Signing off. Decided not to purchase GX460. Wanted to thank u all!
03-13-13, 08:06 AM
#46
That may be true...but we're the ones who buy these vehicles. Without sales to the east and west coasts...there aren't enough sales to sustain the model or the brand.
But, there weren't enough people willing to buy those vehicles to sustain the models, even with all the sales to police, government & livery fleets.
The other concern is safety, as safety regulations get more strict, and fuel economy standards as they become more strict. Body on frame vehicles typically have drawbacks in both categories when compared to more modern unibody designs.
My point is...you're seeing less and less full frame SUVs, as you now see no full frame cars.
But, there weren't enough people willing to buy those vehicles to sustain the models, even with all the sales to police, government & livery fleets.
The other concern is safety, as safety regulations get more strict, and fuel economy standards as they become more strict. Body on frame vehicles typically have drawbacks in both categories when compared to more modern unibody designs.
My point is...you're seeing less and less full frame SUVs, as you now see no full frame cars.
Just my .02
03-13-13, 08:18 AM
#47
Lexus Fanatic
You will, but you're not going to see that type of design across model ranges they can get away with using unibody construction for.
03-13-13, 11:22 AM
#48
Wow at the chart posted ~ I'm surprised Infiniti is so far behind Lexus!
I guess this debate all depends on the end customer. I find the LX570 overly priced for the size. My buddy drives one sometimes and swears he hates it too (it's his dad's car technically) and prefers his H2 over it.
For me, I like my cars low and fast. For SUV's I prefer them big and tough.
We had an RX and though it served it's purpose well, I never liked it as it was just a means of transportation. My workhorse ML on the other hand is one tough truck that can swallow any cargo we've thrown at it and we've moved everything from large sofa's to double framed beds
I hope my future QX56 can do the same!
I guess this debate all depends on the end customer. I find the LX570 overly priced for the size. My buddy drives one sometimes and swears he hates it too (it's his dad's car technically) and prefers his H2 over it.
For me, I like my cars low and fast. For SUV's I prefer them big and tough.
We had an RX and though it served it's purpose well, I never liked it as it was just a means of transportation. My workhorse ML on the other hand is one tough truck that can swallow any cargo we've thrown at it and we've moved everything from large sofa's to double framed beds
I hope my future QX56 can do the same!
03-13-13, 11:44 AM
#49
This forum is hostile to Consumer Reports ... considering how they disparaged the GX 460 when it was released, but hear me out. In their Annual Auto Issue for April 2013, Consumer Reports answered the question of who makes the best cars ... Lexus:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/m...cars/index.htm
As this is a subscription magazine and you may not be able to read the linked article, I will quote the lead paragraph:
"When it comes to making cars, Lexus pushes all of the right buttons: Its luxury models are quiet, comfortable, and fuel efficient, and they’re among the most reliable. That’s quite a feat for a brand whose cars are brimming with technology, such as hybrid drivetrains and complicated infotainment systems. All of that earned Lexus the highest overall score, 79, in our 2013 brand report cards."
Even more impressive ... every Lexus model is recommended. No other brand gets that endorsement. Consumer Reports' bottom line ... "Lexus models are generally quiet, plush, and very reliable, though they’re rarely sporty. Its hybrid technology is impressive."
This is music to my ears, especially as we own only one vehicle, on which we rely exclusively. If it fails to start, we are stranded and if it breaks down, we need to be rescued. Even routine, scheduled service requires a loaner vehicle. Needless to say, our GX 460 ... after three years and 31,000 miles ... has never let us down and our Lexus dealer has always provided reasonable loaner vehicles for any service. For this we gladly pay the "Lexus tax"!
Regards,
SaniDel
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/m...cars/index.htm
As this is a subscription magazine and you may not be able to read the linked article, I will quote the lead paragraph:
"When it comes to making cars, Lexus pushes all of the right buttons: Its luxury models are quiet, comfortable, and fuel efficient, and they’re among the most reliable. That’s quite a feat for a brand whose cars are brimming with technology, such as hybrid drivetrains and complicated infotainment systems. All of that earned Lexus the highest overall score, 79, in our 2013 brand report cards."
Even more impressive ... every Lexus model is recommended. No other brand gets that endorsement. Consumer Reports' bottom line ... "Lexus models are generally quiet, plush, and very reliable, though they’re rarely sporty. Its hybrid technology is impressive."
This is music to my ears, especially as we own only one vehicle, on which we rely exclusively. If it fails to start, we are stranded and if it breaks down, we need to be rescued. Even routine, scheduled service requires a loaner vehicle. Needless to say, our GX 460 ... after three years and 31,000 miles ... has never let us down and our Lexus dealer has always provided reasonable loaner vehicles for any service. For this we gladly pay the "Lexus tax"!
Regards,
SaniDel
Last edited by SaniDel; 03-13-13 at 04:53 PM.
03-14-13, 07:09 AM
#50
While I agree on seeing less full framed SUV's you will continue to see them for the families that tow boats, campers or other type trailers for family vacation / holidays and the unibodies just can't tow 8-10,000 pounds safely plus a family inside of it. Myself, coming out of a Tahoe for many years, I miss the size and towing of the Tahoe compared to the GX. Not complaining about rhe GX as it is a great vehicle, it's just not the truck that I have been used to since 1999.
Just my .02
Just my .02
Koz
03-14-13, 09:18 AM
#51
Lexus Fanatic
For instance a Jeep Grand Cherokee with the V8 or the Diesel will tow 7,400 lbs and its unibody, so don't automatically assume that just because something is a full frame it will tow more.
03-14-13, 11:49 AM
#52
Koz
03-14-13, 01:50 PM
#53
Lexus Fanatic
Actually the Jeep has a curb weight of 4,995lbs and the GX has a curb weight of 5,128 lbs. So the GX is 133 lbs heavier, not 800.
It has a higher tow rating despite being unibody, thats my point.
It has a higher tow rating despite being unibody, thats my point.
03-14-13, 06:18 PM
#54
I understand your point about a unibody vehicle not having a lower tow rating (and agree). The design of the chassis/frame doesn't dictate the tow rating. The drive train and weight of the vehicle are more important factors. The chassis and frame will have a big effect on stability when towing. Between the silky smooth 4.6/6 speed/3.9 rear and the susp components (KDSS, AVS and auto leveling air springs) the GX is an extremely stable and comfortable tow vehicle. I think the extra weight also helps.
Koz
03-14-13, 08:06 PM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
The JGC models that have a 7400 lbs tow rating are V6 2WD (except the V8) and they weigh from 4533 to 4725 lbs. The Premium GX weighs 5340 lbs. (Base 5305 lbs.). If buying the JGC for towing, the thirsty V8 and the more efficient V6 offer the same tow rating. I'm sure the V8 will be working a lot less but it is overkill for its tow rating. Some would be willing to sacrifice the gas for the extra power.
I'm not sure what I was looking at on Edmunds where I got that other curb weight, but you are correct they are showing 5,305.
You can say the Jeep's V8 is thirsty, but its no thirstier than the GX's...
I understand your point about a unibody vehicle not having a lower tow rating (and agree). The design of the chassis/frame doesn't dictate the tow rating.
03-15-13, 05:41 AM
#56
Koz
03-22-13, 07:27 AM
#57
Arguably this is less likely to happen to a GX due to a full time 4WD but it begs the question -- is there a limit in a situation like this where a more aggressive VSC can prevent this? And it also shows that in order to put VSC into a tricky situation you don't really need to be (trying) doing donuts.
03-22-13, 05:01 PM
#58
You are missing my point, Quadro. Consumer Reports thinks Lexus makes the best cars ... period. Granted, they disparaged the GX 460 when it was first released because of how the VSC responded in an emergency situation, but after Toyota acknowledged the problem, halted sales and reprogrammed the VSC software all was forgiven and the GX is on Consumer Reports' 'Recommended' list ... as is every Lexus model, which no other brand can claim.
With regard to this ghastly video ... yes, there is a limit to what VSC can do to "save us from ourselves". There wasn't much that the VSC could do here ... between excessive speed, extreme weather, passing a slower vehicle and hitting the snow berm separating oncoming traffic ... well, the term "suicide by vehicle" seems appropriate!
Regards,
SaniDel
P.S. The unfortunate vehicle in this video is a Nissan Navara, a.k.a. a Frontier, which is a pick-up truck:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D40_Navara#D40_Navara
How much of the VSC could we expect on a Russian pick-up truck, especially one with a "camper" in the truck bed? About the only thing I can see that was done right was that the driver didn't hit the brakes as the lights didn't go bright when the vehicle fish-tailed. Attempting to "drive through" is a better solution than braking, but all bets were off after he hit the truck he was passing.
With regard to this ghastly video ... yes, there is a limit to what VSC can do to "save us from ourselves". There wasn't much that the VSC could do here ... between excessive speed, extreme weather, passing a slower vehicle and hitting the snow berm separating oncoming traffic ... well, the term "suicide by vehicle" seems appropriate!
Regards,
SaniDel
P.S. The unfortunate vehicle in this video is a Nissan Navara, a.k.a. a Frontier, which is a pick-up truck:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D40_Navara#D40_Navara
How much of the VSC could we expect on a Russian pick-up truck, especially one with a "camper" in the truck bed? About the only thing I can see that was done right was that the driver didn't hit the brakes as the lights didn't go bright when the vehicle fish-tailed. Attempting to "drive through" is a better solution than braking, but all bets were off after he hit the truck he was passing.
I guess it depends how to look at it... Look at this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TeZJ5EqOd0
Arguably this is less likely to happen to a GX due to a full time 4WD but it begs the question -- is there a limit in a situation like this where a more aggressive VSC can prevent this? And it also shows that in order to put VSC into a tricky situation you don't really need to be (trying) doing donuts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TeZJ5EqOd0
Arguably this is less likely to happen to a GX due to a full time 4WD but it begs the question -- is there a limit in a situation like this where a more aggressive VSC can prevent this? And it also shows that in order to put VSC into a tricky situation you don't really need to be (trying) doing donuts.
Last edited by SaniDel; 03-22-13 at 06:53 PM.
03-26-13, 12:00 PM
#60
If you enter a turn at a speed where even the tires are losing traction there is NO VSC that can keep the vehicle from losing control. It was in the best interest of Lexus to simply adjust the system to kick in sooner. Was it needed? Hmm
I personally think that CR was in a bad situation where they were praising almost all Toyota vehicles and customers and publications were making comments about CR being bias and giving the GX a kick in the nuts stopped and the talk! Again, my personal feelings. I had no respect for CR before this because of their recommendations on even common appliances that turned out to be a POS.
I find that owner/customer’s reviews are a lot more accurate in determining the quality of a product!
Koz
I personally think that CR was in a bad situation where they were praising almost all Toyota vehicles and customers and publications were making comments about CR being bias and giving the GX a kick in the nuts stopped and the talk! Again, my personal feelings. I had no respect for CR before this because of their recommendations on even common appliances that turned out to be a POS.
I find that owner/customer’s reviews are a lot more accurate in determining the quality of a product!
Koz
Last edited by Koz; 03-26-13 at 12:04 PM.