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Old 08-01-09, 05:21 AM   #16
kitlz
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91. And it seems to make enough of a difference, I'll stay with it. Price fluctuates so much anyway, it's just a matter of overcoming it mentally.

Thanks. 93 would be overkill. Who uses that stuff anyway

When I think about all the cars, pricey and not, that require premium and get about half the mileage of the 450h, now that hurts I didn't buy the 450h to quibble over an extra dollar or two at the pump. I bought it because I drive mostly on city roads at low speeds, making the hybrid ideal for me. My gas consumption should drop a bit. Less gas = less cost. I haven't looked at the maintenance schedule recently but I recall it costs less to maintain too. Bonus!
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Old 08-01-09, 05:52 AM   #17
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Thanks. 93 would be overkill. Who uses that stuff anyway

When I think about all the cars, pricey and not, that require premium and get about half the mileage of the 450h, now that hurts I didn't buy the 450h to quibble over an extra dollar or two at the pump. I bought it because I drive mostly on city roads at low speeds, making the hybrid ideal for me. My gas consumption should drop a bit. Less gas = less cost. I haven't looked at the maintenance schedule recently but I recall it costs less to maintain too. Bonus!
Everything you said above is true. I won't see a lower bill this month because we took a trip to FL in it but this next month I expect to. My tank average is pretty consistent at 10mpg higher than when I was doing the same driving in our 2003 RX300.

People talking about the difference between the 350 and 450h will be so long to pay for itself has to be looked at in a different light than that. The total cost of switching cars in same RX model from 03 to 2010 was enough that the small difference between the 350 and 450h smoothed that bump out a lot. Plus one of the features I would have wanted in the 350 if I went that route was expensive and hard to get but standard in the 450h, was VDIM. That reduces the difference even more. Then the additional value that is worth something is knowing that your car is absolutely start of the art and coveted by those pumping with you at the gas pump. And the resale figures of the 400h is already showing additional value down the line.

So, my rational is if you can afford the 350, then a little more for the 450 isn't that much of a jump. If it is too much, then the 350 might be too much of a stretch. I believe that when the battery manufacturing capacity improves enough to meet demand, the (h) models will outsell the same models in gas only. But that's just my opinion and we are all entitled to 'our own' aren't we ???
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Old 08-01-09, 06:38 AM   #18
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depending where you are--you do get different octanes available. Upper midwest has 87/89 and 93 for example.

AZ has 87/89 and either 91 or 92

I used to have a union 76 station near me that offered racing gasoline (why, I have no idea) with 107 octane
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Old 08-01-09, 09:20 AM   #19
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depending where you are--you do get different octanes available. Upper midwest has 87/89 and 93 for example.

AZ has 87/89 and either 91 or 92

I used to have a union 76 station near me that offered racing gasoline (why, I have no idea) with 107 octane
Your right on with that. In our area (SE), it's mostly 87/89, & 93 octain. So we either have to buy a rating lower than recommended or a pricier one that's higher.

We need some standardization across the country so folks can pump what they need. For a while there was some talk to standardize the complicated cocktails required in different states that would also drastically reduce the cost of gas. But instead of legislating things our country needs, our lawmakers insist on creating laws and conditions of various descriptions that are not what 'WE' need, but what they think they need to stay in office.

I'm vacillating now whether or not to push the button 'cause I know a fire storm of various political convictions might follow.

Oh well, I'm bored

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Old 08-01-09, 12:15 PM   #20
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Where I live, we have 87, 89 (10% ethanol), and 91. We had been using the premium 91 octane on our RX450H until the last fill-up. We are trying out the 89 octane with 10% ethanol to see if it makes much difference. I can tell you this much. On my LS460L, I have been filling up with the 89 octane (10% ethanol) for at least one and one half years now. I have tried both the 91 and the 89 and I observed very little difference in gas mileage and no difference in performance. So, my philosophy is, why pay 30 cents per gallon (yes that's the difference between the 89 octane with ethanol and the 91 octane with no ethanol) more for the premium when the 89 octane seems to be just as good.

It will be interesting to see if there is much difference with the two grades of gas on the RX450h.
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Old 08-01-09, 02:03 PM   #21
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I normally see a 20 cent difference between "regular" and "premium" (whether 91 or 93).

I wonder if I have 93 and 89--can I alternate fill ups and average out to 91? Does the gas all mix in anyway.

Jim, on the political firestorm- :-) -discussing here will do nothing more than get it off our chests. Politicians individually have their own multi-facited agenda.

But all we have to do to evaluate success of our leadership long term is:

a) look at financial condition of our country
b) look at the loss of esteem
c) the power or influence to lead

it should be like running a business-metrics of success and clean house if things not going well.

The controversies arise cause govt sticks its nose into too many places where there are too many opinions-none particularly wrong except "its not my idea".

But this all gets back to ethanol and even this cash for clunkers thing which is now up to 3 Billion in cost--who pays for that? and since our cars (generally) cost more than 45k we are not eligible. effectively what used to be rebates from GM and Chrysler are now rebates from the taxpayer. If this continues I would think Lexus would be shipping rx's with a certain content to be priced at 44,950. Tail wags the dog and everything becomes less efficient.

And the cash for clunkers merely accelerates sales into this quarter at the cost for sales later this year, much like the post 9/11 deals did.

So, ask this question--if the govt could not figure out the cash for clunkers thing, how the heck are they gonna run GM and Chrysler? Or based on social security mess and medicare and medicaid mess--how is national health care gonna work.
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Old 08-01-09, 06:36 PM   #22
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But all we have to do to evaluate success of our leadership long term is:

a) look at financial condition of our country
b) look at the loss of esteem
c) the power or influence to lead

it should be like running a business-metrics of success and clean house if things not going well.

The controversies arise cause govt sticks its nose into too many places where there are too many opinions-none particularly wrong except "its not my idea".

But this all gets back to ethanol and even this cash for clunkers thing which is now up to 3 Billion in cost--who pays for that? and since our cars (generally) cost more than 45k we are not eligible. effectively what used to be rebates from GM and Chrysler are now rebates from the taxpayer. If this continues I would think Lexus would be shipping rx's with a certain content to be priced at 44,950. Tail wags the dog and everything becomes less efficient.

And the cash for clunkers merely accelerates sales into this quarter at the cost for sales later this year, much like the post 9/11 deals did.

So, ask this question--if the govt could not figure out the cash for clunkers thing, how the heck are they gonna run GM and Chrysler? Or based on social security mess and medicare and medicaid mess--how is national health care gonna work.
Hal
You had mentioned in a previous post that you thought we had a lot in common. We certainly think the same way about the shape and condition of our country right now. I come from a Military family and I retired from the Navy. I've seen and heard a lot in life both here and abroad that have given me cause to wonder. But never has my heart and soul hurt so much as it does now when I keep hearing 'our President' apologize for our past and hasn't yet accepted responsibility for the present. At the end of his term he will still be blaming our present and future deficit on the past administration. Can you tell me why we haven't pursued more natural gas exploration to become totally independent. We have enough available now to provide all we can use in clean energy long past our lives and our childrens. If a conversion kit was made available to modify my 450h at a reasonable price I'd convert in a heartbeat and have a low pressure natural gas fill device on my garage wall to top off every night. You can lock in now at well below the equivalent of a dollar a gallon.

You placed the ramp for this podium, now help me off pls

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Old 08-01-09, 08:01 PM   #23
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Jimmy, ya got to have venues to blow the steam off.

One reason I am upset is we cannot get money on our RX purchases cause the limit is 45000, and thru the now 3 billion made available in the clunker program, taxpayers in general are footing the bill. My trade in is a clunker -a 99 explorer that is on its last legs. My ford dealer cannot fix the car since the part is not made anymore (yeah-10 year old explorer) and he does not want to try to fix it as he thinks it will stop working if he takes a crack at it (rusted out and broken motor mount) . In addition explorers could be cannibalized but under the clunker system they are wrecked in total--no canibalization. FUBAR

Do we all qualify as "rich" merely because we are buying a 45k car?

I think we are "smart" and finding a way to stretch our money by buying a hybrid made that should last a while (not to mention safety features even if the paint is soft). And on the 350, judging by the past experiences on the RX people have been very very happy.

So I will hold my nose since I have no way of changing the system other than voting the SOB's out of office.

But every once in a while ya have to **** and moan. Since this is a 450h Hybrid forum, I feel we can P&M specifically about buying smart and getting short changed. With our tax money.
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Old 08-01-09, 10:18 PM   #24
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here is an article about cash for clunkers from an investment blog based on an Edmunds article--I apologize for placing it in this tread but it does affect most of the RX lineup which is a rather popular line for Lexus. In any event, it appears that this is another govt waste of money except we can't get any of it--and I wonder how many rx sales were lost by folks switching to something less expensive. I have stuck with my decision but 4500 is a lot of money.

The article:

The "Cash for Clunkers" program has been a "great success", at least according to the government, and the auto industry. Within days of its kickoff, all $1 billion allocated to the program has been used up by Americans who have eagerly lined up to trade their clunkers for new vehicles.

Some refreshingly honest reporting has come from Edmunds.com, a car buying site that is telling the truth, in spite of benefiting from an increase in business and site traffic, due to the program. According to Edmunds, about 200,000 old low mileage cars would normally be traded in, every 3 months, in exchange for more efficient higher mileage cars, without this program.

The highest rebate is $4,500, and the lowest is $3,500. If everyone qualified for $4,500 per vehicle, about 222,000 vehicles would have just taken advantage of the government's money. At $3,500, 286,000 vehicles will have been sold.

I assume that, given all the raving, the government will eventually get around to assigning more money. It will take at least 2 or 3 months for the legislation to work its way through Congress. Meanwhile, if all buyers have qualified for the higher $4,500 rebate, the "cash for clunkers" program will mean a marginal increase in car sales of 22,000 this quarter. $1 billion divided by 22,000 means a net cost to the government of $45,354 per car.

If all buyers only qualify for the $3,500 rebate, it means a marginal increase in sales of about 86,000, or a net cost to the taxpayers of $11,628 per vehicle. In all likelihood, however, there will probably be a mix of vehicles qualifying for various rebates between $3,500 and $4,500. Based upon that assumption, Edmunds.com estimates that the average cost to the taxpayer will be about $20,000 per vehicle.

Even most of the marginally extra sales really represent people who were going to buy a new car eventually anyway. They are just buying a bit sooner than they expected. Old clunkers don't last forever, and they are almost all eventually replaced. The government is shifting tomorrow's demand to today, stealing from tomorrow to pay for today, but at great cost to the taxpayer.

The "cash for clunkers" program is yet another boondoogle - an expensive waste of precious taxpayer dollars. Government spending should be reined in, in light of the multi-trillion dollar unsustainable deficits that this nation now faces. However, if we must increase government spending, the money would be better spent on infrastructure and education improvements that might help bring jobs back to America, and encourage long term growth, rather than cosmetic improvements to the short term earnings of makers of high mileage automobiles, many of which are foreign companies.

This government is, unfortunately, a reflection of the current state of economic immaturity that prevails in America. The vast majority of people, including most people in Congress, do not understand the forces that drive the real economy, and see only the short term view. That is how they get manipulated into allowing the Federal Reserve to behave like a slush fund for big banks, passing programs like TARP into law, and enacting programs like "cash for clunkers" which all abuse the taxpayers.
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Old 08-02-09, 06:50 AM   #25
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Yes, it's a bummer I can't take advantage of the incentive programs. But fortunately for me, my dealer always gives me a great discount and a fair amount to trade in my old RX. That I can count on. Buying an American car, or any other car for that matter, is out of the question. I turned in a 1997 Ford Explorer Sport LEMON (yes, official - I went to court -lawyer, expert witness and all) and into my 99 RX almost 11 years ago. I have no regrets.

I'd rather buy a car from a company that believes in innovation and not the same ol', same ol'. Lexus continually gets better and better. Yes, American cars have gotten a bit better too but they had to have the government bail them out. Excuse my French but WTF? It doesn't look good based on all of your comments. Sorry, I avoid reading about all of these things in depth because it's so annoying, IMHO.

Lexus quality and reputation is unbelievable - hence the quote in my signature...

Nuff said!
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Old 08-02-09, 07:06 AM   #26
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Yes, it's a bummer I can't take advantage of the incentive programs. But fortunately for me, my dealer always gives me a great discount and a fair amount to trade in my old RX. That I can count on. Buying an American car, or any other car for that matter, is out of the question. I turned in a 1997 Ford Explorer Sport LEMON (yes, official - I went to court -lawyer, expert witness and all) and into my 99 RX almost 11 years ago. I have no regrets.

I'd rather buy a car from a company that believes in innovation and not the same ol', same ol'. Lexus continually gets better and better. Yes, American cars have gotten a bit better too but they had to have the government bail them out. Excuse my French but WTF? It doesn't look good based on all of your comments. Sorry, I avoid reading about all of these things in depth because it's so annoying, IMHO.

Lexus quality and reputation is unbelievable - hence the quote in my signature...

Nuff said!
Anita
Congratulations on your decision to 'see' and evaluate the market as to what your money is best spent on. You'll have it soon and be another proud parent of Lexus top notch technology. Too often customers fall prey to confusing or misleading add schemes. Like you, my Lexus experience started with the RX300 (03 model) that was bullet proof. It was time to trade up and I had no problem committing to another RX but the 450h this time. I'm very happy I did.

I thought my monthly gas bill might go down, but it's such a joy to drive we've started taking night time drives into the country like my parents used to do. What's up with that ??? I'm eating up my savings enjoying the new technology and efficiency.
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Old 08-02-09, 07:24 AM   #27
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I'll "fess" up:

in 99 when we bought out 99 Explorer, I first tried to direct my wife to the RX.


She did not like it then.


Now we should be getting our 450h within a week or two.

:-)


( I suppose if we had bought the 99 RX we would not be in so much of a hurry to get a new car)
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Old 08-02-09, 07:29 AM   #28
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Anita
Congratulations on your decision to 'see' and evaluate the market as to what your money is best spent on. You'll have it soon and be another proud parent of Lexus top notch technology. Too often customers fall prey to confusing or misleading add schemes. Like you, my Lexus experience started with the RX300 (03 model) that was bullet proof. It was time to trade up and I had no problem committing to another RX but the 450h this time. I'm very happy I did.

I thought my monthly gas bill might go down, but it's such a joy to drive we've started taking night time drives into the country like my parents used to do. What's up with that ??? I'm eating up my savings enjoying the new technology and efficiency.
Thank you Jim. I admit my experience with Ford was extreme. There are plenty of family and friends that drive non-Lexus vehicles and are happy. Great for them! What I can't accept is the car companies' complacency to do nothing to move forward technologywise. Lexus has always been ahead of the curve. The funny thing is I thought the first RX was butt ugly. But all it took was one drive and I was smitten. My current 04 RX is absolutely beautiful - love, love, love it. The new RX, well, I admit it was not love at first sight. But I have to think back on the original RX, again ahead of its time. The hybrid part makes it pretty exciting too. I'll tell you when I break 30MPG

Don't worry about the extra drives. Isn't that why we buy the cars we do The only difference is we can do it much more efficiently. I'll find soon. My baby arrives in the port next Friday.
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Old 08-02-09, 01:38 PM   #29
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The way the US rates gasoline is just different from the rest of the world. We still use octane ratings, (here in CA, its 87, 89, and 91), but other countries use the RON rating, in which 95 is equivilent to 91.

Anywhoo...The higher octane you are using, the better your gas mileage and power output should be.

and you do not buy a hybrid to save money, you buy it to be environmentally concious and to extend that lexus like ride even further through better sound isolation and quieter powertrain
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Old 08-02-09, 05:01 PM   #30
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you know you want it! how often can you say, "i have two 450h"
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