ntrainer

I'm definitely not suffering buyers' remorse -- love our HS -- but have been reading so much about how much better the CT is for the "luxury hybrid" buyer, and just don't understand that mentality. Maybe some of you can explain it... We were looking for a luxury hybrid, to be sure, but didn't consider the CT any longer than it took to sit in that back seat and figure out that even our 7-year-old daughter was cramped. (No, she's not an Amazonian child, either.) Initially we might have considered the ES, but the combination of almost TOO much leg room (don't need to haul around more than necessary when commuting), and the lousy gas mileage did in the ES, for us anyway. And the IS is truly a non-starter in terms of back seat room.

I understand the idea that the CT would appeal to a younger buyer -- without kids, or anyone else who might need to be "hauled" in the back seat, but who might want larger trunk space. But I don't consider that buyer to be the same as the HS buyer. Am I delusional? Did any of you test-drive or consider BOTH the HS and the CT?

DDS62

The form factor for the HS is very good IMO. @185"lg and 59.1/2" high. There is room for adults in the rear seats and entry/exit is excellent. The CT is to small for me all the way around and the ES is too long and to low. The ideal car form factor IMO is 188" lg, 60" high and 72" wide. I almost took a test drive in an ES with a roof line of 56", but stopped short after I fell into the seat and then had a hard time getting out without grabbing onto the pillars. But everybody has their own value system for those things, and it would appear that mine are in the minority.

There has been a lot of discussion why the sales of the HS dropped to almost zero, I doubt the CT had much to do with it since it is in an entirely different class.

JayGoldste

At the time I traded in my '06 Prius on the HS in January, 2011, Lexus was advertising the new CT. Although I was curious about the CT, what got me into the dealership was the $5000 rebate Lexus was offering on the HS250h. The dealership also offered an additional discount on the HS demo I test drove.

I did ask when the CT would be arriving. The salesperson said that they had ordered some but that he did not have an ETA. Recalling the adage that an HS in the hand is worth two CTs in the bush, I decided to to purchase the HS demo at a considerable savings rather than waiting to see what the CT was like.

I since have been able to check out a CT in the showroom. I liked the fact that it is a hatchback (I wish the HS had folding rear seats, or at least a pass-through from the trunk). Otherwise, I didn't find anything about the CT that made me regret my decision to get the HS.

noku

There was a CT in the showroom which was not for sale which I had initially wanted to see. I opened the back and saw little room, looked at the backseat and didn't even attempt to sit down. I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get out without the help of the fire department. Told my salesman "next.....". Liked the HS more than a Camry, got a good deal on a courtesy car, and the rest is history.

RJQMAN

I agree that the CT has a different target market. It is small, cramped for the passengers, and over-hyped in my view, just as the HS was under-hyped. I would not want one personally - just too small and too boxy for my taste. Now the new sports Lexus is a different story - looks great to me. Hope they do a hybrid version of that with the HS features in a couple of years - I just might trade in my two HS's if they did.

ntrainer

I wonder why the HS is so "underhyped," as you put it, RJQMAN. I guess I can see (online) how some people felt the CT was a "better" Lexus hybrid than the HS. (Better styling; better gas mileage.) But that comparison is so odd to me, as it seems odd to most of you who've responded to this thread. People don't go into a showroom just wanting a hybrid; they want much more than that from their car, and the details matter. I understand there were some recall issues on the 2010 model -- almost to be expected in an introductory year, to be fair -- and then the tsunami hit, making production quite difficult in 2011. But clearly Lexus decided that they were making a 2012 HS. If you're already tooled your production line to make a vehicle, why wouldn't you do everything possible to make it a success?

In our case, this car literally sold itself to us. We were test-driving sedans, and came to Lexus to drive the ES. Drove great, but we felt it was a just a bit too large for our (commuter car) needs, and the IS was a total non-starter, in terms of having no back seat. Test-drove the Prius, but didn't like how under-powered it was, and hated the idea of dealing with Toyota for servicing the car. We were leaning toward the Infiniti G, when I went back to Lexus' web site on a lark and noticed they had quite a few hybrids -- some even priced in the "entry level" category, and which seemed to have enough room in the back seat to transport (gasp!) HUMANS. WITH LEGS. Back to a (different) Lexus dealership to test-drive the HS.

Seriously... given the fact that we're so happy with this car, how is it that during our first visit at Lexus no one even mentioned it to us? It certainly wasn't in the showroom (of the first dealership), which perhaps tells you how uninterested that dealership is in selling it. But why????

DDS62

I continue my rant that it was Lexus that killed this car, not demand. Call me crazy, but this car is just to good to not sell even 2000 cars a year. I will repeat my claim that if the Lexus dealerships around the country could find 2001 Pintos (likely one of the worst cars ever produced) they could sell all of them within a year. But they can't sell 2001 HS's? Go figure.

RJQMAN

ntrainer, I am not certain if they are really trying to sell the 2012 or just use up inventory of parts and pieces for left-hand drive cars. I tried in vain to buy one fully equipped, and was told by several dealers that they simply could not get one. A dealer that I greatly respect in Dallas told me that they were informed that once the initial shipments were complete, that was the end of it. That is would be out of their lineup by the end of the 1st quarter for the US and Canadian markets, but that right-hand drive versions would still be made to sell elsewhere (I assume that is Japan). I agree with DDS62 - it was Lexus that either intentionally or by poor marketing killed the product. And I further stand by my belief that if the car was 3-4 inches longer (added to the trunk) and perhaps 1 inch lower, they would have sold a lot more. And I agree with JayGoldste that it would have been nice to have a pass-thru to the trunk. And yes, I have driven both the HS and the CT. The CT was cramped and felt like a miniature 1950's station wagon to me. I do not find the styling of the CT appealing at all - but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To me the push about the styling superiority of the CT is just hype. But then again, what do I know?

richrf

No question the small trunk is going to turn off lots of potential buyers. Also, it is true that the salesperson I dealt with reluctantly showed me the HS 250H as a last gasp to get me to buy a car ... and I did.

I think the biggest problem with the 250H is that it really doesn't feel like a luxury car and feels and rides more like an upscale Toyota. The price reflects this difference, but the market may be smaller than Lexus suspected. Plus, the early recalls of the 2010 model (my model) certainly didn't help, just as Lexus was trying to ramp up sales. All, in all, good intentions with poor execution. BTW, the Lexus brand across the board has suffered where I live because it just doesn't seem to have the luxury feel it once had. BMW is unfortunately getting the spill off. Unfortunately because the basic car is great but maintenance and service where I live is quite poor.

LexFather

Its clear Lexus put tons more effort into the CT vs the HS. The CT has been a hit in every country it is sold. The HS sells well in Japan but not here and isn't sold in Europe.

The two cars are completely different and the size difference is too great to compare them. It seems there are more people interested in a sporty 30-40k 42 MPG hatch then a 37-47k sedan when Lexus already has multiple cars in that price range.

I'll be honest that the styling and price didn't help the HS at all. Our families HS had a MSRP of 45k and still doesn't have ML or LED lights, damn near a 50k car loaded. It seems that Lexus also did a poor job with advertising and marketing for the HS. When we show people all the features they are amazed at it, nothing else in this price range has all these features.

The other weird thing is the HS touring model that drives sportier and looks slightly sportier. It was never reviewed, I've yet to see one and its like it doesn't exist. Why the heck would Lexus even offer it and put no effort into selling it.

I8ABMR

I think the HS was priced a bit high imho. The CT has a more sporty look and may even offer a bit more utility with the hatchback.

jbripps

looked at a CT last week. It is NOTHING like an HS. Totally different cars. I would think the 200 is targeted for a younger demo without kids....just my 2 cents. If you have kids, even if they are small, you will outgrow at CT very quickly. Can't see adults being comfortable back there either. I still think it's a very good looking and extremely practical car, but they HS and CT really can't be compared. It's like comparing a civic to an avalon as far as size.

LexFather

This. When we purchased one in the family, the MSRP was 45k and still missing LEDs and ML which was pretty much special order. So we are talking 48k for a loaded HS. I'm sorry there is no value there. While we paid under invoice it still didn't leave me with a "OMG A STEAL" feeling even though the HS has features my GS does not have in spades.

I really had no idea how expensive it was.

MR_F1

I might sound like a broken record, but the HS should have been an ESh all along.

ntrainer

Yeah... I think lots of people agree that an ESh would have been a more successful car. I'm guessing there are engineering reasons Lexus didn't go that way. We test drove the ES and my comment was, "Well, there's nothin' wrong with that car," but my better half basically thought the car had too much room. For us, this is a commuting car 90% of the time, and though we want to be able to pile our kids in back, it would make no sense to buy a huge vehicle just for that 10% of the time when we'll want to haul people in back. As I've described elsewhere on this forum, we were very close to buying an Infiniti G before the lousy mileage made me take a look at the "hybrids" tab on the Lexus web site (since we'd enjoyed the ES so much) and I noticed they had this car called the HS which no one at the dealership we'd visited even mentioned.

In short, I wonder if the ES is simply too big and too heavy to make into a hybrid with meaningfully high mpg's.

We felt the ES was "too much car" for our needs, and the HS was "just right." Clearly, though, most Americans don't mind hauling around excess capacity most of the time. Hence: the single-driver Hummers and SUVs that clutter our highways all day long. So I would think that if Lexus COULD have made an ESh, they would have.