RX400H: Looknow's review
05-08-05, 02:25 PM
#1
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
RX400H: Looknow's review
We picked up the RX400H Friday evening around 8pm. Dealer experience was good. the trade was for a 05 RX330 with 4k miles. Dealer gave 38k back for the 330 while the 400h was sold at list.
The RX400h will take many a bit of time to get used to, but it is worth it. I posted my first impressions from a test drive at ... https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...&page=20&pp=15 please be sure to grab a look at that.
The RX400h uses the electric and gas motors independently or together to provide wheel power, charge to the batteries or additional traction (in the case of the rear electric motor). Until we began driving the 400 for a bit of time, it was difficult to tell the pattern the computer uses to invoke any one of these combinations of power sources. I still don't have it down completely.
When you start the 400, most times the Ready indicator will display on the dash below the power meter (this replaces the tachometer), but you hear no engine. The engine will kick on for two reasons. 1) if it is cold and the engine warmth will be required to heat the cabin, or 2) the battery is low so the engine is required to charge the batteries.
The 400's shift pattern is not P,R, N, D, 4,3,2,1 as do most 5-speed transmissions. The 400 has a continously variable transmission so basically you have P, R, N, D, B. The B is for utilizing braking from the engine instead of just the pads and the electric motor generator.
We placed the 400 in Drive and began to drive out of the parking lot. The monitors indicate (through a clearly illustrated display under the speedometer) that the battery is providing the energy to the wheels. As we depressed the throttle and the vehicle's speed rose above 15mph the gas engine started. The diagram shows this also, but we could feel the vehicle shake a bit as the engine first starts for providing force to the wheels. While driving over 30mph normally the gas engine does the bulk of the work unless we were at or under 5% throttle. When we really pushed things the electric motor will combine with the gas engine and thrusted us ahead at any speed. As we let go of the pedal, or braked the energy would reverse back to the battery. We also noticed on the power meter that the needle would go into the blue. The power meter has replaced the tachometer as found in most gas only vehicles. At first I thought I was miss it, but not so. It provides an extremely accurate indicatation of the energy used or reclaimed. At 0, there is a shaded area on the power meter. This normally indicates running on battery. Blue indicates reclaiming energy to charge the batteries and up to 100 or 200kw means the gas engine is running as well. If you hit 200kw, hold on, because you'll feel it at any speed.
Driving the 400 is fun. Try to keep your attention off the various meters and you really begin to enjoy it. Mostly because of its amazing power. You notice this on the higway. Driving 40, or 50, or 60, or 70, or even 80 and hit the throttle you'll pass nearly anything out there. It is incredible! From a stop light, the acceleration is not as agressive until you hit 15-20mph and at full throttle this drive system makes noise, but wooh how smooth it is!
The brakes are very good, and it's a bit redeeming knowing you're putting something back via charging the batteries.
The 400 is roughly 4-500 pounds heavier than the 330 and the bulk of this weight is centered under the seats due to the batteries. The end result is no loss and balance, but improved ride. We were told that Lexus tuned the suspension a bit stiffer to accomodate the batteries and overall the ride is significantly better than the 330, not nearly as bouncy (particulary in the back seat) yet still offers a soft smooth ride. Handling is also much better in my opinion. Much heavier feeling in the steering and less body roll through the turns.
The Info panel has been enhanced to provide a detailed energy diagram showing the flow of energy from and to the wheels from the battery, electric motors, and gas engine. When the colors are in green, it's a quick indication the power is going from the wheels to reclaim energy to charge the battery. This screen also provides real time miles per gallon indications. Press the Consumption button and you see a graph which provides your Consumption information. Firstly the real time bar graph on the right side indicates MPG like the previous screen but in a bar view. To the near left of that is a X, Y bar graph that shows consumption in MPG on average in 5 minute intervals allowing you to see your average for up to 30 minutes ago. It also shows you how much energy you reclaimed in watts illustrated by a green E. Each one means you've reclaimed 50watts of power. A stack of 4 of them means you reclaimed 200 watts during that 5 minute interval. Below all of this there is a average MPG and miles driven since you last reset. There is no Distance to Empty!! I find this a definite booboo on Lexus. I guess than couldn't get accurate numbers together so removed it. I still thing that should have done the math based on the current MPG and gallons remaining in the tank.
There are a couple of interesting things the dealer told us:
Never run the 400 out of gas. If you do so, and try to start the 400 three times, it will shut the entire system down. Only Lexus can take over from there and charging the 400 requires a special battery charger to which there are only 2 of them in the entire country (I guess as of now).
He also stated that in order to get the SULEV rating the 400 had to have a vapor pump, I guess similar to the GS430. After you turn the 400 off you might hear a pump working, you may also hear it working several hours later so don't panic. Moreover if you run the vehicle with low fuel in hot climates about 90F degrees, when you attempt to open the fuel door, the Display under the speedometer will say please wait with a progress bar indicating about when it will open the fuel door. The manual says it could be up to 5-10 minutes. The sales rep said in testing, a few times they had it take 30 minutes. Yikes, can you imagine being late, going to get fuel, and having to wait 30 minutes for the fuel door to open, I'd keep a crow bar in the vehicle for prying the fuel door open :-)
Lastly he said that if you leave the 400 parked for over 2 weeks at a time, you should have someone start it and run it for at least 10 minutes. I guess the batteries drain over even short periods of time.
Overall, I enjoy the 400 for its speed and acceleration. Despite my driving I still managed decent MPG numbers on the highway. Around town we'll see.
Not too much else that's different about the 400 (beyond what's posted in my link above). I actually like the metal trim over the wood offered in the 330, but not over what's offered in my GX or GS.
As I learn more, I'll post it here!
The RX400h will take many a bit of time to get used to, but it is worth it. I posted my first impressions from a test drive at ... https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...&page=20&pp=15 please be sure to grab a look at that.
The RX400h uses the electric and gas motors independently or together to provide wheel power, charge to the batteries or additional traction (in the case of the rear electric motor). Until we began driving the 400 for a bit of time, it was difficult to tell the pattern the computer uses to invoke any one of these combinations of power sources. I still don't have it down completely.
When you start the 400, most times the Ready indicator will display on the dash below the power meter (this replaces the tachometer), but you hear no engine. The engine will kick on for two reasons. 1) if it is cold and the engine warmth will be required to heat the cabin, or 2) the battery is low so the engine is required to charge the batteries.
The 400's shift pattern is not P,R, N, D, 4,3,2,1 as do most 5-speed transmissions. The 400 has a continously variable transmission so basically you have P, R, N, D, B. The B is for utilizing braking from the engine instead of just the pads and the electric motor generator.
We placed the 400 in Drive and began to drive out of the parking lot. The monitors indicate (through a clearly illustrated display under the speedometer) that the battery is providing the energy to the wheels. As we depressed the throttle and the vehicle's speed rose above 15mph the gas engine started. The diagram shows this also, but we could feel the vehicle shake a bit as the engine first starts for providing force to the wheels. While driving over 30mph normally the gas engine does the bulk of the work unless we were at or under 5% throttle. When we really pushed things the electric motor will combine with the gas engine and thrusted us ahead at any speed. As we let go of the pedal, or braked the energy would reverse back to the battery. We also noticed on the power meter that the needle would go into the blue. The power meter has replaced the tachometer as found in most gas only vehicles. At first I thought I was miss it, but not so. It provides an extremely accurate indicatation of the energy used or reclaimed. At 0, there is a shaded area on the power meter. This normally indicates running on battery. Blue indicates reclaiming energy to charge the batteries and up to 100 or 200kw means the gas engine is running as well. If you hit 200kw, hold on, because you'll feel it at any speed.
Driving the 400 is fun. Try to keep your attention off the various meters and you really begin to enjoy it. Mostly because of its amazing power. You notice this on the higway. Driving 40, or 50, or 60, or 70, or even 80 and hit the throttle you'll pass nearly anything out there. It is incredible! From a stop light, the acceleration is not as agressive until you hit 15-20mph and at full throttle this drive system makes noise, but wooh how smooth it is!
The brakes are very good, and it's a bit redeeming knowing you're putting something back via charging the batteries.
The 400 is roughly 4-500 pounds heavier than the 330 and the bulk of this weight is centered under the seats due to the batteries. The end result is no loss and balance, but improved ride. We were told that Lexus tuned the suspension a bit stiffer to accomodate the batteries and overall the ride is significantly better than the 330, not nearly as bouncy (particulary in the back seat) yet still offers a soft smooth ride. Handling is also much better in my opinion. Much heavier feeling in the steering and less body roll through the turns.
The Info panel has been enhanced to provide a detailed energy diagram showing the flow of energy from and to the wheels from the battery, electric motors, and gas engine. When the colors are in green, it's a quick indication the power is going from the wheels to reclaim energy to charge the battery. This screen also provides real time miles per gallon indications. Press the Consumption button and you see a graph which provides your Consumption information. Firstly the real time bar graph on the right side indicates MPG like the previous screen but in a bar view. To the near left of that is a X, Y bar graph that shows consumption in MPG on average in 5 minute intervals allowing you to see your average for up to 30 minutes ago. It also shows you how much energy you reclaimed in watts illustrated by a green E. Each one means you've reclaimed 50watts of power. A stack of 4 of them means you reclaimed 200 watts during that 5 minute interval. Below all of this there is a average MPG and miles driven since you last reset. There is no Distance to Empty!! I find this a definite booboo on Lexus. I guess than couldn't get accurate numbers together so removed it. I still thing that should have done the math based on the current MPG and gallons remaining in the tank.
There are a couple of interesting things the dealer told us:
Never run the 400 out of gas. If you do so, and try to start the 400 three times, it will shut the entire system down. Only Lexus can take over from there and charging the 400 requires a special battery charger to which there are only 2 of them in the entire country (I guess as of now).
He also stated that in order to get the SULEV rating the 400 had to have a vapor pump, I guess similar to the GS430. After you turn the 400 off you might hear a pump working, you may also hear it working several hours later so don't panic. Moreover if you run the vehicle with low fuel in hot climates about 90F degrees, when you attempt to open the fuel door, the Display under the speedometer will say please wait with a progress bar indicating about when it will open the fuel door. The manual says it could be up to 5-10 minutes. The sales rep said in testing, a few times they had it take 30 minutes. Yikes, can you imagine being late, going to get fuel, and having to wait 30 minutes for the fuel door to open, I'd keep a crow bar in the vehicle for prying the fuel door open :-)
Lastly he said that if you leave the 400 parked for over 2 weeks at a time, you should have someone start it and run it for at least 10 minutes. I guess the batteries drain over even short periods of time.
Overall, I enjoy the 400 for its speed and acceleration. Despite my driving I still managed decent MPG numbers on the highway. Around town we'll see.
Not too much else that's different about the 400 (beyond what's posted in my link above). I actually like the metal trim over the wood offered in the 330, but not over what's offered in my GX or GS.
As I learn more, I'll post it here!
Last edited by looknow12; 05-08-05 at 02:29 PM.
05-08-05, 04:24 PM
#2
Thanks for the review.
Everything sounds great except the gas tank part. Geez, I can't imagine waiting for the door to open. It takes me enough time already at the pump and I am late. I can't imagine if I had to wiat 15 mins.
Sounds cool though.
Good luck!
Everything sounds great except the gas tank part. Geez, I can't imagine waiting for the door to open. It takes me enough time already at the pump and I am late. I can't imagine if I had to wiat 15 mins.
Sounds cool though.
Good luck!
05-08-05, 06:04 PM
#4
Lexus Fanatic
Wow...very intersting... thanks for the great hands-on review from an owner.
This hybrid synergy drive sure is a true technological marvel.
The downsides, however, seem unnecessarily awkward:
Why can't the 400h be allowed to run solely on battery in emergency when gas runs out, and when even the battery runs out, be allowed to jump-start the ignition of the gas engine to recharge the main batteries?
Why can't there be an emergent force-open button for the fuel door that won't open unless the user acknowledges to a disclaimer on screen which warns that doing so will compromise the low emission and is advisable only under emergency?
Why should the car be started for every two weeks to avoid batteries draining when there could be a separate battery reserved only for engine ignition, just like any other gas-powered cars?
Hopefully Toyota/Lexus will be able to improve these aspects and ultimately make hybrids work just like regular vehicles for the end users--just fill up the tank and run!
This hybrid synergy drive sure is a true technological marvel.
The downsides, however, seem unnecessarily awkward:
Why can't the 400h be allowed to run solely on battery in emergency when gas runs out, and when even the battery runs out, be allowed to jump-start the ignition of the gas engine to recharge the main batteries?
Why can't there be an emergent force-open button for the fuel door that won't open unless the user acknowledges to a disclaimer on screen which warns that doing so will compromise the low emission and is advisable only under emergency?
Why should the car be started for every two weeks to avoid batteries draining when there could be a separate battery reserved only for engine ignition, just like any other gas-powered cars?
Hopefully Toyota/Lexus will be able to improve these aspects and ultimately make hybrids work just like regular vehicles for the end users--just fill up the tank and run!
Last edited by XeroK00L; 05-09-05 at 10:26 AM.
05-09-05, 02:58 AM
#5
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by XeroK00L
The downsides, however, seem unnessarily awkward:
Why can't the 400h be allowed to run solely on battery in emergency when gas runs out, and when even the battery runs out, be allowed to jump-start the ignition of the gas engine to recharge the main batteries?
Why can't the 400h be allowed to run solely on battery in emergency when gas runs out, and when even the battery runs out, be allowed to jump-start the ignition of the gas engine to recharge the main batteries?
Originally Posted by XeroK00L
Why can't there be an emergent force-open button for the fuel door that won't open unless the user acknowledges to a disclaimer on screen which warns that doing so will compromise the low emission and is advisable only under emergency?
Originally Posted by XeroK00L
Why should the car be started for every two weeks to avoid batteries draining when there could be a separate battery reserved only for engine ignition, just like any other gas-powered cars?
The technology life span of a vehicle like this vs. a 1970 Lincoln Continental (for example) is much less. In those days there was nothing to change from year to year. Now a days, in one year, hundreds of computer settings can be changed, with no additional hardware, and this could completely alter the way the vehicle drives.
05-09-05, 09:26 AM
#6
Speaks French in Russian
Nice review!! However I also dont like the fuel door thing despite the SULEV rating. I heard that people wait about 15sec for the door to open, not 30min though. That seems crazy. You will be at the gas station and everyone will be looking at you like your retarded. Keep us posted about this when you fill up next time.
05-09-05, 10:23 AM
#7
The downsides, however, seem unnessarily awkward:
Why can't the 400h be allowed to run solely on battery in emergency when gas runs out, and when even the battery runs out, be allowed to jump-start the ignition of the gas engine to recharge the main batteries?
Why can't there be an emergent force-open button for the fuel door that won't open unless the user acknowledges to a disclaimer on screen which warns that doing so will compromise the low emission and is advisable only under emergency?
Why should the car be started for every two weeks to avoid batteries draining when there could be a separate battery reserved only for engine ignition, just like any other gas-powered cars?
Hopefully Toyota/Lexus will be able to improve these aspects and ultimately make hybrids work just like regular vehicles for the end users--just fill up the tank and run!
Why can't the 400h be allowed to run solely on battery in emergency when gas runs out, and when even the battery runs out, be allowed to jump-start the ignition of the gas engine to recharge the main batteries?
Why can't there be an emergent force-open button for the fuel door that won't open unless the user acknowledges to a disclaimer on screen which warns that doing so will compromise the low emission and is advisable only under emergency?
Why should the car be started for every two weeks to avoid batteries draining when there could be a separate battery reserved only for engine ignition, just like any other gas-powered cars?
Hopefully Toyota/Lexus will be able to improve these aspects and ultimately make hybrids work just like regular vehicles for the end users--just fill up the tank and run!
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05-09-05, 08:12 PM
#9
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by magneto112
Nice review!! However I also dont like the fuel door thing despite the SULEV rating. I heard that people wait about 15sec for the door to open, not 30min though. That seems crazy. You will be at the gas station and everyone will be looking at you like your retarded. Keep us posted about this when you fill up next time.
05-09-05, 11:38 PM
#10
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Why should the car be started for every two weeks to avoid batteries draining when there could be a separate battery reserved only for engine ignition, just like any other gas-powered cars?
Why can't the 400h be allowed to run solely on battery in emergency when gas runs out, and when even the battery runs out, be allowed to jump-start the ignition of the gas engine to recharge the main batteries?
05-10-05, 03:44 AM
#11
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by inkblot185
Actually there is a regular car battery in addition to the hybrid batteries.
From my experience it seems like you probably wouldn't get too far before you run out of juice, even if the vehicle allowed you to drive in electric mode only.
From my experience it seems like you probably wouldn't get too far before you run out of juice, even if the vehicle allowed you to drive in electric mode only.
We'll all know in time as we experience more about what this vehicle has to offer. And then with this great forum we can discuss it and learn from each other's experiences
06-07-05, 09:39 AM
#12
Lexus Test Driver
Time flies while you are in a 400h
I've told my new RX400h owners not to leave town for over 2 weeks. So far we haven't experienced the dreaded 2-3 minute wait time for the fuel filler door. The gas tank is made of metal unlike the conventional RX and goes through a pressure equalization process before allowing the fuel door to open. 30 minutes is quite an exaggeration. DO NOT run out of gas. If you do DO NOT attempt to restart it more than once. The problem is that it doesn't make noise as a rule anyway so if you don't see the "READY" light then don't turn the key repetitively. It could need towing in to be reinitialized etc. Otherwise ownership is blissful and novel. Enjoy the atmosphere...
Rock
Rock
06-07-05, 09:51 AM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
Edmunds recently reports back with the latest status of their long-term test of a Prius.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=101393
In this particular test they deliberately kept driving the Prius until it was completely out of gas AND out of battery. To my surprise they were able to start the car immediately right after they added a gallon of fuel they reserved in the cargo area. So the hybrid system may not be really as counter-intuitively designed as this thread made it to be after all.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=101393
In this particular test they deliberately kept driving the Prius until it was completely out of gas AND out of battery. To my surprise they were able to start the car immediately right after they added a gallon of fuel they reserved in the cargo area. So the hybrid system may not be really as counter-intuitively designed as this thread made it to be after all.
06-07-05, 09:55 AM
#14
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Rockville
I've told my new RX400h owners not to leave town for over 2 weeks. So far we haven't experienced the dreaded 2-3 minute wait time for the fuel filler door. The gas tank is made of metal unlike the conventional RX and goes through a pressure equalization process before allowing the fuel door to open. 30 minutes is quite an exaggeration. DO NOT run out of gas. If you do DO NOT attempt to restart it more than once. The problem is that it doesn't make noise as a rule anyway so if you don't see the "READY" light then don't turn the key repetitively. It could need towing in to be reinitialized etc. Otherwise ownership is blissful and novel. Enjoy the atmosphere...
Rock
Rock
On the flipside, my dad left his key on by accident. Jump starting is very easy, there is a panel in the engine compartment with to plastic clips. Underneath stores the alternate battery (common to most cars) and jumping it took only a second.
My 06 GS430 had a problem as well. I left it at my parents house and they somehow left the ignition on while trying to start it. They apparently didn't realize you have to press the brake before starting. Anyway, I tried jumping it and it wouldn't start with a 30amp charge / 70amp crank start charger. I then went deeper into their garage to pull out the 40amp charge / 200amp crank start charger. You know the one on wheels. This got the job done and I haven't had a problem since it started. I guess the GS has quite an electrical system or heavy draw starter, because a regular charger wouldn't cut it.
07-01-05, 07:25 AM
#15
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I have had the RX400h for about 3 weeks now, and have used it everyday to drive to work. I have done 3 refills, twice at over 95 degrees (once at about 102) and with about 1/4 tank of gas left and the gas tank opened instantly. The car is a joy to drive everyday and the preformance is great.