Thoughts (quasi-review) of the HS
05-11-10, 12:54 PM
#16
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Congrats! I sort of feel the same way; I focused too much on whether I could live with the hybrid drive train and didn't spend enough time thinking about the little stuff when I had an overnight test drive. I can live with the car for now, but I'm not sure I'm the target audience for Lexus and I doubt I'll be buying another. But that all depends what's on the market in a few years - I'm hoping to go all-electric but we'll see what they actually deliver. One reason I'm in the HS now is I didn't find another car I liked better among the 2010's.
Bottom line, I don't feel bad about my selection at all, since I don't think there's any way I could have caught the little things without living with it for a week (or a month or a year). Still, I do hope these are the types of things that are considered as Lexus marches onward in the relentless pursuit.
05-18-10, 11:51 PM
#17
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I did my first substantial highway driving in the car over the last two days. On balance, I'm extremely pleased with the mileage. I don't have much trouble achieving mileage in excess of 40 mpg. And on regular! I can't tell what I get around town, yet. It looks like high 20s, but I think that might partially be a product of when the car was spending significant time idling on the lot.
One new thing that annoys me -- the dynamic volume compensation control is next to useless. With the amount of technology in this car, they really should get that right (my wife's X3 nails it perfectly). But maybe it wouldn't make much of a difference -- the non-ML system really is rather poor... On the other hand, I loved getting into the car today and the stereo immediately playing the song I had been listening to on my iphone earlier. Too cool.
One new thing that annoys me -- the dynamic volume compensation control is next to useless. With the amount of technology in this car, they really should get that right (my wife's X3 nails it perfectly). But maybe it wouldn't make much of a difference -- the non-ML system really is rather poor... On the other hand, I loved getting into the car today and the stereo immediately playing the song I had been listening to on my iphone earlier. Too cool.
05-19-10, 08:01 AM
#19
Cool! I guess I drive too fast to get 40 on the highway, but 37 is still fine to me. I seem to get mid-30's around town too, so it must be driving profile that makes the difference - no other clue why some only get in the 20's around town.
I too noticed the dynamic volume issue - I tried with it on and off to see if it was just reversed
but no luck. I've never owned a car with it before though, so I had nothing to compare to. IMO, the base sound system isn't bad - not as good as the system in my Saab, but better than the one in our Odyssey.
I too noticed the dynamic volume issue - I tried with it on and off to see if it was just reversed
but no luck. I've never owned a car with it before though, so I had nothing to compare to. IMO, the base sound system isn't bad - not as good as the system in my Saab, but better than the one in our Odyssey.
05-19-10, 11:37 AM
#20
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I have had a Fusion Hybrid and a Camry Hybrid. I really liked the Ford. For $32K, it was loaded and had park assist, blind-spot warning, weather map on nav, snf Sync. In addition, the displays are first-rate. There are plenty of cheap bits, and I sold it because the seats weren't quite comfortable enough for me. I might consider the Lincoln version coming out, as I would hope the interior would be nicer.
I drove the HS recently, and I did like the interior for the most part, save the gratuitous wood accents and some of the plastic. I didn't like some of the hybrid sounds that it made when braking. The Ford was more seemless in its shift from gas to electric.
I liked the HS, but I just wanted to add my comments.
I drove the HS recently, and I did like the interior for the most part, save the gratuitous wood accents and some of the plastic. I didn't like some of the hybrid sounds that it made when braking. The Ford was more seemless in its shift from gas to electric.
I liked the HS, but I just wanted to add my comments.
06-03-10, 08:59 PM
#21
After having the car a week, I'm very impressed with the technology package and updates to the nav system over the previous generation systems. Toyota finally removed some of the ridiculous nanny lockouts - I can do the following while the car is moving with this system (locked out on previous generation):
- see and select songs in list (eg for iPod)
- see list of previous destinations and select as desired destination
- see info about memory point on nav (street adr)
- see list of memory points (addresses)
- see numeric caller ID when phone rings
- voice reads names of streets
- voice announces fairly detailed alerts of traffic jams on route automatically
- voice announces weather alerts (unfortunately no details given so must mouse around and click weather map icons to see weather info, which then disappears after a few seconds - clumsy and requires too much driver attn to get at info)
- auto routes around traffic jams with decent ability to judge fastest route
The radar cruise is surprisingly useful. I thought it'd be a silly gimmick as normally never use cruise. However, ability of system to keep up with traffic vice conventional design of locking speed is useful. Car accelerates and brakes automatically.
Lane keep assist is pretty good. However, it doesn't visually tell you which boundary you're approaching (left or right) and steering nudge is so gentle it's nearly imperceptible. System appears to shut off if wipers are on, which means it is of no use when it's raining - a time when it would be very helpful.
Front camera is nice, but lack of perspective markers/lines makes it hard to know where car is with respect to image. Evidently, it's purpose is to avoid crash when slowly entering blind intersection. I'd like to also be able to use as a parking aid when in tight spaces, but it is not well suited for that. Auto mode is annoying as comes on too frequently - every time car goes under certain speed. Would be better if only came on after complete stop.
HUD is excellent feature, as I prefer digital speedo like on Prius. Having animated nav icons and audio status is very handy too. Visibility is poor with polarized sunglasses unless crank up brightness or move head slightly to side. Would not be issue except hard to find brightness button by feel.
Power windows very good - auto slows as nears end of travel, driver can operate passenger windows even when passenger buttons are disabled (kiddie lockout), system wont attempt to raise window if button pulled when window fully raised. Unfortunately, remote lowering of all window by fob requires dealer visit to enable per manual.
Seats surprisingly comfortable. Leather very soft, as are headrests.
Ergonomics mostly good, but buttons to left of wheel are hard to see or identify by feel (HUD). When wiper stalk moved to on position, hand hits gear shift due to proximity. Will likely learn to adapt to this. Steering wheel position and texture and spoke placement very comfortable. Fonts and colors make nav screen and combination meter easy to read. Analog speedo has clear tic marks every 5 mph, making easy to interpolate speed when not driving at speed that's multiple of ten. Color scheme of speedo is very attractive. Fade in/out of meter when start/stop car is nice touch. Can switch HUD speedo between mph and km/h by pushing HUD button - good for those who drive into Canada.
Lack of smog sensing HVAC recirc is disappointing. Trip computer lacks elapsed time feature. Sun visors provide mediocre side light blockage. Glove box small and is issue since so few cubbies in car. Felt on A-pillars appears to be bubbling up in areas perhaps due to not being glued.
Owner cannot program fob so one click unlocks all doors but grasping driver door handle only unlocks that door. Requires dealer visit.
Headlights are mediocre (I have non LED). Fog lights are unusually good. Nice to be able to config auto on sensitivity without dealer visit. LED should be part of tech pkg.
Engine power usually ok, but have had a few white knuckle merging incidents. Engine noise a tad more than I prefer. Ride is fairly smooth considering low profile tires. Steering has a lot of feedback when driving, especially at slow speeds. Way more than any other Toyota or Lexus I've driven - impressive for EPS. Brakes a bit touchy but good. Lots of squealing from generators during braking - a bit more than I'd expect for a Lexus. I suspect the high frequency sounds cannot be damped without impractical methods. Legroom and headroom fine for 6' person. Back support excellent (I have bad back and spend 3-4 hrs a day in car without problems). Cupholders flimsy and obscured if armrest forward. Need more storage cubbies, especially for cell phone. iPod jack stupidly positioned out in open, making iPod theft target unless unplug and put away every time park car. Switchgear all of excellent feel and precise. Navigation mouse interface excellent; surprising how slow CPU in nav system is as sluggish to accept rapid address keystrokes. Rear sears and room decent for adults for one hr or less trips. Trunk size respectable but no pass through and seats don't fold down.
Gas mileage in upper 30s and low 40s in mix of highway and stop and go traffic. Mainly use norm mode, occasionally use pwr mode. Using Eco mode pushed mileage up a few mpg in unscientific test.
AC seems to run fan fast for long time, but cools quickly and keeps temp very consistent. Much better at keeping temp of air coming out vents constant when switch between in/out air source than my previous ES. seat ventilators excellent.
iPod interface is buggy - after shut off car, iPod not recognized after start car. Must reboot car. (I have tried trick of shutting off stereo before car but doesn't solve problem.). Hopefullycan be fixed with sw update.
Bluetooth phone interface much louder and clearer than my previous Lexus system (07 ES)
Bluetooth audio is nice, but with iPhone is not possible to skip to next or previous song, view song list, etc. Per manual system has the features, depending on audio device paired. Hard to believe iphone does not support. Hoping iPhone os 4 will fix.
Audio system is mediocre. Unfortunately, the ML audio requires a 5 month special order - i feel a luxury car should have a luxury audio system standard, and certainly available without special order. Bass is good, so is treble, but just does not sound very pleasing to the ear. I will say it is noticeably better than the standard audio my 07 ES had.
Interior cosmetics very good - I have beige leather with dark brown wood and dark brown dash. Exterior styling, though controversial, seems classy and modern. Sapphire white color is very nice.
Toyo tires have ridge near bead that extends beyond alloy rims, so if drive against curb, rubber ridge will hit curb instead of rims. Nice feature that will reduce rim damage.
Flawless fit and finish, flawless paint, no rattles, all features work perfectly. This is the way a Lexus or Toyota car should be- it's about time! Comparing this to the problematic 07 ES I had before it, it seems Toyota is returning to it's roots of producing quality product.
As usual, dealer screws up everything they touch, even on new car PDS: partially screwed bolts under plastic pieces under bumper by wheels, fuse box cover not secured properly (latch tab fastened but two hinge tabs at other end of lid siting on top of box instead of in slots of box), chrome by running board area peeling off (double sided tape coming off), rubber bands and chunks of plastic wrap dangling from seats and doors, key fob scuffed and scratched as likely dropped on hard surface a few times, etc).
- see and select songs in list (eg for iPod)
- see list of previous destinations and select as desired destination
- see info about memory point on nav (street adr)
- see list of memory points (addresses)
- see numeric caller ID when phone rings
- voice reads names of streets
- voice announces fairly detailed alerts of traffic jams on route automatically
- voice announces weather alerts (unfortunately no details given so must mouse around and click weather map icons to see weather info, which then disappears after a few seconds - clumsy and requires too much driver attn to get at info)
- auto routes around traffic jams with decent ability to judge fastest route
The radar cruise is surprisingly useful. I thought it'd be a silly gimmick as normally never use cruise. However, ability of system to keep up with traffic vice conventional design of locking speed is useful. Car accelerates and brakes automatically.
Lane keep assist is pretty good. However, it doesn't visually tell you which boundary you're approaching (left or right) and steering nudge is so gentle it's nearly imperceptible. System appears to shut off if wipers are on, which means it is of no use when it's raining - a time when it would be very helpful.
Front camera is nice, but lack of perspective markers/lines makes it hard to know where car is with respect to image. Evidently, it's purpose is to avoid crash when slowly entering blind intersection. I'd like to also be able to use as a parking aid when in tight spaces, but it is not well suited for that. Auto mode is annoying as comes on too frequently - every time car goes under certain speed. Would be better if only came on after complete stop.
HUD is excellent feature, as I prefer digital speedo like on Prius. Having animated nav icons and audio status is very handy too. Visibility is poor with polarized sunglasses unless crank up brightness or move head slightly to side. Would not be issue except hard to find brightness button by feel.
Power windows very good - auto slows as nears end of travel, driver can operate passenger windows even when passenger buttons are disabled (kiddie lockout), system wont attempt to raise window if button pulled when window fully raised. Unfortunately, remote lowering of all window by fob requires dealer visit to enable per manual.
Seats surprisingly comfortable. Leather very soft, as are headrests.
Ergonomics mostly good, but buttons to left of wheel are hard to see or identify by feel (HUD). When wiper stalk moved to on position, hand hits gear shift due to proximity. Will likely learn to adapt to this. Steering wheel position and texture and spoke placement very comfortable. Fonts and colors make nav screen and combination meter easy to read. Analog speedo has clear tic marks every 5 mph, making easy to interpolate speed when not driving at speed that's multiple of ten. Color scheme of speedo is very attractive. Fade in/out of meter when start/stop car is nice touch. Can switch HUD speedo between mph and km/h by pushing HUD button - good for those who drive into Canada.
Lack of smog sensing HVAC recirc is disappointing. Trip computer lacks elapsed time feature. Sun visors provide mediocre side light blockage. Glove box small and is issue since so few cubbies in car. Felt on A-pillars appears to be bubbling up in areas perhaps due to not being glued.
Owner cannot program fob so one click unlocks all doors but grasping driver door handle only unlocks that door. Requires dealer visit.
Headlights are mediocre (I have non LED). Fog lights are unusually good. Nice to be able to config auto on sensitivity without dealer visit. LED should be part of tech pkg.
Engine power usually ok, but have had a few white knuckle merging incidents. Engine noise a tad more than I prefer. Ride is fairly smooth considering low profile tires. Steering has a lot of feedback when driving, especially at slow speeds. Way more than any other Toyota or Lexus I've driven - impressive for EPS. Brakes a bit touchy but good. Lots of squealing from generators during braking - a bit more than I'd expect for a Lexus. I suspect the high frequency sounds cannot be damped without impractical methods. Legroom and headroom fine for 6' person. Back support excellent (I have bad back and spend 3-4 hrs a day in car without problems). Cupholders flimsy and obscured if armrest forward. Need more storage cubbies, especially for cell phone. iPod jack stupidly positioned out in open, making iPod theft target unless unplug and put away every time park car. Switchgear all of excellent feel and precise. Navigation mouse interface excellent; surprising how slow CPU in nav system is as sluggish to accept rapid address keystrokes. Rear sears and room decent for adults for one hr or less trips. Trunk size respectable but no pass through and seats don't fold down.
Gas mileage in upper 30s and low 40s in mix of highway and stop and go traffic. Mainly use norm mode, occasionally use pwr mode. Using Eco mode pushed mileage up a few mpg in unscientific test.
AC seems to run fan fast for long time, but cools quickly and keeps temp very consistent. Much better at keeping temp of air coming out vents constant when switch between in/out air source than my previous ES. seat ventilators excellent.
iPod interface is buggy - after shut off car, iPod not recognized after start car. Must reboot car. (I have tried trick of shutting off stereo before car but doesn't solve problem.). Hopefullycan be fixed with sw update.
Bluetooth phone interface much louder and clearer than my previous Lexus system (07 ES)
Bluetooth audio is nice, but with iPhone is not possible to skip to next or previous song, view song list, etc. Per manual system has the features, depending on audio device paired. Hard to believe iphone does not support. Hoping iPhone os 4 will fix.
Audio system is mediocre. Unfortunately, the ML audio requires a 5 month special order - i feel a luxury car should have a luxury audio system standard, and certainly available without special order. Bass is good, so is treble, but just does not sound very pleasing to the ear. I will say it is noticeably better than the standard audio my 07 ES had.
Interior cosmetics very good - I have beige leather with dark brown wood and dark brown dash. Exterior styling, though controversial, seems classy and modern. Sapphire white color is very nice.
Toyo tires have ridge near bead that extends beyond alloy rims, so if drive against curb, rubber ridge will hit curb instead of rims. Nice feature that will reduce rim damage.
Flawless fit and finish, flawless paint, no rattles, all features work perfectly. This is the way a Lexus or Toyota car should be- it's about time! Comparing this to the problematic 07 ES I had before it, it seems Toyota is returning to it's roots of producing quality product.
As usual, dealer screws up everything they touch, even on new car PDS: partially screwed bolts under plastic pieces under bumper by wheels, fuse box cover not secured properly (latch tab fastened but two hinge tabs at other end of lid siting on top of box instead of in slots of box), chrome by running board area peeling off (double sided tape coming off), rubber bands and chunks of plastic wrap dangling from seats and doors, key fob scuffed and scratched as likely dropped on hard surface a few times, etc).
Last edited by YotaCarFan; 06-05-10 at 10:19 PM.
06-04-10, 07:13 AM
#22
Very nice review!
A few more thoughts of my own after another month driving the HS:
- I really like the steering wheel - I have no idea why they put polished/slick wood on high end steering wheels.
- The doors don't have that solid "click" sound when they close, and the trunk is even worse. They sound cheap, and I find I have to tell my kids not to slam the doors. Never had to do that with Saab/Acura/Honda doors. Maybe they lightened the doors too much to save weight?
- Nothing peeling/loosening on my HS yet. Other than the scuff marks on the hard black plastic on the doors / seat backs, everything still looks showroom new after 4k miles.
- Agree about the nice switchgear - was just thinking about that on my drive to work this morning.
- If you use an iPod as your main source of music, I wouldn't sweat not getting the ML. It would be like buying a high end HD TV and then watching SD cable or VCR's on it.
- I liked how the side mirrors tilt down when you put the car in reverse, but they stopped working after about a week. I couldn't find anything in the manual or on the customization menu to check. On the list for the 5K service.
- Don't like the auto-dimming mirrors, especially since they dim when I first start the car in the garage in the morning and I can't see behind me. I know I can turn them off each time, but I'd rather be able to default them to off.
- Still hate the lack of storage, and the inconvenience of having to slide the armrest back before it will open. Some engineers spent time designing and testing that lockout, and I have no idea why - seems like a waste of resources to me. They could have spent it on seat back pockets instead :-)
- I'm learning to live with the throttle lag. I've figured out that if I ease the throttle open, the electric motor gives a kick without the tranny switching "gears", so I don't have to wait for the engine to rev up. Doesn't help with passing situations though - I still need to hit the gas a second or two before the lane is clear so I have power when it's time to pass. Certainly adds some spice to an otherwise boring ride :-)
A few more thoughts of my own after another month driving the HS:
- I really like the steering wheel - I have no idea why they put polished/slick wood on high end steering wheels.
- The doors don't have that solid "click" sound when they close, and the trunk is even worse. They sound cheap, and I find I have to tell my kids not to slam the doors. Never had to do that with Saab/Acura/Honda doors. Maybe they lightened the doors too much to save weight?
- Nothing peeling/loosening on my HS yet. Other than the scuff marks on the hard black plastic on the doors / seat backs, everything still looks showroom new after 4k miles.
- Agree about the nice switchgear - was just thinking about that on my drive to work this morning.
- If you use an iPod as your main source of music, I wouldn't sweat not getting the ML. It would be like buying a high end HD TV and then watching SD cable or VCR's on it.
- I liked how the side mirrors tilt down when you put the car in reverse, but they stopped working after about a week. I couldn't find anything in the manual or on the customization menu to check. On the list for the 5K service.
- Don't like the auto-dimming mirrors, especially since they dim when I first start the car in the garage in the morning and I can't see behind me. I know I can turn them off each time, but I'd rather be able to default them to off.
- Still hate the lack of storage, and the inconvenience of having to slide the armrest back before it will open. Some engineers spent time designing and testing that lockout, and I have no idea why - seems like a waste of resources to me. They could have spent it on seat back pockets instead :-)
- I'm learning to live with the throttle lag. I've figured out that if I ease the throttle open, the electric motor gives a kick without the tranny switching "gears", so I don't have to wait for the engine to rev up. Doesn't help with passing situations though - I still need to hit the gas a second or two before the lane is clear so I have power when it's time to pass. Certainly adds some spice to an otherwise boring ride :-)
06-05-10, 05:36 PM
#23
Magellan, for your mirrors tilting when in reverse, make sure your mirror control is set to either the right or left. If the mirror control is set in the middle (meaning not to either side) the mirrors won't tilt when in reverse.
06-05-10, 08:31 PM
#24
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Location: NY
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Edmunds is great for finding out what you should be paying. Here is some numbers they showed me while searching:
Total with Options - MSRP $64,760 - Invoice $57,940 - Others are Paying $60,516
Total with Options - MSRP $64,760 - Invoice $57,940 - Others are Paying $60,516
06-06-10, 07:16 PM
#25
Cool! That did it. Where did you learn that?
06-13-10, 05:15 AM
#28
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I'm an owners manual reader, I love that stuff. Unfortunately, I can't always remember where to find things. And sometimes the index isn't the most helpful. Frequently, it's easier to find info by searching the online manual.
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