They really are fair-weather friends!
03-26-12, 05:45 PM
#1
Driver
Thread Starter
They really are fair-weather friends!
This is not going to be a revelation to experienced hybrid operators, but it should be useful to someone who has never had one and is thinking about those juicy mpg numbers hybrids seem to get.
We bought our first hybrid, a 2008 RX400h with 18,000 miles in December 2011. We live in MI.
It's my wife's car and she has a VERY short all in-town commute. About 2.5 miles. We had a 2004 RX330 before and she was getting about 16-18 mpg in-town with it. (It was destroyed by a woman who was driving HUA and rear-ended the RX330. Jerk.)
Anyway, from December until a week ago we were were having a mild, but still cool-cold winter with T's in the 20's and 30's. My wife got a routine 18 mpg with the RX400h in her short commute. I was VERY disappointed...nowhere near the 26 mpg on the EPA sticker, but actually, about what CR got. My wife was giving me the "And exactly why did you want a hybrid?" look.
Then, all of a sudden, it got very warm for a week or two. I mean with one day the T getting into the upper 80's and a lot of days in the lower 80's. The mileage on the RX400h immediately shot up to over 25 mpg and up to 29 mpg on short stretches. Plus whereas when it was cold it NEVER ran very long on electric power, now it would run on electric for quite a while (many minutes) at speeds up to 40 mph. This was a night/day change with the commute route being EXACTLY the same.
Now all cars get better mileage in warm weather than in cold, but based on our experience with the RX400h (and a friend's similar experience with a Fusion hybrid) you take a MUCH bigger hit with a hybrid than with a straight gas car in cold weather. My 1992 LS400 does 12-14 mpg in winter vs 16 mpg in summer in city driving. Our RX330 did about 16 mpg in winter vs. about 18 mpg in warm weather. The RX400h does 18 mpg vs. almost 26 mpg cold weather vs. warm. BIG difference.
This may be why when CR tested an RX400h they only reported about 18 mpg city.
We bought our first hybrid, a 2008 RX400h with 18,000 miles in December 2011. We live in MI.
It's my wife's car and she has a VERY short all in-town commute. About 2.5 miles. We had a 2004 RX330 before and she was getting about 16-18 mpg in-town with it. (It was destroyed by a woman who was driving HUA and rear-ended the RX330. Jerk.)
Anyway, from December until a week ago we were were having a mild, but still cool-cold winter with T's in the 20's and 30's. My wife got a routine 18 mpg with the RX400h in her short commute. I was VERY disappointed...nowhere near the 26 mpg on the EPA sticker, but actually, about what CR got. My wife was giving me the "And exactly why did you want a hybrid?" look.
Then, all of a sudden, it got very warm for a week or two. I mean with one day the T getting into the upper 80's and a lot of days in the lower 80's. The mileage on the RX400h immediately shot up to over 25 mpg and up to 29 mpg on short stretches. Plus whereas when it was cold it NEVER ran very long on electric power, now it would run on electric for quite a while (many minutes) at speeds up to 40 mph. This was a night/day change with the commute route being EXACTLY the same.
Now all cars get better mileage in warm weather than in cold, but based on our experience with the RX400h (and a friend's similar experience with a Fusion hybrid) you take a MUCH bigger hit with a hybrid than with a straight gas car in cold weather. My 1992 LS400 does 12-14 mpg in winter vs 16 mpg in summer in city driving. Our RX330 did about 16 mpg in winter vs. about 18 mpg in warm weather. The RX400h does 18 mpg vs. almost 26 mpg cold weather vs. warm. BIG difference.
This may be why when CR tested an RX400h they only reported about 18 mpg city.
Last edited by nopcbs; 04-05-12 at 06:47 PM. Reason: Because.
03-26-12, 08:00 PM
#3
Why I love diesels. Have always been hoping that Toyota/Lexus would bring some to the states. Sure, the fuel is more expensive. Still, the additional cost over a gas engine is less than a hybrid and the technology is much simpler. And when it comes to MPG, you are more likely to get what is on the sticker than not and sometimes on the highway you will get much more.
I understand the reason and need for hybrids and alternative fuel vehicles. Living in FL we have access to electricity created mainly from nuclear and natural gas compared to other areas of the country using coal. Homeowners with plug-in hybrids can also take advantage of solar for recharging. Even the Honda Civic CNG makes sense for individuals like myself who live in areas supported with natural gas hookups at the house allowing me to refuel at home if desired. These technologies have their limitations such as range, however, for the majority of my travels I would rarely be out of range.
Still, I think the whole hybrid thing has been overhyped. For now, you buy a hybrid because you can and not because it makes financial sense.
I understand the reason and need for hybrids and alternative fuel vehicles. Living in FL we have access to electricity created mainly from nuclear and natural gas compared to other areas of the country using coal. Homeowners with plug-in hybrids can also take advantage of solar for recharging. Even the Honda Civic CNG makes sense for individuals like myself who live in areas supported with natural gas hookups at the house allowing me to refuel at home if desired. These technologies have their limitations such as range, however, for the majority of my travels I would rarely be out of range.
Still, I think the whole hybrid thing has been overhyped. For now, you buy a hybrid because you can and not because it makes financial sense.
03-26-12, 08:18 PM
#5
When warm weather arrives and stays, see what mileage you're getting, then disconnect the battery, and see what your mileage is. Then do the ISC reset. Check your mileage again. I won't say I told you so.
03-30-12, 05:49 PM
#6
Driver
Thread Starter
Wow
You are running on battery a lot! I've seen a little over 30 mpg for a very sort distances (like a mile), but getting 35 mpg over a half hour is astonishing.
That is WAY above either EPA estimate.
This isn't a down-hill run, is it?
- nopcbs
That is WAY above either EPA estimate.
This isn't a down-hill run, is it?
- nopcbs
Last edited by nopcbs; 04-05-12 at 06:49 PM. Reason: Because.
03-30-12, 06:02 PM
#7
Driver
Thread Starter
Diesels are great, but...
I have a 2006 MB E320 CDI. I love the thing being such a torque monster and the 38 mpg highway, but it is not a great city mileage machine and that is especially true in cool weather. My experience telle me that diesels are about as cold blooded as hybrids and do best once warmed up. The pity is that MB refuses to put block warmers in their US diesels, so you get to do the warmup by driving it...and getting crappy mileage. They do put them in in Canada.
Diesels are fantasic at highway speeds, but mileage drops off greatly in acceleration. This means that the ideal mileage machine would be a diesel hybrid. It would be very pricey, but both city and highway numbers would be through the roof. Being done, too, by Peugeot with their 60 mpg 3008 Hybrid4, much to the German's shame. Nice, but very, very pricey. VW was to do a diesel hybrid Golf, but backed out as they thought it too expensive to sell. A pity.
- nopcbs
Diesels are fantasic at highway speeds, but mileage drops off greatly in acceleration. This means that the ideal mileage machine would be a diesel hybrid. It would be very pricey, but both city and highway numbers would be through the roof. Being done, too, by Peugeot with their 60 mpg 3008 Hybrid4, much to the German's shame. Nice, but very, very pricey. VW was to do a diesel hybrid Golf, but backed out as they thought it too expensive to sell. A pity.
- nopcbs
Why I love diesels. Have always been hoping that Toyota/Lexus would bring some to the states. Sure, the fuel is more expensive. Still, the additional cost over a gas engine is less than a hybrid and the technology is much simpler. And when it comes to MPG, you are more likely to get what is on the sticker than not and sometimes on the highway you will get much more.
I understand the reason and need for hybrids and alternative fuel vehicles. Living in FL we have access to electricity created mainly from nuclear and natural gas compared to other areas of the country using coal. Homeowners with plug-in hybrids can also take advantage of solar for recharging. Even the Honda Civic CNG makes sense for individuals like myself who live in areas supported with natural gas hookups at the house allowing me to refuel at home if desired. These technologies have their limitations such as range, however, for the majority of my travels I would rarely be out of range.
Still, I think the whole hybrid thing has been overhyped. For now, you buy a hybrid because you can and not because it makes financial sense.
I understand the reason and need for hybrids and alternative fuel vehicles. Living in FL we have access to electricity created mainly from nuclear and natural gas compared to other areas of the country using coal. Homeowners with plug-in hybrids can also take advantage of solar for recharging. Even the Honda Civic CNG makes sense for individuals like myself who live in areas supported with natural gas hookups at the house allowing me to refuel at home if desired. These technologies have their limitations such as range, however, for the majority of my travels I would rarely be out of range.
Still, I think the whole hybrid thing has been overhyped. For now, you buy a hybrid because you can and not because it makes financial sense.
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03-31-12, 07:32 AM
#9
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Does your trip computer mileage closely match what you would calculate manually when you fill the car up? I've noticed that with my car, the trip computer's mileage is a bit optimistic (28.2 mpg vs. 24.8 calculated). I've heard that many cars have overly optimistic trip computers, but my previous cars were pretty much spot on.
Very impressive mileage, nonetheless.
Thanks,
Jeff
08 RX400h
Very impressive mileage, nonetheless.
Thanks,
Jeff
08 RX400h
03-31-12, 07:02 PM
#11
I have a 2006 MB E320 CDI. I love the thing being such a torque monster and the 38 mpg highway, but it is not a great city mileage machine and that is especially true in cool weather. My experience telle me that diesels are about as cold blooded as hybrids and do best once warmed up. The pity is that MB refuses to put block warmers in their US diesels, so you get to do the warmup by driving it...and getting crappy mileage. They do put them in in Canada.
Diesels are fantasic at highway speeds, but mileage drops off greatly in acceleration. This means that the ideal mileage machine would be a diesel hybrid. It would be very pricey, but both city and highway numbers would be through the roof. Being done, too, by Peugeot with their 60 mpg 3008 Hybrid4, much to the German's shame. Nice, but very, very pricey. VW was to do a diesel hybrid Golf, but backed out as they thought it too expensive to sell. A pity.
- nopcbs
Diesels are fantasic at highway speeds, but mileage drops off greatly in acceleration. This means that the ideal mileage machine would be a diesel hybrid. It would be very pricey, but both city and highway numbers would be through the roof. Being done, too, by Peugeot with their 60 mpg 3008 Hybrid4, much to the German's shame. Nice, but very, very pricey. VW was to do a diesel hybrid Golf, but backed out as they thought it too expensive to sell. A pity.
- nopcbs
As for the Lexus, I bought my wife a used 2007 400h with 85K miles on it. The battery, tires, and windshield were replaced at the Jeep dealership before I bought it. We'd average 25mpg driving 50/50 city/fwy over 3 tanks. After resetting the ISC, we are averaging 27mpg on the last two tanks.
04-01-12, 10:20 AM
#12
As for the Lexus, I bought my wife a used 2007 400h with 85K miles on it. The battery, tires, and windshield were replaced at the Jeep dealership before I bought it. We'd average 25mpg driving 50/50 city/fwy over 3 tanks. After resetting the ISC, we are averaging 27mpg on the last two tanks.
Nice. Just pointing this out for the ISC reset doubters.
04-05-12, 06:44 PM
#13
Driver
Thread Starter
It got cooler and down the mpg went
Well, it turned cool again (40's and 50's) and the mileage on our RX400h dropped accordingly. Instead of the 25.5 mpg my wife was getting, when we had that spell of 80's, around town, it went down to 22 mpg.
The thing is a very eleaborate thermometer!
Hey, here's a coming threat for Lexus. MB is upgrading their GLK cross-over to include a 2.1 L 190 hp 369 lb-ft diesel that a MB engineer says will get high 30's on the highway and mid-20's city.
369 lb-ft out of a 2.1 L diesel! Holy cow. That's what the 3.2 L CDI turbo-diesel in our 2006 E-Class produces. Amazing.
Lexus...we need diesels!
- nopcbs
The thing is a very eleaborate thermometer!
Hey, here's a coming threat for Lexus. MB is upgrading their GLK cross-over to include a 2.1 L 190 hp 369 lb-ft diesel that a MB engineer says will get high 30's on the highway and mid-20's city.
369 lb-ft out of a 2.1 L diesel! Holy cow. That's what the 3.2 L CDI turbo-diesel in our 2006 E-Class produces. Amazing.
Lexus...we need diesels!
- nopcbs
This is not going to be a revelation to experienced hybrid operators, but it should be useful to someone who has never had one and is thinking about those juicy mpg numbers hybrids seem to get.
We bought our first hybrid, a 2008 RX400h with 18,000 miles in December 2011. We live in MI.
It's my wife's car and she has a VERY short all in-town commute. About 2.5 miles. We had a 2004 RX330 before and she was getting about 16-18 mpg in-town with it. (It was destroyed by a woman who was driving HUA and rear-ended the RX330. Jerk.)
Anyway, from December until a week ago we were were having a mild, but still cool-cold winter with T's in the 20's and 30's. My wife got a routine 18 mpg with the RX400h in her short commute. I was VERY disappointed...nowhere near the 26 mpg on the EPA sticker, but actually, about what CR got. My wife was giving me the "And exactly why did you want a hybrid?" look.
Then, all of a sudden, it got very warm for a week or two. I mean with one day the T getting into the upper 80's and a lot of days in the lower 80's. The mileage on the RX400h immediately shot up to over 25 mpg and up to 29 mpg on short stretches. Plus whereas when it was coold it NEVER ran very long on electric power, now it would run on electric for quite a while (many minutes) at speeds up to 40 mph. This was a night/day change with the commute route being EXACTLY the same.
Now all cars get better mileage in warm weather than in cold, but based on our experience with the RX400h (and a friend's similar experience with a Fusion hybrid) you take a MUCH bigger hit with a hybrid than with a straight gas car in cold weather. My 1992 LS400 does 12-14 mpg in winter vs 16 mpg in summer in city driving. Our RX330 did about 16 mpg in winter vs. about 18 mpg in warm weather. The RX400h does 18 mpg vs. almost 26 mpg cold weather vs. warm. BIG difference.
This may be why when CR tested an RX400h they only reported about 18 mpg city.
We bought our first hybrid, a 2008 RX400h with 18,000 miles in December 2011. We live in MI.
It's my wife's car and she has a VERY short all in-town commute. About 2.5 miles. We had a 2004 RX330 before and she was getting about 16-18 mpg in-town with it. (It was destroyed by a woman who was driving HUA and rear-ended the RX330. Jerk.)
Anyway, from December until a week ago we were were having a mild, but still cool-cold winter with T's in the 20's and 30's. My wife got a routine 18 mpg with the RX400h in her short commute. I was VERY disappointed...nowhere near the 26 mpg on the EPA sticker, but actually, about what CR got. My wife was giving me the "And exactly why did you want a hybrid?" look.
Then, all of a sudden, it got very warm for a week or two. I mean with one day the T getting into the upper 80's and a lot of days in the lower 80's. The mileage on the RX400h immediately shot up to over 25 mpg and up to 29 mpg on short stretches. Plus whereas when it was coold it NEVER ran very long on electric power, now it would run on electric for quite a while (many minutes) at speeds up to 40 mph. This was a night/day change with the commute route being EXACTLY the same.
Now all cars get better mileage in warm weather than in cold, but based on our experience with the RX400h (and a friend's similar experience with a Fusion hybrid) you take a MUCH bigger hit with a hybrid than with a straight gas car in cold weather. My 1992 LS400 does 12-14 mpg in winter vs 16 mpg in summer in city driving. Our RX330 did about 16 mpg in winter vs. about 18 mpg in warm weather. The RX400h does 18 mpg vs. almost 26 mpg cold weather vs. warm. BIG difference.
This may be why when CR tested an RX400h they only reported about 18 mpg city.
Last edited by nopcbs; 04-05-12 at 06:53 PM. Reason: Because.
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