jkonquer

I think in sales stand point, fancy minivans like MDX are exactly what lexus needs and that's what majority of the people wants. They have the platform, the highlander, to make it work unless the new RX was based on the highlander. GX is perfect size, it just need to be 1000lbs lighter with 5-10 more mpg.

neelnaik

As an RX owner myself, I am really glad they have kept the RX roughly the same size it has been since the 2nd gen. Honestly, I use it as a commuter car, and it's the perfect size for 1 or 2 adults (with the very occasional 1 or 2 in the back). Size wise, I think it works well for a lot of people. There is plenty of room without being cramped (yes the NX feels a bit cramped), but still being relatively small, and that fits a lot of people's needs, mine included. However, I do think there is a need for a Highlander sized/based 3 row crossover. Don't get me wrong, I love the GX and the fact that it is BOF, but for a lot of people, a crossover just makes more sense. But here in Oklahoma, along with a lot of markets (cough cough south), the GX does incredibly well as there are lots of rough dirt roads, and the obsession with trucks in general. That being said, I could see Toyota introducing a 3 row crossover and still hanging on to the GX as long as they can, just refreshing it every few years. However, I think that eventually, due to fuel economy, either the GX/LX/Land Cruiser is going to be sent to the chopping block. I might get flack for this from LX/Cruiser owners, but I can see the LX and Land Cruiser being consolidated into 1 vehicle. The GX is just too different size wise from the LX/Cruiser. That, and there isn't really another mid-size BOF SUV out there anymore, but there's still a market for them (sales being proof of that). On the other hand, the Land Cruiser and the LX are very similar vehicles. Yes, I know, KDSS and air suspension make them different, as well as quality of the interior. But at the same time, I wouldn't think that many LC owners would have too much of an issue stepping up to the LX if they could get it with the LC suspension. If they dropped the base price on the LX a little to help close the price gap between the two models, I think they could definitely drop the Land Cruiser. Or if they did the converse and dropped the LX and offered a really upscale package on the Land Cruiser, I think that could work out too.

Quadro

You do realize Land Cruiser/LX couldn't care less what's happening to their sales in North American market?

SaniDel

Toyota seems to have no trouble selling Land Cruiser/Lexus LX in markets other than North America. They are becoming hard-to-get in the States, which makes them even more exclusive ... and immune to discounting.

It also may explain how they can get away with such a long product refresh cycle. When was the LX 570 introduced ... 2008? By most objective measures (efficiency, ergonomics, aerodynamics ... not to mention styling, features and interior colors, e.g., sepia) the GX 460 is a more modern vehicle than the LX 570. We have seriously considered trading our 2010 GX 460 for an LX, but it would be "a step backward" in too many ways.

Unless Toyota raises the ante on the LX and makes it at least as modern as the GX, if not more so ... our next vehicle will be another GX ... even if it is the last of the GX!
Regards,

SaniDel

Quadro

I think the main problem with US market for LC/LX is reliability and durability is not a top priority for the average buyer which mean all the dollars went into platform R&D and production costs effectively add little value to the majority of car buyers. Most of the Land Cruiser buyers in the US seems to be enthusiasts able to see beyond what's in the plain sight. In other parts of the world... "it's an essential" as Toyota LC page once said.

drsusi

[I am a professional woman and have a 2008 Lexus GX460. I have not been able to purchase a new one since they have removed the armrests. I sometimes do long distance driving and the new console is over 6 inches below my elbow. If I use it to lean on then I have to lower my seat and can't see over the hood. Apparently men dictate those type of things but honestly they should be a paid extra option. Most of the women I know would like armrests on the chairs and I realize men do not like them.

Does anyone know why they can't put them back on? Since they have all gone to these cheaper foam seats there is no metal rods to put on an adjustable arm rest. Converter places don't have anything. Sure I could put a pillow on the console but I have a hard time dealing with that and the cost of the next GX.

What happened to the real build your own GX? Maybe there would be more sold if that were really true. What does it take to please the customer. Will the next GX have armrests? Are they outlawed?

Max707

Very insightful, the LX is the only Lexus built to last a lifetime. It's built to survive a third world environment. Most buyers in the USA don't know and don't care they just want the latest electronic gimmic.

kroorda

My GX goes off-road - So, the new GX won't be for me.

Randy B

Professional woman or not, there is no possible way for you to have a 2008 GX460 in the US. They weren't imported here until model year 2010. There never was a, "Build your own GX." Lexus NA brings in the packages, colors, engines, and options they want, and feel will sell and be profitable for the dealers. Which in turn makes the brand successful and profitable in NA.

You seem to be pretty off base with your post.

Randy B

bam

Here's what I see...

LandCruiser and LX570 are based on the same platform and although they don't sell very well in the states, they do sell very well in other parts of the world like Dubai and Australia where people really do the need and require the off road prowess of the LC/LX. Remember, most people that buy suv's in America only see dirt when the street sweeper hasn't driven through the parking lot of your neighborhood malls.

The GX is the same platform as the 4Runner and the 4Runner has one of the highest rates of pepple actually going off road and using it to tow boats and such. I don't THINK the 4Runner will change to a unibody frame. Now I say this because I don't THINK the GX is leading future R&D on this platform. I think the 4Runner is leading the case and if the 4Runner moves to a unibody, I will then say the GX will move to a unibody. If the 4Runner stays with BOF, then the GX will stay BOF. I think the 4Runner has it's place in the lineup but the GX seems to be the red-headed-step-child, as they say. It doesn't need to be a BOF but only is to spread the cost of development out from the 4Runner. Frankly, if there was a vehicle that Lexus could do without, it would be the BOF GX. They should change it to a unibody.

As for the RX, I think this suv is very good for very many people. I did recently receive a survey from Lexus asking about 3rd row seating and a very high person at Lexus has recently come out and said that they made a mistake putting the RC to market before a unibody suv with 3rd row seating. Now the question is, will they make a long version of the RX with 3rd row seating or will they make a completely new vehicle with 3rd row seating on a brand new platform?

So here's my "solution." The GX BOF disappears and future R&D for the 4Runner is kept to the 4Runner and not spread out. The GX becomes a unibody and turns into the 3rd row seating vehicle that so many people have asked for. This is a brand new platform. The R&D cost will be made up because this vehicle is expected to do very well in the Lexus lineup so they can afford to R&D this vehicle from the ground up on a brand new platform.

Then, I'd like to see Lexus add another unibody suv with rear wheel drive underpinnings. Make it a driver's suv. This could be based off of the new GX platform that I purposed above.

As for the LX/LC, keep them in the line up but add a good diesel option and add a stretched option like the Escalade ESV where seating for 8 is comfortable with room for cargo/luggage. (The only thing that kept us away from the LX570 was that it wasn't large enough. The 3rd row is a joke and not to mention the joke of a cargo area.) Make an XL and you got a customer. Make an XL with a sweet diesel option and we'll run to the dealer.

T4Fun

[QUOTE=bam;9054702]


"The GX is the same platform as the 4Runner and the 4Runner has one of the highest rates of pepple actually going off road and using it to tow boats and such. I don't THINK the 4Runner will change to a unibody frame. Now I say this because I don't THINK the GX is leading future R&D on this platform. I think the 4Runner is leading the case and if the 4Runner moves to a unibody, I will then say the GX will move to a unibody. If the 4Runner stays with BOF, then the GX will stay BOF. I think the 4Runner has it's place in the lineup but the GX seems to be the red-headed-step-child, as they say. It doesn't need to be a BOF but only is to spread the cost of development out from the 4Runner. Frankly, if there was a vehicle that Lexus could do without, it would be the BOF GX. They should change it to a unibody.
rd row seating on a brand new platform?"

the gx is not the same platform as the 4runner. Thats what many think including myself when i first bot it. Its based on the land cruiser prado. The 4runner shares some components including brakes and some frame components, but thats it.

we all have no clue what toyota is up to, but you can look to the LX which should be redesigned soon as it came out before the gx.

Jacket

I generally agree with you Bam, and it will be interesting to see if Toyota caves to the US market pressures, or if they hold steady to the world platforms that are their legacy. Here's a possibility for Toyota to morph their SUV lineup (excluding the smaller platforms):

Toyota 4Runner - BOF mid-size utility
Lexus GX - BOF mid-size luxury SUV (I love the Prado platform and it's a significant seller worldwide so I say it stays, but maybe joins the 70 series LC as unobtanium in the US)

Toyota Highlander - mid-size crossover with 3 rows
Lexus ?X - New model. Mid-size crossover based on Highlander platform

Toyota Land Cruiser - full size SUV (BOF, 112" wheelbase, Low range, etc.)
Toyota Sequoia - full size "crossover"
Lexus LX - full size LWB based on Sequoia platform

Not something I'd like to see, but I guess I'm an outlier.

Toyota has the platforms - the Highlander and Sequoia - that could solve their crossover needs without sacrificing the Land Cruiser specifications that they also need to maintain. The Land Cruiser, if priced a bit more marketable (maybe $55-70 depending on options), could span the gap between it's current position and the GX and maintain a full size SUV presence for Toyota. Then they could go nuts with high priced Lexus models where the buyer doesn't seem to want utility, but instead something that can compete with the other lightweight, luxury station wagons that appeal to the US buyer. Spend more for less.

1111GS

This is nice. Do you have link to support this? I was under the impression that they are not but a cars guy told me they are.

I'd be interested in knowing what's coming for 2016 model if it still exists. Like the 15 alot but hate to find out the 16 is a redesign. Any updates?

bam

[QUOTE=T4Fun;9054740]My understanding that in other markets, Toyota has the Land Cruiser Prado which is based on the J150 platform. US does not have the Prado. It's my understanding that the 4Runner uses the J150 platform and is tuned for the sporty and truly off-road adventure user while the GX460 is also based on the J150 platform, it is balanced more towards the luxury side.

Jacket

Indeed. There are certainly some small and some larger differences (too many too list), but Toyota does a good job of sharing parts under the hood and frame across the platform. Diffs, axles, springs, shocks, drivetrain components, brakes, etc.