hmong337

Doing a search I ran into this thread:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/hs-...concerned.html

But all in that thread never sat flush with me.

Forget what the morons at Lexus say, but you guys better get on changing your CVT fluid now!

My wife purchased a second hand HS this past summer and I did all the required maintenance on the car. I'm a huge advocate of taking preventative measures and all my cars are taken care off very well. The only thing I didn't touch was the gearbox fluid as "supposedly" it doesn't require changing. What a load of horse****! Her HS nearly has 90,000kms on it.

I have always been a firm believer of "if it's a fluid, it'll eventually need changing". I wasn't buying the crap from Lexus saying it doesn't need changing because it's a " sealed unit". These guys are in total lala land to believe such bull. If it was a sealed unit, then why the hell does it have drain and fill holes on the casing?! ...SMH.

The transmission should be treated periodically just like how a motor gets serviced periodically. How can anybody neglect such a vital part of the powertrain?! With the intricicies of this CVT and probably like $8000 to replace it, if anything you should be changing the fluids generously.

I wish I would've gotten photos but when we drained the CVT, it was absolutely nasty! I couldn't even believe that Lexus would say to not change it. Stock fresh fluids are a ruby red color. What came out was like dark filthy purple. Way overdue! Thanks Lexus.

Well, we filled it back up with the correct 4.3L of Toyota Automatic WS transmission fluid and all is well. I plan to change it every 60,000kms. That should be a good number. Besides, it was only $63. This is like a $45,000 Lexus when new. Wouldn't you want to hedge your bets? If you're too cheap to change the $63 CVT fluid every few years then I honestly don't know what you're gonna do when you're gonna need the transmission replaced.

Sometimes, don't always believe what you're being told is the truth.

Here is what pushed me to getting this fluid change done even though it wasn't recommended by Lexus. Not changing the cvt just never sat well with me. I used this video of a Camry Hybrid (pretty much the same car) as reference. Briansmobile is a smart dude. I would follow his recommendations.


Hope this helps.

colenzae

Thanks Lexus is right. Why in the blue %?ck would they flat out lie to a customer??? I've asked this question at several dealerships, both Toyota and Lexus and always got the "it's a sealed unit" answer. If I have issues with my tranny because I was misinformed and am going to rip someones freakin head off.
Thanks very much for the info hmong337

TheAirman

Good advice, and thanks for the good video. I plan on changing mine also, along with the brake fluid which I recommend changing.

The white pressure fill jug he made gave me some good ideas. Looks like it works much easier than my pump gun.

In the manual it says to put the engine in "inspection mode" I'll have to search what that is.

Did you have any warning lights or check engine lights after you did your service?

colenzae

So now my HS has almost 160K. I want to change the trans fluid but my local repair shop is advising against it because its been going sooooooo long without a change. His take is that the trans is now "used to" running with all the accumulated debris in it and that draining it out and adding fresh fluid would cause problems.
I spoke to another old veteran who says that since this is a CVT, it doesn't accumulate the fine metal shavings and other particles that a conventional transmission does because it doesn't have the cluches and other moving parts.
What should I do???? Have other HS owners changed their trans fluid at high mileage and had no issues?????
Confused.......my gut tells me to change it......

01LEXPL

iTrader: (10)

It's nothing to get angry over OP. Lexus states that since the average life span for their cars is the length of a lease/financing term, which will be up to 5yrs [typically], from Lexus. So within those 5yrs, never changing the fluid won't exactly run into problems. It's the second & third owners that may see the adverse affects of this methodology when they get a car with 150k and never seen a fluid change.

Just change it. Many will, many won't. It is what it is. There's audi's out from 1998 that run just fine on the same principle of fluid. And it's not a CVT.

It depends on the user of the car, and how they use it. I'm not saying it shouldn't ever be changed, but its not "necessary" within that 4-5yr average time frame of the average driver/owner.

A drain & fill isn't going to empty out all of the old fluid, so it will still be a mixture of some old with mostly new fluid. It will be fine.

And if you're still uneasy, drain a little bit and replace that little bit, instead of the 4.3L, drain 2L or so and reinstall the drain plug. Then repeat the process a month later; or drain it all a month later, and run the mostly-new stuff, like in method 1 above.

There's many ways to go about it. Personally, I'd go about the first way and not think twice.

LeX2K

On a Toyota CVT it will, there is no torque converter so 99% of the fluid will come out when drained. Also the transmission doesn't contain any clutch packs, this is the main reason some people say don't replace fluid in a transmission that has been neglected for a long time. Doing so will remove some of the clutch material contained in the fluid and the transmission may not shift properly anymore. I personally have never seen this happen but that is the rationale behind, "don't flush fluid on an old automatic".

Mechanically the hybrid CVTs Toyota/Lexus uses are very simple doing a drain/fill is essentially the same as replacing fluid in a manual transmission.

Clutchless

If you follow the folks at Prius Chat, it has the same design tranny, they recommend doing the first change at 30,000 miles. It is as easy as changing your oil. Just be sure to open the fill plug first so you know you can refill it after you drain it, and to allow for air to enter so it drains faster. You can get the plug washers on eBay or the Toyota dealer. Just search Toyota transmission drain washers. They are larger than the oil plug washers. You need 2, for the drain and fill plugs.
You do not have to put it in inspection mode or any of that nonsense. Just shut off the car, jack it up and do it. Afterward make a note of it in the owners/maintenance manual.
Just watched the video. I have done this on my old CT200h and I have a fluid pump that fits a quart bottle then added some extension hose and pumped each quart into the trans. It does not take long. These cost $6 at any auto parts store or WM. When fluid runs out the drain hole, you are done. In the alternative you could probably run a hose up above the engine to a funnel and pour in fluid from above. You do not need to buy an air compressor to do this job! See this how to with photos http://www.greenhybrid.com/forums/f4...-change-26791/


Colenzae - Go ahead and change your transmission fluid.

TheAirman

First:
Wow !! You got 160K on your HS? We have to come back to you later on how it holding up. Must be some sort of record there !!

Second:
This whole "don't change old transmission fluid" is something I've heard since I was a little shaver and didn't even have a drivers license. It's been an old "wives tale" ever since I can remember, and has been the source of heated debates with car nuts all through my life.

I think this tale came from someones Grandpa back in the 40's when auto transmissions first came out. Someone must have changed some old fluid out with new stuff, and when the new stuff went flowing through, it must have dislodged some gunk and clogged up a passage on the old type transmission. And the tale has grown ever since.

There use to be the same dire talk about the rear end on old rear wheel drive American cars. Most had no drain plug, so they weren't meant to be changed. So they say. I even had a guy who "owned a service station all his life" tell me he doesn't advise a brake fluid change because the lines and cylinders are used to "old" fluid and new stuff will just leak out. And besides that, if they wanted you to change it, they would have put a drain plug in the master cylinder.

At 160k, just change it !! Think about it. It's a mechanical device that requires a fluid for its operation. The cleaner and fresher the fluid, the better and longer it'll operate. And at 160K, you should have changed every fluid in that car by now.

TheAirman

Great post. Thanks!!

And to add, I made one of those fill jugs he showed in the video. It works like a champ !!!

I found a 1.3 gallon clear Windex jug in my recycle bin that I got at Costco some time back. It take a long time to go through 1.3 gallons of Windex.

I just drilled a simple hole in the handle that fits my blow gun end. Next I found a 2 foot section of clear rubber hose. Then I just cut a hole in the lid with my Dremel and a razor knife. Total time, about 5 minutes.

It work almost too good. When I tried it with water for the first time, it shot the water almost 5 feet in the air. So you really have to watch how much air you let out of the blow gun !!

Now I have no excuse not to change that tranny fluid.

colenzae

Anyone out there (besides me) have an HS with high miles (like over 150k) that is running the car on the original trans fluid??? We are the second owner of this car, bought it with 70K and we now have 158K so its likely that we are running on the original fluid. 90% highway miles but this still makes me upset that it hasn't been changed.
I agree that not changing the fluid at high miles just because its never been changed seems like nonsense to me. I did look into this as soon as we bought the car and believed what Lexus told me.
Live and learn. Im changing it this week.........

Magellan55

I posted on the other thread as well, but to summarize, go ahead and change it if you want, but there's really no rush. The Prius has been sporting a sealed CVT for 14 years now, and has a pristine transmission reliability record according to Consumer Reports surveys of owners. So there are plenty of these trannies out there with way more than 150k on them running no problem on the original fluid. It's more like a rear diff or a manual tranny than an auto tranny, so if you feel you must change it, 100k is probably a good interval, or even 60k if you must. But 30k is like changing your engine oil at 3k when the manual says 10k - a bit overkill but some still do it

Just putting a little balance to this thread, which felt a bit overhyped. While there are plenty of enthusiasts here, there are also owners that are just looking for good advice, and I don't think it's fair to scare someone when there's no evidence to back it up - just assumptions of gloom and doom.

And no this isn't an evil conspiracy by Lexus and it's dealers to sell us new trannies either There's plenty of other evidence they like their reputation for reliability too much and would rather take our money through preventive maintenance.

hmong337

Look, it's your car. Not mine. I just like to be on top of maintenance and take any sort of preventative measures to ensure my car will not have big problems in the future. Fluid is fluid is fluid. It gets dirty and loses it's lubricating properties with use and over time. I will stick to being safe than sorry and just change the cvt fluid. It's $33 for the fluid and I gave my friend $30 to help me change it at his shop. Are you really not going to change it? I was appauled at how dirty the old stuff that came out was and this was around 88,000kms. I still can't believe we are told not to change it. I'm not an idiot and something definitely is wrong with that picture.

There is nothing special to changing the fluid. Like others of mentioned, it'd literally like changing fluid on manual gearbox. No lights to reset or nothing. Just drain and fill. Easy as that.

I did add to the maintenance log to change it in 3 years or 60,000kms.

LeX2K

You're being smart about it. The cost is very minimal, the risk is basically zero. The risk is far greater if you don't change fluid and assume that for some impossible reason oil doesn't wear out and break down in a CVT.

Clutchless

It is not a CVT. It is more like a manual gearbox. It actually has a single gear and some electric motors etc inside to adjust things. No belt sliding on cones like in a CVT. No clutch packs to wear. Still stuff wears and leaves debris. I think the initial ATF change is most important and most wear occurs in the first 20,000 miles or so.

LeX2K

By the actual definition it is a CVT, more specifically eCVT. Just because it doesn't have a chain etc. like some variable units doesn't make any less a continuously variable transmission. The dual electric motors are responsible for the drive ratio as well as forward and reverse. The Toyota units have relatively few components but it could be argued that there is more stress and wear on said components because the lack of mechanisms for each gear. Here's a great video on what is actually inside a Toyota hybrid unit.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLNDGUISTYM