Real MPG
01-07-10, 06:04 AM
#16
I have been debating on writing this as I usually like to work things out myself. However I have been very discouraged as to the mpg’s I have seen with my HS. Bear in mind I just crossed over 1000 miles the other day and not sure if that makes a difference.
Driving the HS through its first tank of gas was of course a learning curve. I achieved no better than 31-32 mpg. This was using mainly the eco mode and toying with the power mode. My wife could only get about 29-30 mpg, but she does have a heavier foot. I started reading a little more on hybrid driving techniques and have started trying to put them into practice. On my current and last tank I have made every effort to not exceed the lime green line and use only the eco mode. I have had to dip into the power band a few times but only when there was no other option (entering a freeway). I made sure I was in the power band for only a short time. I have been trying to do the whole “let your foot off the gas for a second and let the batteries takeover” as well as some very minor pulse and drive. I am still only seeing average mpg’s of 31-32. I have seen 35 pop up once but only as I was parking. I do try to use the EV mode for my neighborhood and parking lots, as well as some stop lights when traffic is low. Nothing seems to carry me beyond the 32-33 mark.
What makes this more frustrating is reading where HS drivers are running around in power mode 24/7 and getting 35 mpg no problem. I am not asking to see 47mpg out of my HS, however it would be great to achieve 40. Hell, I would settle for the epa sticker 34-35 at this point.
Any ideas on what could be wrong?
Thanks in advance!
Driving the HS through its first tank of gas was of course a learning curve. I achieved no better than 31-32 mpg. This was using mainly the eco mode and toying with the power mode. My wife could only get about 29-30 mpg, but she does have a heavier foot. I started reading a little more on hybrid driving techniques and have started trying to put them into practice. On my current and last tank I have made every effort to not exceed the lime green line and use only the eco mode. I have had to dip into the power band a few times but only when there was no other option (entering a freeway). I made sure I was in the power band for only a short time. I have been trying to do the whole “let your foot off the gas for a second and let the batteries takeover” as well as some very minor pulse and drive. I am still only seeing average mpg’s of 31-32. I have seen 35 pop up once but only as I was parking. I do try to use the EV mode for my neighborhood and parking lots, as well as some stop lights when traffic is low. Nothing seems to carry me beyond the 32-33 mark.
What makes this more frustrating is reading where HS drivers are running around in power mode 24/7 and getting 35 mpg no problem. I am not asking to see 47mpg out of my HS, however it would be great to achieve 40. Hell, I would settle for the epa sticker 34-35 at this point.
Any ideas on what could be wrong?
Thanks in advance!
you will just learn how to make it work better for yourself, and probably get another 10-15% within next few months, and then extra 15% in the summer time...
01-07-10, 09:51 AM
#17
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Mpg
I only have 200 miles on mine so need more time to train myself and for the break in but:
Driving it like I stole it: Still got 30 MPG
Yesterday on a 45 mile loop where I was really trying to get the most out of it , I averaged 40.5
Overall average on the computer for all 200 miles is at 31 MPG
So, I m happy...no complaints
Driving it like I stole it: Still got 30 MPG
Yesterday on a 45 mile loop where I was really trying to get the most out of it , I averaged 40.5
Overall average on the computer for all 200 miles is at 31 MPG
So, I m happy...no complaints
01-08-10, 04:14 PM
#18
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Thanks. I will try and increase some on my tire pressure and see how it affects handling and ride. On start up, the PSI is 32 to 33. After driving on the freeway for 10 miles, the psi is up to 35.
Also, read my other tread on "surging and cruising". This has some effect on gas mileage as well, from reading the threads from the RX400H forum. I am only getting around 29.5mpg so far on the first tank.
Also, read my other tread on "surging and cruising". This has some effect on gas mileage as well, from reading the threads from the RX400H forum. I am only getting around 29.5mpg so far on the first tank.
01-15-10, 09:10 AM
#19
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We have only had the HS for 3 weeks and have only conducted one test. Filled car, got right on hwy and drove 80 miles. Indicated MPG on car 46.4 MPG, topped up tank and calcuated an actual 45.2 MPG. I will test more as time goes on.
I had a RX400h for 3 years previous to the HS so I have thousands of miles of hybrid experience, could get 30+mpg all day long with it.
To me driving a hybrid is like a playing chess, strategy, watching traffic flow, sacrificing a little speed on the hills, running the flats on elec only, regenerating on the down hills, adjusting climate temps for max efficency. If I just jump in it and drive 33 to 35 MPG is real world.
Oh yea, I am also running High tire pressure, I did the same on the RX400h with no adverse tire wear. Actually the 400h sometimes had edge wear concerns, the extra pressure helped lift the edges and spread the wear more even across the tread.
I will keep a very close eye on the HS tires and see how the handle the high pressure.
I had a RX400h for 3 years previous to the HS so I have thousands of miles of hybrid experience, could get 30+mpg all day long with it.
To me driving a hybrid is like a playing chess, strategy, watching traffic flow, sacrificing a little speed on the hills, running the flats on elec only, regenerating on the down hills, adjusting climate temps for max efficency. If I just jump in it and drive 33 to 35 MPG is real world.
Oh yea, I am also running High tire pressure, I did the same on the RX400h with no adverse tire wear. Actually the 400h sometimes had edge wear concerns, the extra pressure helped lift the edges and spread the wear more even across the tread.
I will keep a very close eye on the HS tires and see how the handle the high pressure.
Last edited by Grumbles2; 01-15-10 at 09:16 AM. Reason: more info
01-15-10, 09:27 AM
#20
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Skip the long warm ups even in cold climates, the HS actaually has a quick ICE warm up system using heat from the catalyic converter. Actually it is best to not warm up at all, go ahead and use the gas you are using to warm up to propel the vehicle. Just take is slow, dont start cold and immediately go to the drag strip.
Exhaust Heat Recirculation System
(1) The exhaust heat recirculation system uses heat energy from the exhaust to heat the engine coolant. This ensures excellent fuel economy by improving engine warm-up performance.
(2) The exhaust heat recirculation system opens and closes a valve built into the exhaust center pipe assembly using the exhaust pipe gas control actuator. This changes the flow of exhaust gas in the center pipe.
(3) An engine coolant temperature switch, which is used only for the exhaust heat recirculation system, detects the temperature of the coolant flowing from the exhaust center pipe assembly.
(4) The exhaust center pipe assembly has a built in valve that is controlled by the exhaust pipe gas control actuator. The actuator opens and closes the valve built into the exhaust center pipe assembly, changing the direction of exhaust gas flow.
Exhaust Heat Recirculation System
(1) The exhaust heat recirculation system uses heat energy from the exhaust to heat the engine coolant. This ensures excellent fuel economy by improving engine warm-up performance.
(2) The exhaust heat recirculation system opens and closes a valve built into the exhaust center pipe assembly using the exhaust pipe gas control actuator. This changes the flow of exhaust gas in the center pipe.
(3) An engine coolant temperature switch, which is used only for the exhaust heat recirculation system, detects the temperature of the coolant flowing from the exhaust center pipe assembly.
(4) The exhaust center pipe assembly has a built in valve that is controlled by the exhaust pipe gas control actuator. The actuator opens and closes the valve built into the exhaust center pipe assembly, changing the direction of exhaust gas flow.
Last edited by Grumbles2; 01-15-10 at 09:29 AM. Reason: more info
01-15-10, 04:03 PM
#21
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It has been my experience in Lexus hybrids they DO NOT like cold weather, starts or short trips. As KGenaidy said idling or just sitting parked will hurt your overall MPG based on the trip computer. In my loaner I got a range of around 28-38 MPG depending on driving style. I am sure with practice/time warmer weather I could hit 40 MPG. 
01-15-10, 04:04 PM
#22
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To me driving a hybrid is like a playing chess, strategy, watching traffic flow, sacrificing a little speed on the hills, running the flats on elec only, regenerating on the down hills, adjusting climate temps for max efficency. If I just jump in it and drive 33 to 35 MPG is real world.
01-16-10, 01:50 AM
#23
It has been my experience in Lexus hybrids they DO NOT like cold weather, starts or short trips. As KGenaidy said idling or just sitting parked will hurt your overall MPG based on the trip computer. In my loaner I got a range of around 28-38 MPG depending on driving style. I am sure with practice/time warmer weather I could hit 40 MPG.
01-19-10, 06:31 PM
#24
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So far, with 2 tankfuls of gas, I got 34 on my first, including 200 miles of highway. My 2nd tank is getting 31. My daily commute has a lot of hills, great for going down, but hard to keep 50mph going up without power mode.
KGenaidy ... wow! What part of TX? I'm west of Austin in the Hill Country. Gotta study the S1 to S4 stuff. How did you learn about it?
KGenaidy ... wow! What part of TX? I'm west of Austin in the Hill Country. Gotta study the S1 to S4 stuff. How did you learn about it?
01-20-10, 09:58 AM
#25
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Hi MAMDomer,
I live in Frisco, TX. My miles have all been in the DFW area so far. The hill country will certainly present challenges.
For your consideration ... there is a technique called "Warp Stealth" (WS) that might be an equalizer for you with the highway and hills. The concept is while the engine is "turning" ... no fuel is flowing. This might work really well on the "downhill" portions. You get into and use WS over 40 mph by backing off the accelerator to no more then zero to 2 "ticks" above the charge line. The instant fuel economy should also be "pegged" at 90mpg. If you have a Scanguage ... IGN will be 5. This one took me quite a while to figure out ... so be patient with it.
I initially learned about S1-S4 stages from reading threads about it in the Toyota Prius and Camry Hybrid forums. However ... it was just in the last month or so that I finally "got it" and the importance of getting into S4 to maximize fuel economy.
Hope this helps and best of luck!
I live in Frisco, TX. My miles have all been in the DFW area so far. The hill country will certainly present challenges.
For your consideration ... there is a technique called "Warp Stealth" (WS) that might be an equalizer for you with the highway and hills. The concept is while the engine is "turning" ... no fuel is flowing. This might work really well on the "downhill" portions. You get into and use WS over 40 mph by backing off the accelerator to no more then zero to 2 "ticks" above the charge line. The instant fuel economy should also be "pegged" at 90mpg. If you have a Scanguage ... IGN will be 5. This one took me quite a while to figure out ... so be patient with it.
I initially learned about S1-S4 stages from reading threads about it in the Toyota Prius and Camry Hybrid forums. However ... it was just in the last month or so that I finally "got it" and the importance of getting into S4 to maximize fuel economy.
Hope this helps and best of luck!
Last edited by KGenaidy; 01-20-10 at 02:39 PM.
01-22-10, 05:12 PM
#26
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Ok, last weekend my wife and I went on our first real road trip with the HS. This was a mountain trip so lots of steep inclines but all total I managed to average 35mpg. Not bad. Since then I have experimented and got a little more feel for the car. With the car warm I have made several short trips (10-15 mile city roads) and can achieve 40+ mpg. Short highway trips at 65mph I have been able to see 34 to 37mpg. My all around average still winds up around the 34-35 range but I am glad to finally see real mileage. Oh, and I have been doing this in just the normal mode, not eco. Eco seems to actually hurt my highway mileage.
Spwolf – You said there is nothing wrong with 30mpg. You may be right in the cold, but with reading all the reviews I had my sights set higher. Gary1944 mentioned driving it like you stole it and getting 30mpg. I have not managed that trick yet. To answer your question I have been able to get 27-28mpg in my IS350 on road trips. Around town the average is more like 22-23. Driving it like I stole it … 14mpg.
All in all I have found myself getting a better feel for how the batteries react and gas pedal pressure. I guess it just takes time.
Thanks.
Spwolf – You said there is nothing wrong with 30mpg. You may be right in the cold, but with reading all the reviews I had my sights set higher. Gary1944 mentioned driving it like you stole it and getting 30mpg. I have not managed that trick yet. To answer your question I have been able to get 27-28mpg in my IS350 on road trips. Around town the average is more like 22-23. Driving it like I stole it … 14mpg.
All in all I have found myself getting a better feel for how the batteries react and gas pedal pressure. I guess it just takes time.
Thanks.
02-01-10, 03:18 AM
#27
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There has been some interest in the "Stages" of the HSD system. The following is from a post on GreenHybrid.com (http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/159268-post16.html). Also the TCH frequently asked questions post provides some useful information that is very applicable to the HS.
"
My car acts differently when it first starts up and when it is warmed up, are there different stages?
* The warm up times vary with the temperature as well as use of the car's climate control system. The ECO mode helps, but if the temperature is below 40F, you may see the ICE stay running for a long time if you have the heat on.
The TCH has 4 stages of operation.
1. Stage 1 is initial warmup. The ICE will not shut off and battery assist is greater than normal. In warmer weather, this lasts a minute or less. In colder weather it can last a few minutes.
2. Stage 2 is engine warmup. It lasts 2 or 3 miles in cool weather, longer in cold weather. The ICE shuts off if you stop, but will not shut off when coasting.
3. Stage 3 is partial hybrid mode. The ICE is warm, and the engine shuts off if you coast between 35 and 41mph. If you stop with the ICE running, it will stop after a short time, but stays running once started until you coast (between 35 and 41mph) or stop again.
4. Stage 4 is full hybrid mode. Enter it by braking to a complete stop (or slowing to a speed below 5 miles per hour) for approximately 7 -10 seconds (until the ICE shuts off), it is possible to enter Stage 4. It is hard to know if this ICE shutdown is due to stage 3 or entering stage 4. The only way to know is to accelerate to ~20mph and coast.
If the ICE...
o ...continues to run after you stop the car, it is still in stage 3.
o ...stops within a few seconds the car is in stage 4.
In stop and go traffic, stage 4 lets the ICE stop any time you coast, instead of having to be over 35mph when coasting. If the ICE is running, turn off the heat and the ICE turns off, you'll know that you are in stage 4.
If you want to try and force stage 4, the ICE must be running when you stop or the TCH will not enter stage 4, it will remain in stage 3. You can hold your foot on the brake and "blip" the throttle to "start" the ICE, and then enter Stage 4 after it shuts down (~ 7 seconds.)
Remember, cold weather conditions and turning on the heater may prevent the ICE from stopping (but it will keep you warm, use your own discretion and common sense).
* Typically how long do the stages last?
o Assuming moderate (50 to 60F) temperatures when driving on suburban roads (between 25 to 40 miles per hour)...
+ Stage 1 lasts approximately 30 seconds
+ Stage 2 approximately 3 minutes
+ Stage 3 approximately 3 minutes
Of course, warmer temps reduce the Stage 2 and 3 times and colder temps can greatly increase them.
"
"
My car acts differently when it first starts up and when it is warmed up, are there different stages?
* The warm up times vary with the temperature as well as use of the car's climate control system. The ECO mode helps, but if the temperature is below 40F, you may see the ICE stay running for a long time if you have the heat on.
The TCH has 4 stages of operation.
1. Stage 1 is initial warmup. The ICE will not shut off and battery assist is greater than normal. In warmer weather, this lasts a minute or less. In colder weather it can last a few minutes.
2. Stage 2 is engine warmup. It lasts 2 or 3 miles in cool weather, longer in cold weather. The ICE shuts off if you stop, but will not shut off when coasting.
3. Stage 3 is partial hybrid mode. The ICE is warm, and the engine shuts off if you coast between 35 and 41mph. If you stop with the ICE running, it will stop after a short time, but stays running once started until you coast (between 35 and 41mph) or stop again.
4. Stage 4 is full hybrid mode. Enter it by braking to a complete stop (or slowing to a speed below 5 miles per hour) for approximately 7 -10 seconds (until the ICE shuts off), it is possible to enter Stage 4. It is hard to know if this ICE shutdown is due to stage 3 or entering stage 4. The only way to know is to accelerate to ~20mph and coast.
If the ICE...
o ...continues to run after you stop the car, it is still in stage 3.
o ...stops within a few seconds the car is in stage 4.
In stop and go traffic, stage 4 lets the ICE stop any time you coast, instead of having to be over 35mph when coasting. If the ICE is running, turn off the heat and the ICE turns off, you'll know that you are in stage 4.
If you want to try and force stage 4, the ICE must be running when you stop or the TCH will not enter stage 4, it will remain in stage 3. You can hold your foot on the brake and "blip" the throttle to "start" the ICE, and then enter Stage 4 after it shuts down (~ 7 seconds.)
Remember, cold weather conditions and turning on the heater may prevent the ICE from stopping (but it will keep you warm, use your own discretion and common sense).
* Typically how long do the stages last?
o Assuming moderate (50 to 60F) temperatures when driving on suburban roads (between 25 to 40 miles per hour)...
+ Stage 1 lasts approximately 30 seconds
+ Stage 2 approximately 3 minutes
+ Stage 3 approximately 3 minutes
Of course, warmer temps reduce the Stage 2 and 3 times and colder temps can greatly increase them.
"
02-08-10, 07:53 PM
#28
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Been driving my mine for about 4 weeks... eco-mode, cold weather and all average 34-35 MPG, mostly suburban traffic with a couple of trips of the expressway for 10-15 miles. Most trips are short hops to grocery store or work (about 20 minutes worth of 25-45 mph in traffic) So far, I'm pleased.
02-17-10, 07:56 AM
#29
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Just wanted to post these. The 35.5 picture reflects a 230 mile round trip all interstate driving. The first half of the trip I was in a big rush (75-85 mph) and still managed 34mpg. Second half of the trip was a more normal 65-70 mph. Makes me wonder what I could have seen with more normal driving the first 1/2.
The second image I had to post for mere shock value. Understand the conditions were perfect. The car was warm and ready to go. The trip was about 12 miles and fairly level with 1 or 2 small hills. I reset the mpg gauge and did not exceed 40mph. The mpg gauge settled at this 72.2 for the last 3-4 miles of the trip. I wanted to continue the drive for another 10 miles to see where it would have settled. Again, I know this is not common and reflects perfect conditions, but thought it was neat to have maintained this good of mileage for a 12 mile trip.
The second image I had to post for mere shock value. Understand the conditions were perfect. The car was warm and ready to go. The trip was about 12 miles and fairly level with 1 or 2 small hills. I reset the mpg gauge and did not exceed 40mph. The mpg gauge settled at this 72.2 for the last 3-4 miles of the trip. I wanted to continue the drive for another 10 miles to see where it would have settled. Again, I know this is not common and reflects perfect conditions, but thought it was neat to have maintained this good of mileage for a 12 mile trip.