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Old 09-09-12, 10:45 AM   #16
varok
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Originally Posted by tazdevl View Post
Just picked up some LTX M/S2's. Seems quieter than the Brdgestones (POS tire IMO), rides a bit firmer, handles better and tracks straighter on the highway. My guess a lot of that is due to the stiffer sidewall on the LTXs. GX feels flatter in turns.

Front range got a bunch of rain today and I can definitely say the tires do MUCH better in the rain than the Bridgestones.

One other thing, the new tires are 2lbs lighter than the Bridgestones. May result in a slight improvement with acceleration and gas mileage. Time will tell.
Thanks for the info. I'm also planning to upgrade my tires. Did you stick with the OEM size or did you size up?
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Old 09-09-12, 03:17 PM   #17
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Thanks for the info. I'm also planning to upgrade my tires. Did you stick with the OEM size or did you size up?
OEM size. Sizing up, not sure what you're gaining. Most folks size up for better handling. GX is a 5300lb truck, not a performance car, doubt you're going to see any gains there and the LTXs have better traction over the OE tires.
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Old 09-09-12, 03:39 PM   #18
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The Michelin Latitude Tour HP tires that came on our 2010 base GX 460 have a Treadwear/Traction/Temperature rating of 440/A/A (see attached photograph of sidewall). Why do you believe that the LTX tires will have better traction ... do they have a higher traction rating?
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Old 09-09-12, 05:54 PM   #19
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check tire racks website. the OEMS are horrible, bridgestone and michelin alike
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Old 09-09-12, 06:05 PM   #20
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check tire racks website. the OEMS are horrible, bridgestone and michelin alike
I'm not starting an open-ended argument about which tire brands are horrible ... or wonderful.

I asked how replacement tires could have better traction than the OM tires, which are A rated. My question would be answered to learn ... for example, that there is an "A+" traction rating for some tires ... is there?

Perhaps a picture of the sidewall ratings of the replacement tires as I provided for the OEM tires is all we need.
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Old 09-09-12, 06:19 PM   #21
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Simply looking at them side by side.

Head to the michelin site and do a compare between the Latitudes and LTXs. LTXs are 720AA with a 70K mileage warranty. Keep in mind AA just means it meets the minimum hurdle for the rating and does not differentiate within the rating.

Pick up the phone, call tirerack, sears, discount tire and do some research.

I'm not here to sell tires, just to share my experience.
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Old 09-09-12, 06:33 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by tazdevl View Post
Simply looking at them side by side.

Head to the michelin site and do a compare between the Latitudes and LTXs. LTXs are 720AA with a 70K mileage warranty. Keep in mind AA just means it meets the minimum hurdle for the rating and does not differentiate within the rating.

Pick up the phone, call tirerack, sears, discount tire and do some research.

I'm not here to sell tires, just to share my experience.
Thank you for providing information to answer my question about your previous post. All I wanted to know was why you claimed that the LTXs had better traction than the Latitudes, for which I provided a picture of the sidewall rating.

If I may read into your answer ... an A rating for traction means the tire meets the minimum for that standard, but it may have better traction. Presumably, you have research results that prove the LTX tire does, which answers the question.

Thanks also for your suggestion to "Pick up the phone, call tirerack, sears, discount tire and do some research" but I'm not tire shopping yet as we have less than 25,000 miles accumulated. Perhaps after we return from our road trip to Florida, but I would hope to get at least 40,000 miles ... if I understand the treadwear rating we should expect 44,000, right?
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Old 09-09-12, 08:58 PM   #23
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http://www.michelinman.com/tire-sele...65/60/18/tires

Tire comparo.

Good chance on the tires assuming you rotated regularly.
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Old 09-10-12, 07:22 AM   #24
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Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG) Standards

Traction Ratings;

The test standard for the traction is done on a controlled test course for approx 7200 miles. Using controlled criteria a vehicle’s brakes are locked and the g forces are measured. These rating only give a general rating. You may have ten different tires with the same rating and all will have different handling characteristics based on its construction.

AA = Asphalt/.54 – Concrete/.41
A = .47 - .35
B = .38 - .26
C = -.38 - .26

Temperature Ratings;

The Test standard for temperature is established by measuring a loaded tire's ability to operate at high speeds without failure by running an inflated test tire against a large diameter high-speed laboratory test wheel.

A = over 115 mph
B = 100 to 115 mph
C = 85 to 100 mph

With this said, every different tire (with the same rating) will actually have their better and worse qualities. This is where the consumer ratings (real world) come into play and I personally feel they are the most accurate and important ratings. I have experienced tires with lower ratings out performing the higher rated tires. There are many other variables involved in REAL WORLD driving (such as the design dynamics of the vehicle and driving conditions/styles) that are not used in the UTQG ratings.

Note – OEM tires are made with different criteria and specs then a replacement tire. Even within the replacement market the same tires can/are made to different specs. At one time (not sure anymore) Sears Michelin tires were made to a Sears spec (cheaper tire with the same model name). Nothing beats personal experience. When thousands of owners consistently rate a tire better, I personally feel these ratings are more accurate and would use them before relying on any manufacture’s UTQG ratings/opinion/claims.

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Old 09-10-12, 08:36 AM   #25
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Thank you, Koz for a complete answer to a simple question. There is a traction rating better than 'A' i.e., AA, which explains how a replacement tire could have better traction than an OEM tire.

Thanks also to tazdevl for a useful tire comparison from Michelin, which I will use when it is time to replace our tires. It is obvious from that comparison that the Latitude Tour HP™ tires that came on our GX may give the best ride, but they won't last as long as other Michelin tires and they certainly are less-suited to go off-road. At least, that is what Michelin claims for their tires ... complicate the picture by comparing brands and it's really up to the consumer to decide by personal experience.

Unless we are terribly disappointed by the wear life of our Latitude Tour HP tires, we would likely replace them with the same. As we have accumulated less than 25,000 miles and the vehicle is almost three-years old, wear life isn't a major issue for us, but ride comfort, handling and braking are. By those measures, we are delighted with our tires.
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Old 09-10-12, 12:08 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by SaniDel View Post
Unless we are terribly disappointed by the wear life of our Latitude Tour HP tires, we would likely replace them with the same. As we have accumulated less than 25,000 miles and the vehicle is almost three-years old, wear life isn't a major issue for us, but ride comfort, handling and braking are. By those measures, we are delighted with our tires.
Regards,

SaniDel
The LTX MS2 tire does EVERYTHING better then the HPs (and pretty much better then ANY other tire). The HPs cost more and will last approx half the mileage. The LTX MS2s are the best rated tire on the market for SUVs. Don't even think about the HPs!

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Old 09-10-12, 06:34 PM   #27
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The LTX MS2 tire does EVERYTHING better then the HPs (and pretty much better then ANY other tire). The HPs cost more and will last approx half the mileage. The LTX MS2s are the best rated tire on the market for SUVs. Don't even think about the HPs!

Koz
What he said. Couple days now and very happy with the LTXs.
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Old 09-17-12, 08:22 PM   #28
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Put a few hundo miles on the LTXs including offroad. Few observations. Sidewalls are much stiffer than the OE. So if you run at 35PSI with OE tires, unless you like a bouncy ride, best to drop pressure down to 32PSI. Sport mode with the LTXs feels less compliant than before, which isn't a bad thing at the right tire pressure.

Car rides flatter in turns, OE tires tend to roll on the sidewalls, these don't. Noisewise, can't tell the difference between the two. Getting 1 MPG more with the LTXs.

Offroad, went into the mountains to check out the aspens, tires gripped better on dirt covered rock/scree, braked better as well.
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Old 09-19-12, 07:21 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by tazdevl View Post
Put a few hundo miles on the LTXs including offroad. Few observations. Sidewalls are much stiffer than the OE. So if you run at 35PSI with OE tires, unless you like a bouncy ride, best to drop pressure down to 32PSI. Sport mode with the LTXs feels less compliant than before, which isn't a bad thing at the right tire pressure.

Car rides flatter in turns, OE tires tend to roll on the sidewalls, these don't. Noisewise, can't tell the difference between the two. Getting 1 MPG more with the LTXs.

Offroad, went into the mountains to check out the aspens, tires gripped better on dirt covered rock/scree, braked better as well.
More or less air in the tires should not affect the amount of bounce in the ride. Bounce is caused by the suspension. The AVS (if you have the premium model) controls the bounce stiffness (compression/rebound); comfort setting = more bounce and sport setting = less bounce. The reason you feel less compliance is because you are running less air. I found (from many years of trying different pressures and tires) that (SUVs) with a "P" tires 40 psi provides the best handling, wear and mileage without creating a harsh ride. With "LT" tires 55 to 60 psi works best. The only negative I have experienced is if there large joints in the pavement you will get thumping. Try 40 psi for a week or so and you will not even notice the higher pressure.

Koz
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Old 09-19-12, 09:17 PM   #30
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Max pressure for the LTXs is 44psi. Given the altitude I'm at and where I get to, need to take that into account as well as increase in pressure due to road friction/heat when I set tire pressure.

Tires are P-metric (they do have an E-Metric). I have the premium and can tell you that Bridgetones at 35psi were more compliant in Sport than the LTXs. When I dropped the pressure from 35psi to 32psi on the LTXs, the ride felt better in Sport. The sidewalls are considerably stiffer in the LTXs which means more of the energy from bumps etc... is transferred to the suspension instead of being kept at the wheels, I'm sure the harder rubber compound contributes to this as well.

I can only speak to my experience having owned both OEs (Bridgestones most recently) and now the LTXs.

This is all couched with the caveat that my GX developed the wheel vibration issue. Waiting to get it back from the dealer (flutter TSB) before I mess around with pressures more.
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