powder coated OEM wheels
01-27-12, 05:24 PM
#17
Racer
01-29-12, 06:19 AM
#18
Koz
Last edited by Koz; 01-29-12 at 06:24 AM.
01-29-12, 07:34 AM
#19
I'm sorry to tell you, Koz. You are mostly wrong with regards to lifting the vehicle and the "negative effects". You telling people this is wrong too. If you lift your vehicle and keep the caster within spec, the truck will actually ride and perform better. Assuming you have a nice quality spring and shock set up. Go read on pradopoint.com about all the successfully lifted trucks, larger tires and their happy owners.
I have larger tires ony truck and I think it rides better than it did with stock tires. I think your moderator status has gone to your head, swelled it and is effecting your judgement / filter.
01-29-12, 07:45 AM
#20
FYI- mr moderator...
This thread is about wheels and one guy asked about tires. But I asked a question you either didn't feel like answering or felt that the "lifting topic", eventhough off topic was a better use of your valuable moderator time. 1 guy simply wished he could mount a larger tire on a wheel and you go off spouting about things you don't know about. It's ok not to know everything, mr moderator, but giving incorrect unsolicited advise is wrong.
This thread is about wheels and one guy asked about tires. But I asked a question you either didn't feel like answering or felt that the "lifting topic", eventhough off topic was a better use of your valuable moderator time. 1 guy simply wished he could mount a larger tire on a wheel and you go off spouting about things you don't know about. It's ok not to know everything, mr moderator, but giving incorrect unsolicited advise is wrong.
01-29-12, 09:09 AM
#21
Amazing that you have the knowledge with out experience.
I'm sorry to tell you, Koz. You are mostly wrong with regards to lifting the vehicle and the "negative effects". You telling people this is wrong too. If you lift your vehicle and keep the caster within spec, the truck will actually ride and perform better. Assuming you have a nice quality spring and shock set up. Go read on pradopoint.com about all the successfully lifted trucks, larger tires and their happy owners.
I have larger tires ony truck and I think it rides better than it did with stock tires. I think your moderator status has gone to your head, swelled it and is effecting your judgement / filter.
I'm sorry to tell you, Koz. You are mostly wrong with regards to lifting the vehicle and the "negative effects". You telling people this is wrong too. If you lift your vehicle and keep the caster within spec, the truck will actually ride and perform better. Assuming you have a nice quality spring and shock set up. Go read on pradopoint.com about all the successfully lifted trucks, larger tires and their happy owners.
I have larger tires ony truck and I think it rides better than it did with stock tires. I think your moderator status has gone to your head, swelled it and is effecting your judgement / filter.
I certainly would not post anything without having the knowledge or experience about that particular subject. If you would like to debate my post I would gladly do so, but without the personal attacks. My post was intended to make someone aware of the effects of a modification. If you disagree and can show me/us that I am wrong and I will be the first to admit I was wrong.
Let me start by saying; anytime you raise the center of gravity you will lose SOME handling on-road. I am sure Toyota engineers have designed ALL aspects of the suspension to provide the best and safest overall ride and handling. I have modified just about every vehicle I have ever owned and from experience I can say when it comes to lifts and bigger overall diameter tires; the more you deviate from the OEM design/spec the more it effects the on-road ride/handling in a negative way.
Depending on what type of driving you do, sacrificing a little high speed handling for ground clearance is worth the mod. I would think that most 2nd gen GX owners are not too concerned about an extra inch of ground clearance when 99% of driving will be on-road. If off-road driving is more important then by all means lift and get taller tires. I would also seriously consider taking off the running boards (maybe adding sliders) and getting some decent skid plates.
Koz
Last edited by Koz; 01-29-12 at 09:41 AM.
01-29-12, 09:24 AM
#22
Koz
01-30-12, 12:19 PM
#23
You are correct about one thing, I did post off the OP (a little) and if that has caused a problem with anyone, I am truly sorry! Since this section (Second Gen GX) of the Lexus site is very slow, I try to generate some activity by adding to a current post. If this is a problem I will stop.
I certainly would not post anything without having the knowledge or experience about that particular subject. If you would like to debate my post I would gladly do so, but without the personal attacks. My post was intended to make someone aware of the effects of a modification. If you disagree and can show me/us that I am wrong and I will be the first to admit I was wrong.
Let me start by saying; anytime you raise the center of gravity you will lose SOME handling on-road. I am sure Toyota engineers have designed ALL aspects of the suspension to provide the best and safest overall ride and handling. I have modified just about every vehicle I have ever owned and from experience I can say when it comes to lifts and bigger overall diameter tires; the more you deviate from the OEM design/spec the more it effects the on-road ride/handling in a negative way.
Depending on what type of driving you do, sacrificing a little high speed handling for ground clearance is worth the mod. I would think that most 2nd gen GX owners are not too concerned about an extra inch of ground clearance when 99% of driving will be on-road. If off-road driving is more important then by all means lift and get taller tires. I would also seriously consider taking off the running boards (maybe adding sliders) and getting some decent skid plates.
Koz
I certainly would not post anything without having the knowledge or experience about that particular subject. If you would like to debate my post I would gladly do so, but without the personal attacks. My post was intended to make someone aware of the effects of a modification. If you disagree and can show me/us that I am wrong and I will be the first to admit I was wrong.
Let me start by saying; anytime you raise the center of gravity you will lose SOME handling on-road. I am sure Toyota engineers have designed ALL aspects of the suspension to provide the best and safest overall ride and handling. I have modified just about every vehicle I have ever owned and from experience I can say when it comes to lifts and bigger overall diameter tires; the more you deviate from the OEM design/spec the more it effects the on-road ride/handling in a negative way.
Depending on what type of driving you do, sacrificing a little high speed handling for ground clearance is worth the mod. I would think that most 2nd gen GX owners are not too concerned about an extra inch of ground clearance when 99% of driving will be on-road. If off-road driving is more important then by all means lift and get taller tires. I would also seriously consider taking off the running boards (maybe adding sliders) and getting some decent skid plates.
Koz
So you HAVE lifted your vehicle, decided you didn't like it because of the "loss in performance" then went back to stock? I ask this because you said you wouldn't post on something you didn't have experience with.
You are correct with regards to center of gravity, but your center of gravity can change when you load up the roof. The changes aren't detrimental and aren't even noticed. Most people will install some wheel spacers to fit a larger tire, this will effectively lower the center of gravity by widening the stance. You can add upper control arms that correct your caster and camber so that all the geometry is back to factory spec.
To simply say "No matter what anyone will tell you, lifting and/or up sizing tires will have a negative effect on the on-road ride/performance." is what I had a BIG problem with. That statement is wrong in so many ways. I was surprised to see it come out of a moderator. It depends on how you lift it. If you just install some 2 inch spacers and crank up the torsion bars as high as they go, then yes, you'll have a wondering erratic vehicle that will no longer be a joy to drive. If you do it right and address the geometry issues then you'll have no issues.
With regards to larger tires...
I say to each their own. Some people like low profile tires on 20" rims. This set up will have a larger negative effect than a 285 tire. You might see an improvement on cornering due to the lower COG, but the quality of ride will suffer due to the lack of sidewall. Also, your turning radius will decrease due to the lack of wheel clearance from lock to lock. If you drive a premuim with crawl control, cameras etc, you have effectively turned a Dakar winner into a mall cruiser. A 285 tire will have some negative effects as well. For instance, your braking distance will increase by a very small margin and your 0 -60 time will drop a bit. Your gas mileage will decrease a bit, but I never got 20mpg with stock tires anyway. Most people that install or want a larger tire want an aggressive tire. Something that will handle whatever situation you throw at it. Case in point - while in SW Colorado on vacation last summer we encountered a flash flood that washed 2" of mud over the road. The road was impassible for cars and hard for 4x4 trucks to get through. I walked right through it and even helped a new Grand Cherokee 4x4 with factory 20's and radial tires out of a ditch. I wish I had a picture of it!
Unless you drive through a slalom course on your way to work, then you'll never notice the difference. Won't KDDS do it's job and limit your sway? There is no real way of knowing unless there is a test done on a slalom. My fiance really likes sitting higher than most and seeing traffic issues before the car in front of her. But sitting higher than most isn't for everyone, so I've come full circle, to each their own. Let's remember we aren't driving slim and trim IS F's, but pig bellied 4x4 trucks with nice leather and great sound systems.
I apologize if you or anyone else was offended by my verbiage. It wasn't intended to be a personal attack. I'm passionate about cars, especially the ones I own, as I'm sure you all are. I had to respond to something I felt was wrong. Sorry Koz.
01-31-12, 08:10 AM
#24
I would love to debate this with you. By no means did I intend on this being a personal attack, I was simply stating my opinion. My opinion is that you're giving out bad advice.
So you HAVE lifted your vehicle, decided you didn't like it because of the "loss in performance" then went back to stock? I ask this because you said you wouldn't post on something you didn't have experience with.
You are correct with regards to center of gravity, but your center of gravity can change when you load up the roof. The changes aren't detrimental and aren't even noticed. Most people will install some wheel spacers to fit a larger tire, this will effectively lower the center of gravity by widening the stance. You can add upper control arms that correct your caster and camber so that all the geometry is back to factory spec.
To simply say "No matter what anyone will tell you, lifting and/or up sizing tires will have a negative effect on the on-road ride/performance." is what I had a BIG problem with. That statement is wrong in so many ways. I was surprised to see it come out of a moderator. It depends on how you lift it. If you just install some 2 inch spacers and crank up the torsion bars as high as they go, then yes, you'll have a wondering erratic vehicle that will no longer be a joy to drive. If you do it right and address the geometry issues then you'll have no issues.
With regards to larger tires...
I say to each their own. Some people like low profile tires on 20" rims. This set up will have a larger negative effect than a 285 tire. You might see an improvement on cornering due to the lower COG, but the quality of ride will suffer due to the lack of sidewall. Also, your turning radius will decrease due to the lack of wheel clearance from lock to lock. If you drive a premuim with crawl control, cameras etc, you have effectively turned a Dakar winner into a mall cruiser. A 285 tire will have some negative effects as well. For instance, your braking distance will increase by a very small margin and your 0 -60 time will drop a bit. Your gas mileage will decrease a bit, but I never got 20mpg with stock tires anyway. Most people that install or want a larger tire want an aggressive tire. Something that will handle whatever situation you throw at it. Case in point - while in SW Colorado on vacation last summer we encountered a flash flood that washed 2" of mud over the road. The road was impassible for cars and hard for 4x4 trucks to get through. I walked right through it and even helped a new Grand Cherokee 4x4 with factory 20's and radial tires out of a ditch. I wish I had a picture of it!
Unless you drive through a slalom course on your way to work, then you'll never notice the difference. Won't KDDS do it's job and limit your sway? There is no real way of knowing unless there is a test done on a slalom. My fiance really likes sitting higher than most and seeing traffic issues before the car in front of her. But sitting higher than most isn't for everyone, so I've come full circle, to each their own. Let's remember we aren't driving slim and trim IS F's, but pig bellied 4x4 trucks with nice leather and great sound systems.
I apologize if you or anyone else was offended by my verbiage. It wasn't intended to be a personal attack. I'm passionate about cars, especially the ones I own, as I'm sure you all are. I had to respond to something I felt was wrong. Sorry Koz.
So you HAVE lifted your vehicle, decided you didn't like it because of the "loss in performance" then went back to stock? I ask this because you said you wouldn't post on something you didn't have experience with.
You are correct with regards to center of gravity, but your center of gravity can change when you load up the roof. The changes aren't detrimental and aren't even noticed. Most people will install some wheel spacers to fit a larger tire, this will effectively lower the center of gravity by widening the stance. You can add upper control arms that correct your caster and camber so that all the geometry is back to factory spec.
To simply say "No matter what anyone will tell you, lifting and/or up sizing tires will have a negative effect on the on-road ride/performance." is what I had a BIG problem with. That statement is wrong in so many ways. I was surprised to see it come out of a moderator. It depends on how you lift it. If you just install some 2 inch spacers and crank up the torsion bars as high as they go, then yes, you'll have a wondering erratic vehicle that will no longer be a joy to drive. If you do it right and address the geometry issues then you'll have no issues.
With regards to larger tires...
I say to each their own. Some people like low profile tires on 20" rims. This set up will have a larger negative effect than a 285 tire. You might see an improvement on cornering due to the lower COG, but the quality of ride will suffer due to the lack of sidewall. Also, your turning radius will decrease due to the lack of wheel clearance from lock to lock. If you drive a premuim with crawl control, cameras etc, you have effectively turned a Dakar winner into a mall cruiser. A 285 tire will have some negative effects as well. For instance, your braking distance will increase by a very small margin and your 0 -60 time will drop a bit. Your gas mileage will decrease a bit, but I never got 20mpg with stock tires anyway. Most people that install or want a larger tire want an aggressive tire. Something that will handle whatever situation you throw at it. Case in point - while in SW Colorado on vacation last summer we encountered a flash flood that washed 2" of mud over the road. The road was impassible for cars and hard for 4x4 trucks to get through. I walked right through it and even helped a new Grand Cherokee 4x4 with factory 20's and radial tires out of a ditch. I wish I had a picture of it!
Unless you drive through a slalom course on your way to work, then you'll never notice the difference. Won't KDDS do it's job and limit your sway? There is no real way of knowing unless there is a test done on a slalom. My fiance really likes sitting higher than most and seeing traffic issues before the car in front of her. But sitting higher than most isn't for everyone, so I've come full circle, to each their own. Let's remember we aren't driving slim and trim IS F's, but pig bellied 4x4 trucks with nice leather and great sound systems.
I apologize if you or anyone else was offended by my verbiage. It wasn't intended to be a personal attack. I'm passionate about cars, especially the ones I own, as I'm sure you all are. I had to respond to something I felt was wrong. Sorry Koz.
Nowhere did I advise anyone to do anything. What I did was state the fact that when you lift a vehicle to gain ground clearance (which is important for off-roading) you sacrifice on-road performance. The amount of sacrifice is directly proportional to how far from OEM spec you go.
Yes, I have lifted/lowered and upsized/downsized tires on many types of vehicles (including motorcycles). No, I have not made any changes to the GX’s susp or tires yet. The main use of my GX will be to tow a TT around the country. When I get to my destination I will also do some mild off-roading. For this type of driving I need to be more concerned about towing. This being said, a LT, low rolling resistance highway tire is best (LTXMS2 E-rated). Sidewall strength and staying as close as possible to the OEM overall diameter is very important for towing (the strong sidewall is also better for off-roading). The strong sidewall is important for carrying the extra weight and stabilizing that weight at speed (helps reduce sway). Staying close to the overall diameter will keep the final gear ratio at its optimal OEM designed tow rating. Using a bigger tire will increase the sidewall length (less strength) and less torque.
Some negatives associated with using a larger diameter tire are;
More weight - effects mileage, power needed, steering, braking, increases un-sprung weight/mass, changes compression/rebound dampening (luckily the Premium (AVS) has active computer controlled dampening).
More rotating mass and its location – The worst type of increased rotating mass is when the mass is added to the outer perimeter and/or increasing the overall diameter (weight's distance outwards from the center of wheel). Every time you double the speed of the tire (RPM) you double the amount of energy (energy = HP and braking power) needed to accelerate/stop the wheel/tire. If you double the weight of the wheel (same diameter) you double the energy needed. If you double the diameter (same weight) you need 4 times the energy (and that multiplies every time you double the RPM). Now add weight and diameter! This is why it is VERY important (when replacing wheels) to know where the mass of the wheel is located (did you ever wonder why carbon fiber is used for the rim of very expensive wheels). The better wheels have most of its mass close to the center point. That said, when you increase the overall diameter of the tire and also use a heavier tire, all the extra weight is added in the worst possible place (the perimeter) and the energy needed to accelerate/stop is quadrupled every time the RPM is doubled. This is why depending on how far you deviate from the designed OEM overall diameter and weight the negative effects multiply proportionally. Now if you really want to add to the negatives change the offset of the wheels (add spacers).
Koz
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