Report: Lexus HS 250h not meeting volume projections in U.S.
05-06-10, 07:09 AM
#16
Ouch on the Aztec comment 
Some of us care more about handling than size for a given price, and wouldn't even consider a floaty Camry. Heck I was intentionally downsizing to a smaller car. Plus some of us are willing to pay a premium to have a car that isn't in rental fleets. Isn't that at least partly why your wife bought a TSX when she could have had a bigger, V-6 powered Accord for that price?
And what makes you think the CT200 will have a more modern hybrid system than the HS? The specs sound like it's the same as the current Prius. Is it really that much more advanced than what's in the HS/TCH? Can you point out specific technologies that make it more advanced? Or are you just assuming that the latest Prius came out after the TCH, so it must be more advanced? Any marketing guy can slap a label "generation x+1" on a car - that doesn't make it more advanced in reality.
I'm not saying the HS is a great car - I've been pretty critical about mine on this forum. But I think it does an OK job of balancing mpg with upscale sport-sedan pretentions. I'm just not sure there's much of a market for that with gas prices under $3, and if I had more time to shop, I probably wouldn't have bought mine. I was desperate, and ended up buying more for the color and convenient location of the dealer than anything else!
Some of us care more about handling than size for a given price, and wouldn't even consider a floaty Camry. Heck I was intentionally downsizing to a smaller car. Plus some of us are willing to pay a premium to have a car that isn't in rental fleets. Isn't that at least partly why your wife bought a TSX when she could have had a bigger, V-6 powered Accord for that price?
And what makes you think the CT200 will have a more modern hybrid system than the HS? The specs sound like it's the same as the current Prius. Is it really that much more advanced than what's in the HS/TCH? Can you point out specific technologies that make it more advanced? Or are you just assuming that the latest Prius came out after the TCH, so it must be more advanced? Any marketing guy can slap a label "generation x+1" on a car - that doesn't make it more advanced in reality.
I'm not saying the HS is a great car - I've been pretty critical about mine on this forum
. But I think it does an OK job of balancing mpg with upscale sport-sedan pretentions. I'm just not sure there's much of a market for that with gas prices under $3, and if I had more time to shop, I probably wouldn't have bought mine. I was desperate, and ended up buying more for the color and convenient location of the dealer than anything else!
05-06-10, 07:25 AM
#17
Aztec was "unique" too....
I like the HS250, but the price was too high for the little that you got. A Camry Hybrid with the nearly-identical powertrain was at least $5k cheaper (loaded TCH vs. base HS)...and the Camry is much bigger inside. Cargo space is debatable because TCH allows for folding rear seatback. My loaded to the max Prius V is still cheaper than a base HS and it has techy stuff on it that only a loaded HS can match (aka $48k!). The Lexus guy is right...when people want hybrid, they generally look at Prius. The HS needs to have better MPGs and a more sophisticated powertrain...a powertrain that is, at least, a major update from the old tech Camry Hybrid. Now, you have major competitions on the way from other brands...and most of the competitions have better MPGs and more updated powertrain technology.
I understand that Hybrid technology is rapidly evolving, but it just plain sucks that the HS is already outdated just a few months after being introduced...and the competition is beating it at its own game (efficiency and MPGs). Whatever happened to Toyota/Lexus being the leader of hybrid technology? Here was a chance for Lexus to really lead the way...and what do they do? They introduced a Corolla-lookalike (yes, it is not a Corolla, but a regular bystander will think it is a Lexus Corolla) with a way outdated powertrain from a Camry Hybrid that debuted 3-4 years ago! Why?!! IMHO, they should have introduced the CT FIRST because, at least, the CT has the most updated hybrid technology with easily the best MPGs at least for the next few years. Then, in 1-2 years, once Li-battery gets going, Lexus would introduce the HS with Li-battery and updated powertrain.
I like the HS250, but the price was too high for the little that you got. A Camry Hybrid with the nearly-identical powertrain was at least $5k cheaper (loaded TCH vs. base HS)...and the Camry is much bigger inside. Cargo space is debatable because TCH allows for folding rear seatback. My loaded to the max Prius V is still cheaper than a base HS and it has techy stuff on it that only a loaded HS can match (aka $48k!). The Lexus guy is right...when people want hybrid, they generally look at Prius. The HS needs to have better MPGs and a more sophisticated powertrain...a powertrain that is, at least, a major update from the old tech Camry Hybrid. Now, you have major competitions on the way from other brands...and most of the competitions have better MPGs and more updated powertrain technology.
I understand that Hybrid technology is rapidly evolving, but it just plain sucks that the HS is already outdated just a few months after being introduced...and the competition is beating it at its own game (efficiency and MPGs). Whatever happened to Toyota/Lexus being the leader of hybrid technology? Here was a chance for Lexus to really lead the way...and what do they do? They introduced a Corolla-lookalike (yes, it is not a Corolla, but a regular bystander will think it is a Lexus Corolla) with a way outdated powertrain from a Camry Hybrid that debuted 3-4 years ago! Why?!! IMHO, they should have introduced the CT FIRST because, at least, the CT has the most updated hybrid technology with easily the best MPGs at least for the next few years. Then, in 1-2 years, once Li-battery gets going, Lexus would introduce the HS with Li-battery and updated powertrain.
05-06-10, 07:32 AM
#18
Actually, my wife and I debated for a long time b/w Camry V6 XLE vs. TSX I4...both had the same price...it came down to HIDs. This was why we got rid of the Corolla that we had because my wife can't see at night well with the dim Corolla headlights. I wanted to upgrade her headlights significantly. So, we ended up with a base TSX. (And like Camry, Accord comes with ordinary headlights...and more road noise!) In addition, a big bonus was that Acura service is just as cheap as Toyota's!!
Actually, as a family, we're moving away from luxury cars and into "rental-level" cars because i just hear too many stories of carjacking or people following you home. That was one of my biggest problem with my Mercedes G500...it stuck out too much...and it ended up being in my garage all week long. (And i live in a good neighborhood too! But i just hate it that i could not drive to Walmart or McDs with my MB.) I rather spend money on something else for now...like more guns!
And yeah, i am growing paranoid as i get older....
CT200 has a more modern hybrid powertrain because it uses 2010 Toyota Prius powertrain. HS uses a powertrain from 2007 or so Camry Hybrid (whatever year TCH came out). That is the difference. You can search for Prius powertrain and read it. Bottom line, 3 years of development is a lot for hybrid technology.
Actually, as a family, we're moving away from luxury cars and into "rental-level" cars because i just hear too many stories of carjacking or people following you home. That was one of my biggest problem with my Mercedes G500...it stuck out too much...and it ended up being in my garage all week long. (And i live in a good neighborhood too! But i just hate it that i could not drive to Walmart or McDs with my MB.) I rather spend money on something else for now...like more guns!
And yeah, i am growing paranoid as i get older.... CT200 has a more modern hybrid powertrain because it uses 2010 Toyota Prius powertrain. HS uses a powertrain from 2007 or so Camry Hybrid (whatever year TCH came out). That is the difference. You can search for Prius powertrain and read it. Bottom line, 3 years of development is a lot for hybrid technology.
05-06-10, 07:37 AM
#19
IMO Toyota could produce a 70MPG car right now no doubts. It just the way they want it to be. In two years they gonna introduce for eg a 45MPG, 2-3 years later 50MPG and so on and so on... That way they'll keep money coming in; they'll make more profit in a long time cycle.
Even right now (or even before HS came out), Ford Fusion/Milan Hybrid is already touching 40 mpg mark for a sedan. And the FFH is pretty sporty too (for a hybrid). Lincoln is coming out with its own hybrid based on FFH.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Hoovey689
Car Chat
31
12-14-13 08:55 AM
