Sigh - no folding seats

w@ntonsoup · 11-03-09, 06:50 AM

This is a deal killer for me. I've got an Audi A3 and a Lexus RX 400h, and we're thinking of trading in the Audi for the HS 250h. But alas, someone at Lexus thought it a bad idea to include such a basic feature as folding rear seats, so we're going to have to find something else.

Why am I making such a big deal of this? Folding rear seats mean you can purchase nearly anything at Home Depot and actually bring it home without strapping it to the roof (or swapping for the SUV). It increases a vehicle's utility twentyfold. I once moved in nothing but a 2-door Acura Integra. Folding seats convert a small coupe into a minivan.

So, hopefully they'll bring it about as a mid-cycle revision.

oldcajun · 11-03-09, 09:41 AM

This is the issue with hybrid sedans. The battery pack fills the forward part of the trunk so seats can't be foldable. The Camry, Fusion, and Milan hybrids all have the same issue. The Prius being designed from scratch to be a hybrid has the batteries underneath so is a hatch with the folding seat option.

Most luxury cars do not have folding rear seats because that provision reduces torsional stiffness and increases cabin noise because the opening to the trunk is not as well sealed.
Steve

w@ntonsoup · 11-03-09, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldcajun

The Prius being designed from scratch to be a hybrid has the batteries underneath so is a hatch with the folding seat option

The HS 250h was also designed from scratch to be a hybrid

This is a major design flaw IMHO and someone else near us in the showroom overheard us and shook their head in awe as well.

Argelius · 11-03-09, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w@ntonsoup

The HS 250h was also designed from scratch to be a hybrid

This is a major design flaw IMHO and someone else near us in the showroom overheard us and shook their head in awe as well.

Actually, I'm not sure this is true (despite what the Lexus marketers might want to you to believe). It is based on the Toyota Avensis

w@ntonsoup · 11-03-09, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argelius

Actually, I'm not sure this is true (despite what the Lexus marketers might want to you to believe). It is based on the Toyota Avensis

The Avensis was all-new for 2009, and obviously developed hand-in-hand with Lexus for this model. (It also serves as the basis of the Scion tC, which ironically enough has folding rear seats!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by encore888

I think it would be good for a Lexus sedan to have folding seats, but IIRC, the IS, HS, ES, GS, LS all do not have fold-down rear seats, only a trunk pass through for the center armrest, where applicable.

If the HS 250h had even a passthrough I could possibly accept the sacrifice. But alas, it doesn't.

TRDFantasy · 11-04-09, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w@ntonsoup

The HS 250h was also designed from scratch to be a hybrid

This is a major design flaw IMHO and someone else near us in the showroom overheard us and shook their head in awe as well.

It's not a "flaw", it's a compromise. If Lexus engineered the seats to fold down in the HS, something else would have to be compromised. With folding rear seats, either the car's height would be different, the rear suspension would be compromised, or interior room would be smaller. That, or trunk capacity would be vastly reduced. Take your pick.

w@ntonsoup · 11-04-09, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg0723

if you have a rx400 you dont need the HS seats to fold. why not just use your rx to haul things?

Might as well buy a one-seater Formula 1 car then, since I the RX has extra seats, too

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRDFantasy

It's not a "flaw", it's a compromise. If Lexus engineered the seats to fold down in the HS, something else would have to be compromised. With folding rear seats, either the car's height would be different, the rear suspension would be compromised, or interior room would be smaller. That, or trunk capacity would be vastly reduced. Take your pick.

Hooey I tells ya. I've owned probably ten cars with folding seats. There are no compromises in interior room or trunk capacity - it's just a hinge at the bottom of the seatback.

oldcajun · 11-04-09, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w@ntonsoup

Hooey I tells ya. I've owned probably ten cars with folding seats. There are no compromises in interior room or trunk capacity - it's just a hinge at the bottom of the seatback.

If you hinge the seat, where are you going to put the battery pack. There is no room under the car for a pack this size without compromising something.
The other compromise that would concern me is the loss of body stiffness and the additional noise from the trunk area.

This is not a design flaw, it is just a decision that the Lexus engineers made.

Steve

encore888 · 11-03-09, 11:57 AM

I think it would be good for a Lexus sedan to have folding seats, but IIRC, the IS, HS, ES, GS, LS all do not have fold-down rear seats, only a trunk pass through for the center armrest, where applicable.

greg0723 · 11-04-09, 11:12 AM

if you have a rx400 you dont need the HS seats to fold. why not just use your rx to haul things?

tromly · 11-04-09, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg0723

if you have a rx400 you dont need the HS seats to fold. why not just use your rx to haul things?

+1, that's what I was thinking, I have an RX for hauling things, an SC430 for cruising

(Cj) · 11-04-09, 05:58 PM

Maybe you should wait for the LF-Ch

Haha, but that vehicles is a few years away. In my opinion the HS250h shouldn't have been a sedan for of the same reason you cited. Hybrid sedans are not practical and have compromises (since the battery sits between the trunk and the back seat). But conversely I am glad the HS wasn't just a Lexusafied Prius. Building it from the ground up as a hybrid should have given it the benefit of a unique form factor specifically suited for it's purpose.

Something distinctive would have been nice. I'm thinking something more or less similar to what Tesla did with the Model S.

The look of a sedan with the practicality of a hatch (the model S supposedly seats 7 too lol).

w@ntonsoup · 11-05-09, 09:36 AM

Sorry, we're not going to agree on this one. When a car is being designed, they make a list of requirements and the engineers work them all in. 4 doors. 4 seats. a trunk. 4 wheels. ability to fit a 6 foot human. They simply elected not to put "folding rear seats" on that list. End of discussion. And, sadly, it's probably a deal-breaker for me in my purchasing decision.

ffpowerLN · 11-05-09, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w@ntonsoup

Sorry, we're not going to agree on this one. When a car is being designed, they make a list of requirements and the engineers work them all in. 4 doors. 4 seats. a trunk. 4 wheels. ability to fit a 6 foot human.

Yeah, you also missed the most important requirements...

MAKE IT A SEDAN

RXSF · 11-05-09, 01:41 PM

^^ lol thank you FFPower