the same in respect to the 3rd gen or the 4th gen GS350. The engine in the 3rd GS is the same as the engine in a IS350 and GS350. Minus computer changes and injectors.
You think the Aisin transmission (electric motors) is/are what is slowing the car down to a stop?
"In fact"... it does not. When the brakes are depressed a sensor tells the charging motor to use the rotation of the EM to charge the battery. Since it is not being used to make forward momentum power at that moment. The brakes slow the car down. The EM just uses the energy (normally wasted) to make power to the battery. Now there is a slowing effect from the rotational mass being used only to charge, but nothing in the way of slowing the car down noticeably.
Not sure on the 4th gen but the brakes on my 3GS are EXACTLY THE SAME as a GS350 and 460. But because the car has extra battery weight, inverter weight, and a significantly heavier transmission. The pads wear out faster than they would on a normal GS350/460 at least on my 450h
Starting and stopping of a reciprocating engine does wear it down some. But again, I wasn't referring to those parts as being high cost. Anyone who ACTUALLY OWNS a 450h knows what the high dollar parts are.
No... you need to check on how the 450h actually works. Your posting about the hybrid drive being the mechanism that stops the car proves you have no clue.
I own one.