Thoughts (quasi-review) of the HS
05-08-10, 12:43 AM
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Thoughts (quasi-review) of the HS
A few months before the lease on my Acura TL was coming up for renewal, and I started thinking about what to replace it with. A new Acura was out of the question; although I enjoyed the performance, quality and reliability of my TL, none of the current models suited me. The new TL has an impressive spec sheet, but I just can't get over that rear end. Plus I had two terrible purchasing experiences at an Acura dealership, and I felt like I received no comfort from the Acura home office in redressing my issues. So, as a matter of principal, that was out, despite being a long-time Acura owner.
Relatively early on, I decided I wanted to get a hybrid. (Well, I really wanted to hold out for the Volt, but as I said, my lease was coming due.) I find the technology appealing, and it's important to me to minimize my impact on the environment where possible. So after looking over current options, it came down to the HS, the Prius and the Ford Fusion.
I had read many extremely positive reviews of the Fusion, and I was eager to have a viable American prospect. And I went to drive one and while it seemed technically competent, I knew more or less immediately it was not for me. It felt cavernous inside (not in a good way), drove like an oil tanker, and the interior, while decent overall, had too many cheap and/or outright gaudy bits to it. Take a look at the interior door handles sometime and you'll see what I mean.
So, no Fusion. I next went to look at the Prius. What can I say, it was a Prius. Everyone here probably knows what that entails. I probably would have bought one of those except there was a single Prius V in my region, and it would have wound up costing not that much less than the Lexus. And to be perfectly honest, there was some baggage there I wasn't comfortable carrying. Sure, I may be a Mac-using, Obama-voting envirodork, but why give people an excuse to jump to that conclusion?
So, the Lexus. Let me talk about the bad first.
There are some baffling omissions. I never thought, for example, that I would again own a car without xenon headlights, much less a $45k car without them; sure, LED would have been a fine substitute, but not $1800 fine. The center console storage areas feel stingily unfinished; the placement of the USB/AUX ports is unfathomable. iPod integration is mediocre at best, and the satellite radio interface makes it frustratingly hard to see both the title of the song playing and which station/preset you're on.
I was also surprised at the areas where technology had not advanced from my 2007 Acura; voice recognition seems scarcely improved, if not worse, and I was surprised that the CD player was not also capable of playing audio DVDs (like the Acura was capable of doing). And what's with the big blank area in the center of the center stack? Did they decide to exclude the tape deck at the last second?
There are probably a half-dozen little nits like this that I'm convinced would have been solved if the designers and engineers had just driven the damn car. And since I'm pretty sure getting the designers and engineers to drive the damn car is a big part of the Toyota Way, well, maybe they should have gotten someone else to drive it; these annoyance could have been fixed at minimal cost.
But that said, I freaking love this car. I'm not a big car guy; I enjoy driving a sporty German coupe as much as the next guy, but at the end of the day, I want a comfortable, advanced, well-finished and reasonably performant device to take me from point A to point B. So take this all for what it's worth (and maybe this sheds some light on the types of flaws I identified) but I couldn't have asked for a nicer car than the HS.
Sitting in the driver's seat feels like you're piloting the space shuttle (except more modern). Remote Touch works shockingly well, though I do wish they had provided some more hard keys, if only for radio presets. The leather seats are so absurdly comfortable -- the perfect blend of comfort and support.
This review to be continued...
Relatively early on, I decided I wanted to get a hybrid. (Well, I really wanted to hold out for the Volt, but as I said, my lease was coming due.) I find the technology appealing, and it's important to me to minimize my impact on the environment where possible. So after looking over current options, it came down to the HS, the Prius and the Ford Fusion.
I had read many extremely positive reviews of the Fusion, and I was eager to have a viable American prospect. And I went to drive one and while it seemed technically competent, I knew more or less immediately it was not for me. It felt cavernous inside (not in a good way), drove like an oil tanker, and the interior, while decent overall, had too many cheap and/or outright gaudy bits to it. Take a look at the interior door handles sometime and you'll see what I mean.
So, no Fusion. I next went to look at the Prius. What can I say, it was a Prius. Everyone here probably knows what that entails. I probably would have bought one of those except there was a single Prius V in my region, and it would have wound up costing not that much less than the Lexus. And to be perfectly honest, there was some baggage there I wasn't comfortable carrying. Sure, I may be a Mac-using, Obama-voting envirodork, but why give people an excuse to jump to that conclusion?
So, the Lexus. Let me talk about the bad first.
There are some baffling omissions. I never thought, for example, that I would again own a car without xenon headlights, much less a $45k car without them; sure, LED would have been a fine substitute, but not $1800 fine. The center console storage areas feel stingily unfinished; the placement of the USB/AUX ports is unfathomable. iPod integration is mediocre at best, and the satellite radio interface makes it frustratingly hard to see both the title of the song playing and which station/preset you're on.
I was also surprised at the areas where technology had not advanced from my 2007 Acura; voice recognition seems scarcely improved, if not worse, and I was surprised that the CD player was not also capable of playing audio DVDs (like the Acura was capable of doing). And what's with the big blank area in the center of the center stack? Did they decide to exclude the tape deck at the last second?
There are probably a half-dozen little nits like this that I'm convinced would have been solved if the designers and engineers had just driven the damn car. And since I'm pretty sure getting the designers and engineers to drive the damn car is a big part of the Toyota Way, well, maybe they should have gotten someone else to drive it; these annoyance could have been fixed at minimal cost.
But that said, I freaking love this car. I'm not a big car guy; I enjoy driving a sporty German coupe as much as the next guy, but at the end of the day, I want a comfortable, advanced, well-finished and reasonably performant device to take me from point A to point B. So take this all for what it's worth (and maybe this sheds some light on the types of flaws I identified) but I couldn't have asked for a nicer car than the HS.
Sitting in the driver's seat feels like you're piloting the space shuttle (except more modern). Remote Touch works shockingly well, though I do wish they had provided some more hard keys, if only for radio presets. The leather seats are so absurdly comfortable -- the perfect blend of comfort and support.
This review to be continued...
05-08-10, 05:37 AM
#2
Glad you like it! Yes, you'll see similar complaints in other threads about basic "car" issues, as if they had computer geeks design it and left the car guys at home. My advice is to take it home for a day, and see how it works for you in your commute, while paying attention to the little stuff. But if you're not looking for a driver's car, the HS is IMO the best blend of luxury, reliability, style, and mpg, with just enough pseudo-sport sedan thrown in for fun.
FWIW, I own the non-Nav version, and find the center stack controls first rate. Plenty of buttons for radio presets, HVAC controls, etc, and right at your fingertips when you rest your elbow on the armrest. But you do lose the mouse thingy.
FWIW, I own the non-Nav version, and find the center stack controls first rate. Plenty of buttons for radio presets, HVAC controls, etc, and right at your fingertips when you rest your elbow on the armrest. But you do lose the mouse thingy.
05-08-10, 07:55 AM
#3
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Among other things, I share a few nits with you about the car. The bins should be lined, the car should come with xenons and the nav. versions should have redundant push buttons besides the presets on the screen. In addition, I think it is econo-box cheap to have blank button-less spaces where optional control buttons would be, on the left side of the driver's column. That said, I still like the car very much.
As for the TL, while a good car, I just can't get past that suited-armor look to it placing it high on the weirdness scale.
As for the TL, while a good car, I just can't get past that suited-armor look to it placing it high on the weirdness scale.
Last edited by Canesguy; 05-09-10 at 08:11 AM.
05-08-10, 02:45 PM
#4
Have you given the GS 450h a gander? It fits your needs pretty well: "I want a comfortable, advanced, well-finished and reasonably performant device to take me from point A to point B."
Comfortable? Check. Advanced/well-finished? Check. Reasonable performance? 0 to 60 in 5.2 seconds.
"After driving the GS 450h, we were impressed. This is a hybrid with oomph as well as the great engineering on which Lexus has built its name. Given the reputation behind the vehicle, does the 450h deliver on its promise? Yes on performance, yes on quiet, yes on high-end comfort and yes on all those green-friendly bonuses you expect of a hybrid."
AutomotiveRhythms.com
"I can't help wishing that the wonderful hybrid powertrain in this car had been tuned more toward the economy end of the spectrum since, let's face it, warp-speed acceleration isn't going to make the world a better place to live in. But Lexus is in the business of selling the 2007 GS 450h to its target market, and that group of buyers will be giddy with excitement over this remarkable car and the superior driving experience it offers." Edmunds.com
Comfortable? Check. Advanced/well-finished? Check. Reasonable performance? 0 to 60 in 5.2 seconds.
"After driving the GS 450h, we were impressed. This is a hybrid with oomph as well as the great engineering on which Lexus has built its name. Given the reputation behind the vehicle, does the 450h deliver on its promise? Yes on performance, yes on quiet, yes on high-end comfort and yes on all those green-friendly bonuses you expect of a hybrid."
AutomotiveRhythms.com
"I can't help wishing that the wonderful hybrid powertrain in this car had been tuned more toward the economy end of the spectrum since, let's face it, warp-speed acceleration isn't going to make the world a better place to live in. But Lexus is in the business of selling the 2007 GS 450h to its target market, and that group of buyers will be giddy with excitement over this remarkable car and the superior driving experience it offers." Edmunds.com
05-08-10, 06:13 PM
#5
I second carLx's advice. If you can afford the GS450h and are interested in a car with a bit stiffer chassis you'll love it. Tons of power, great handling (for a Lexus) and very comfortable. They are also much easier to find with ML audio than the HS. Very different cars though and if MPG is a major concern the GS might not be the answer. It is rated 22/25 but my lifetime average is 25.4 with about 60/40 or 70/30 city/highway driving.
It is also made to be in a different class than the HS which means semi-aniline leather, lots more wood.... But you still cannot go wrong with the HS as it, in my opinion, is a great car though a bit pricy for what it offers.
It is also made to be in a different class than the HS which means semi-aniline leather, lots more wood.... But you still cannot go wrong with the HS as it, in my opinion, is a great car though a bit pricy for what it offers.
05-08-10, 09:59 PM
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I'm still thinking about how to conclude my review -- I'm having trouble because, ultimately, there are about 1000 little things that bug me about the car, but overall I love it and I absolutely feel that it's the perfect car for me. I guess a better way to describe it would be that it generally feels so right and fits me so well, the little things that aren't quite right are all that much more apparent.
To respond to some of the specific comments in this thread:
I had never considered a GS because I always assumed that was out of my price range. I've always loved the looks of that car, which is exactly why I figured it was too rich for my blood. Looking now, it's not all that much more expensive than my HS, but it is probably a bit more than I wanted to spend. Plus it's a bit more car than I would have needed to be satisfied. So I think I came out at the right place, but that is certainly a vehicle I would love to own one of these days.
But this reminds me: I feel like the features of the technology package weren't quite worth the price of admission. The only one I feel is useful on a daily basis is the park assist package, and even that is of limited utility. (No assistance in parallel parking, and I don't need a parking system to tell me when I'm three feet and then one foot away from something; I need it to tell me when I'm 12 inches away and then six inches.) Further, if I could have picked certain features from the HS premium package, there are quite a few I wouldn't have wanted. But, I guess that's how the pricing game is played.
Bottom line, I guess I have a lot to say about this car, both how much I enjoy it and how many tiny little annoyances I uncover on a day to day basis. I will probably use this thread as an occasional forum to discuss those issues and, if anyone has any, to answer questions about my experience with the car. I still think it's a great car, but it's not for everyone.
To respond to some of the specific comments in this thread:
I had never considered a GS because I always assumed that was out of my price range. I've always loved the looks of that car, which is exactly why I figured it was too rich for my blood. Looking now, it's not all that much more expensive than my HS, but it is probably a bit more than I wanted to spend. Plus it's a bit more car than I would have needed to be satisfied. So I think I came out at the right place, but that is certainly a vehicle I would love to own one of these days.
But this reminds me: I feel like the features of the technology package weren't quite worth the price of admission. The only one I feel is useful on a daily basis is the park assist package, and even that is of limited utility. (No assistance in parallel parking, and I don't need a parking system to tell me when I'm three feet and then one foot away from something; I need it to tell me when I'm 12 inches away and then six inches.) Further, if I could have picked certain features from the HS premium package, there are quite a few I wouldn't have wanted. But, I guess that's how the pricing game is played.
Bottom line, I guess I have a lot to say about this car, both how much I enjoy it and how many tiny little annoyances I uncover on a day to day basis. I will probably use this thread as an occasional forum to discuss those issues and, if anyone has any, to answer questions about my experience with the car. I still think it's a great car, but it's not for everyone.
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05-09-10, 12:17 PM
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i agree with all the negatives on your review, about the aux location, the center stack design, etc etc.
to answer the space where you think a tape deck should be, HS's in Japan have another slot there for media that we americans dont get probably because we like our CDs and iPods. I cant find a great picture, but from this, you can see that there is a slot for something shaped like a cassette tape but bigger.
also, if you get the mark levinson audio, it can digest DVD audio and video
to answer the space where you think a tape deck should be, HS's in Japan have another slot there for media that we americans dont get probably because we like our CDs and iPods. I cant find a great picture, but from this, you can see that there is a slot for something shaped like a cassette tape but bigger.
also, if you get the mark levinson audio, it can digest DVD audio and video
05-10-10, 06:15 AM
#10
to answer the space where you think a tape deck should be, HS's in Japan have another slot there for media that we americans dont get probably because we like our CDs and iPods. I cant find a great picture, but from this, you can see that there is a slot for something shaped like a cassette tape but bigger.
I believe the JDM vehicles have minidisk players.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniDisc
I believe the JDM vehicles have minidisk players.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniDisc
05-10-10, 06:22 AM
#11
I, too, actually looked at the GS hybrid when I noticed the HS cost creeping up into the $50K territory, even though the GS hybrid is a bit pricier than what I want to spend. While it does have better quality interior materials and can be easily had with ML audio, the EPA fuel economy is astoundingly low for a hybrid. My ES350 handily beats it with a conventional ICE. While my main motivation for getting a hybrid is to get a high tech car, and better fuel economy is secondary, having a car that gets mpg in the low 20s won't suit me and my 100 mile daily commute.
05-10-10, 09:19 AM
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^^ but your ES doesnt have close to 340 horsepower, I believe 0-60 of 5.4 or something. The GS was built and designed during a time when lexus used hybrid power as a sort of turbo, ala LS600H. Now, they are starting to change that with the HS.
I agree that the HS gets pretty expensive, but with everything it tops out at 45K and that is with pre collision, LKA, and all the other tech goodies like the cameras. THe GS isnt even available with all these things (and has a weaker precollision system) and starts in the mid 50s.
I agree that the HS gets pretty expensive, but with everything it tops out at 45K and that is with pre collision, LKA, and all the other tech goodies like the cameras. THe GS isnt even available with all these things (and has a weaker precollision system) and starts in the mid 50s.
05-10-10, 12:01 PM
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Good review. 2010 GS 450h's are special order only so to get one now you would need to likely buy used.
Glad you like the HS, it is quirky but all cars have quirks. The center stack is odd but it gives a nice tall view of the road. It isn't for everyone at all.
As for technology the HS simply blows any Acura out the water, it really isn't close. As for the cameras the HS has nice large windows and it was easy for me to park.
Good luck!
Glad you like the HS, it is quirky but all cars have quirks. The center stack is odd but it gives a nice tall view of the road. It isn't for everyone at all.
As for technology the HS simply blows any Acura out the water, it really isn't close. As for the cameras the HS has nice large windows and it was easy for me to park.
Good luck!
05-10-10, 07:10 PM
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I have bought the car; I'm coming up on two weeks with it now. I 98% love it, and suspect I will be very happy with it the next several years, but there are some things about it which just baffle me. In all probability, it's just a matter of getting used to driving an entirely new make -- I've never had a Toyota/Lexus before. But I will say I don't think I've ever driven a car that I felt fits me so well, though. Sitting behind the wheel pulling on an expensive leather glove. I think this is why the tiny little omissions and/or obvious decontenting bothers me so much. It's soooo close to being perfect from my perspective.
RXSF, great picture, very informative. That weird blank space makes so much more sense now. Also, thanks for the info on the ML audio; that also makes sense. Like LED headlights, that's something that would be nice to have, but not $1800 (IMO). But, diff'rent strokes, right?
RXSF, great picture, very informative. That weird blank space makes so much more sense now. Also, thanks for the info on the ML audio; that also makes sense. Like LED headlights, that's something that would be nice to have, but not $1800 (IMO). But, diff'rent strokes, right?
05-11-10, 07:58 AM
#15
Congrats! I sort of feel the same way; I focused too much on whether I could live with the hybrid drive train and didn't spend enough time thinking about the little stuff when I had an overnight test drive. I can live with the car for now, but I'm not sure I'm the target audience for Lexus and I doubt I'll be buying another. But that all depends what's on the market in a few years - I'm hoping to go all-electric but we'll see what they actually deliver. One reason I'm in the HS now is I didn't find another car I liked better among the 2010's.