FrigginFGO

I'll help get this where its supposed to be. I like the 2014 although I'm not fan of the approach angles or front end. I still think the base model is pretty much a Toyota 4Runner Limited V8 with a Lexus price tag. I can definitely see used 2010-2013 models taken off-pavement a lot more than this refreshed version years from now.

SW17LS

If your position is a vehicle is better for its occupants when it doesn't crush, then you don't know how crumple zones work. You cannot have a serious accident, prevent a total loss AND protect your family. Physics are what they are, crash forces have to go somewhere. The vehicle is designed to sacrifice itself to protect you.

The pictures you posted are meaningless. We have no idea the speeds involved or how they compare. We have no idea what injuries the people sustained. You say the FJ is "Strong" because its BOF, when the Yukon and Silverado you praise the FJ for "totaling" are also BOF. The FJ will fare better because its a tall vehicle and other vehicles are going to slide underneath it, as they did in these wrecks, but thats more a benefit than it being BOF.

I have a cousin with an FJ that rear ended someone in it. Guess what? It was totaled.

Here's a picture of a totaled FJ (found something taller than it)...



Others:





Crash test:



The Mercedes ML you posted the picture of has a 5 star crash test rating (because crash test results are determined based on occupant injury, not vehicle damage), 5 star driver, front passenger, 5 star rollover

http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Shop...vehicleId=7683

They have never tested the FJ, but the similar framed 4 Runner is only a 4 star rated car, with 4 stars for front driver and only 3 stars for front passenger, 3 stars for rollover (again thanks to being BOF)

http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Shop...vehicleId=7156

If you asked me which vehicle I'd rather have me or my family in during an accident, its unquestionably the ML.

I think this argument is circular, but my opinion hasn't changed. I think Lexus would sell FAR more $50-$55k 3 row unibody SUVs than they do GX's. Every competitor that does outsells them handily, even with vehicles costing far more. People are not buying these vehicles new to drive them offroad or to tow (towing rating is pretty poor for its class, poorer than unibody SUVs), and the tradeoffs for the BOF construction (jittery ride, high center of gravity, cramped, narrow interior space with a high floor, weight) are too much for 99% of consumers who just buy them to have a classy, all weather capable vehicle to drive to the mall or the country club. Even if they did take them offroad, unibody vehicles can be just as capable as BOF vehicles offroad and in towing situations, without the drawbacks of a vehicle thats BOF on road. We see that with the capability of unibody SUVs like the Land Rover, Range Rover, Mercedes GL (note in that review the primary problem was the lack of a low range, not the chassis), Jeep Grand Cherokee. We know the GX is not hitting the spot with consumers from sales figures that show the GX is selling less than 1/4 as many units as any competitor. Its proven Lexus feels this is an issue, which is why they have reduced the GX's price $4k in 2014, and begun discussion of a 3 row unibody SUV, and discussed stopping production of the GX in 2016. Thats my position.

All indications from Lexus are that change will happen in 2016...so its not just me.

FrigginFGO

If you think you will be safe in an ML so be it. This Prado platform is being stolen in Lebanon and taken to Syria to be used in their civil war. That's because it will take a beating better than any unibody and for safety concerns.

But for the sake of getting this thread back on track, we'll agree to disagree.

SW17LS

I use data, statistics to determine where I think I and my family will be safe, not some personal bias that "its BOF or nothing" that I have no basis for whatsoever. I *know* my family would be safe in an ML...the proof is out there. I don't have to "think* I would be safe.My wife is my passenger...I want a 5 star rated passenger safety vehicle, not a 3 star.

The data is there. She is 3-4 times more likely to be injured in the 4 Runner than the ML.

Do they have a lot of unibody vehicles in Lebanon to steal to use for their civil war?

In any event, next time I wage a civil war I will keep that in mind. You could tell me the Prado platform operates better on the moon too, but seeing as I don't live in Syria or on the moon...I don't care. I select a vehicle based on its attributes and abilities to do things I want to do, and a unibody SUV like an LR4 or my Jeep will do everything a GX could do (85% of which I will never do) while providing a more stable, comfortable on road experience, lower center of gravity, lower weight and better economy, and better safety.

THAT is why the GX doesn't sell well and the other vehicles in its class sell great. They struggle to sell 1,000 units a month and MB does 4k with the more expensive GL, Acura does 6k with the MDX, Infiniti does 3,500 with the JX...and its ugly as sin with a CVT that drives like a refrigerator. Lexus could sell 4k a month TX crossovers no problem.

I'm all for agreeing to disagree, but I'm not going to ignore flat out false statements like "a vehicle is not safe because it crumples in an accident". A 6th grade physics textbook tells you thats not true.

Koz

Gents, let’s get back to the OP. If you want to discuss the off subject further please start a new thread.

Koz

Koz

What part of getting back to the OP wasn't understood? I will close this thread if this continues!

Koz

Booyah

Its ABOUT time--thanks!!!