NoiseFree

After test driving a friend's Camry hybrid a couple of summers ago I was sold on getting a hybrid as my next car. I drive an ES350 currently.

My main reason for getting a hybrid would be to take advantage of the quiet ride when the gas engine kicks out.

Fast forward to today. I was at my Lexus dealer today and got to test drive the HS 250h base and next level up (17" and 18" wheels).

I was listening intently the whole time to the various noises as I drove.

My first big surprise was when the gas engine kicked in a second or two after starting the car. The salesman explained to me that this car had been sitting on the lot for several days and the battery needed to be charged.
He said if the car is driven regularly the gas engine won't kick in when you start the car. Is this true?

My next surprise was how often the engine was kicking in at speeds under 40 mph. My hope was to drive at 40 and under and basically use the battery engine. Again the salesman attributed this to the battery not being charged yet. Is this accurate?

I much prefered the 17" to the 18" because you could feel all the road bumps with the sport suspension.

However, while driving the 17" I started to hear a very annoying high-pitched whine that just wouldn't go away. At speeds over 50 mph or so the gas engine and road noise covered up this whine but at slower speeds it was clearly audible. The salesman admitted he also heard the whine.
I asked him what it was and he gave me some explanation which didn't stick in my head. I asked him if all of the 17" 250h's would have this whine and he said probably to some degree.

Deal-breaker for me.

Next I drove over to a Toyota dealer and test-drove a 2011 Camry hybrid.
It actually drove and felt as good as the 250h but cost 10K less!
I was listening closely for the high-pitched whine but couldn't really hear it.
If it was there, it was really faint.

I didn't like the gas engine kicking in as often as it did though.

Can someone here talk about the frequency of how/when the gas engine kicks in IN PRACTICE in hybrids?
Let's talk about cold starts, in summer, winter, driving for 5 minutes, more etc. etc.?
The only time I was really guaranteed the engine kicking out was when the car came to a stop at a light or stop sign. I was hoping for better than that.
So please educate me on what to expect with these hybrids, in practice, with the gas engine.

TIA

KGenaidy

Hello NoiseFree,

When the HS is "started" (or the Camry Hybrid) by pressing the power button ... it will always cycle through a period where the engine is running. If it the engine is cold (read coolant temp < 140 degrees) the gas engine will continue running to warm up. If the engine is warm ... it will run for a short period while the computers systems reset themselves to the appropriate "mode" to operate in.

In general hybrids operate in a manner to get to "optimum" operating conditions as soon as possible and the engine generating heat is one of the primary means to do this.

I happen to have the 18" tires ... and I don't recall having a whine in my vehicle. The 18"'s do provide a firmer ride ... but that is the trade off for going from a 55 to a 45 profile tire and the tires themselves being less able to act as shock absorbers.

I was traveling this week and had a Camry as a rental. It was much noisier then my HS is. I was very glad to get back into my vehicle ... it made me realize just how "spoiled" I've become.

I have been driving hybrids for about 1 1/2 years. When I went through the purchase process of my first one ... I remember thinking it would be no big deal to get good fuel efficiency in a hybrid. I soon realized that my driving habits would need to change to get the most out of hybrids.

Magellan55

All current hybrids have the engine running most of the time in normal driving - their battery packs just aren't big enough to go very far or very fast. Sounds like what you want is a plug-in hybrid like the Chevy Volt, which is designed to go 40 miles or whatever on battery alone. Those have much bigger battery packs. Or go all-electric, like the Tesla.

As for noise, I don't notice much in mine. It whines a bit on braking, but that's the generator recharging the battery. The 18's do give a jittery ride IMO, but I'm getting used to it, and they allow for spirited cornering. It does get irritatingly loud, however, under full throttle - IMO the 4 banger just doesn't sound good at high rpm. So I drive mine under 8/10's, and I'm satisfied.

NoiseFree

Thanks I didn't know this. The Lexus salesman implied that had the car not been sitting on the lot for a few days, not driven, the engine wouldn't run on startup.

I didn't notice the high-pitched whine in the 18" either, only the 17".
Yes there is a trade-off with the 18" for sure. I did enjoy the handling better with this vehicle than with the 17" (I used to have a Honda Accord, similar feel) but you get the additional road noise.

Was that a regular Camry that you drove or the Camry hybrid?
I ask because I didn't notice much difference between the Camry hybrid and the HS, noise-wise. I'll tell you, I too was glad to get back to my vehicle as well (ES-350). There were many sounds going on with the HS. My ES-350 is fairly quiet and smooth, most of the time.

NoiseFree

Thanks Mag. I obviously didn't test drive my friend's hybrid long enough to learn about all of its sounds.
Yeah, unless the hybrids change quite a bit in the noise-management department, I'll probably gravitate to the electrics if they become more practical.

I heard the engine downshifting on breaking, which is OK. The whine I was referring to in the 17" was distinctly different though.
Incidentally, the ES-350 downshifts very smoothly and silently on breaking.
What I like to do is coast to a stop via downshifting (not braking) whenever I have a chance. It's really cool.
I didn't try full throttle when I test drove so I don't know what it sounds like.
I never full throttle any of my vehicles.

KGenaidy

It was a regular Camry.

Yes ... the HS has it's own symphony of sounds that take a little while to get used to. My wife has an ES350 also. I actually think that the HS is slightly quieter than the ES. But ... the ES has the ML sound system and is the car of choice for our family trips.

herbvdh

The whine you heard was the electric motor/generator that is audible sometimes.

As for total electric I test drove the Tesla Roadster 236 miles a charge 0-60 in 3.7 I spoke to them about a Model S $50,000 sedan I was given a delivery date of May 2012.

NoiseFree

Yeah the "electric motor/generator" sounds familiar. I think that's what the salesman had said.
I don't know if I'll be driving them soon again to compare, but when the 18" was first up, I didn't pick up on that high-pitched whine. I only noticed it with the 17" model.

That Tesla sure sounds appealing to me! Did you order one or was just curious?

Magellan55

The Tesla roadster is $110k+, and is basically a Lotus Elise with an electric motor. The S sedan will be slower, 5.6 second 0-60, but larger, and comes in three range variants depending how many batteries you order, topping out at 300 miles. Base price is $57,500 for the shorter range model (160 miles), but the $7500 government rebate brings it down to $50K. Efficiency is the equivalent of 120 mpg. I'm waiting for them to open a dealership in NC before I plunk down the $5K to reserve one.

Other electric options are the Aptera, which is around $30K but funky looking, or the Fisker Karma, which is closer to $90K but is stunning. Or the new Nissan Leaf econo-box. All of those are shipping this year I believe.

steilkurve

I've noticed the whining you're talking about, only at slow speeds though and with the windows opened. Can't really pick it up otherwise. At first it sounded liked used brakes which didn't make sense because the car is new and then I realized it is also heard when accelerating with the electric motor only. So, clearly the electric engine. And I have 18" wheels.

NoiseFree

Yeah I picked up on the whining only at slow speeds too, but we had the windows closed at all times.
It wouldn't be a big deal/noticeable for most folks, but I'm extremely noise-sensitive.

The salesman said the sound probably would vary from vehicle to vehicle too.
So I don't know if the 18" that I tried had it or not.
It was the first one up and I was picking up on many other sounds (AC, road noise, gas motor etc. etc. so maybe it was there and I just didn't notice.

NoiseFree

Thanks Mag I'll have to look into these cars.
The 110K+ is way out of my league, but the S sedan at 50K might be manageable especially with a trade-in.

ingoodtime

I had my GS300 in the shop and had the hybrid as a
loaner. Kind of an odd interior but comfortable. Noise level
was ok. Kind of odd to feel the transition with engine
kicking in and out and it did some quirky bucking
on the hwy. Could not figure that out. At close to 40
grand and missing some key options, I'll pass on this one.
Next loaner will be the ES.

NoiseFree

I started reading up on the Nissan Leaf today and that got me thinking.

Since the 250h makes a whining noise that can be heard when operating off of the battery engine, wouldn't the electric cars be the same?

Also I wonder if the charging station that you install in your garage will make any noise?

Magellan55

Good questions. My guess is the electric motor has to make some kind of noise - heck it's spinning upwards of 10,000 RPM and you have reduction gears too. Road/wind noise will likely mask it at highway speed, but at slow speed I'll bet you hear something. Shouldn't be any louder than a gas engine though.

In fact, I was able to drive my HS up to 42 mph yesterday on battery only - it was eerily quiet, and felt like I had discovered a stealth mode :-). It just takes a very gentle throttle - keep the car in the dark green power band. This was in normal mode, not EV (which switches off @20). Braking was louder than acceleration - I guess the regen function of the motor makes the whining noise for some reason (I don't detect any whining except when braking). So I'd expect a full-electric car to sound like that.

No idea on the charging station, but it's really just a transformer so it shouldn't do much more than a quiet hum. Think of it as a bigger version of your cell phone charger or laptop power supply - that doesn't make any noise right?