Consumer Reports GX 460 safety warning (4/13 sales halted; 4/19 recall)
04-13-10, 03:08 PM
#31
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I will be anxious to hear their response. Please do post back once you hear something.
04-13-10, 03:35 PM
#32
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It is all over the media now. This will certainly hamper sales as many people do rely on the opinion of CR in their vehicle decision.
Additionally, many people do not know nor care to learn how to handle a vehicle that has lost it's rear end. Remember, very few owners take their SUV off road (I did just yesterday
).
Mike is correct that the GX470/Prada are beaten up pretty good overseas and handle it well. This is a situation where traction control is turned off anyhow. But...again, how many people take it offroad?
The GX460 has a big footprint to fill and this is not a good start.
Additionally, many people do not know nor care to learn how to handle a vehicle that has lost it's rear end. Remember, very few owners take their SUV off road (I did just yesterday
). Mike is correct that the GX470/Prada are beaten up pretty good overseas and handle it well. This is a situation where traction control is turned off anyhow. But...again, how many people take it offroad?
The GX460 has a big footprint to fill and this is not a good start.
The issue is driver eduction or rather LACK OF IT.
At this rate the people that rather be on the phone than driving are going to think cars are deathtraps based on the news.
It is clear Lexus took this serious as they responded right away to CR.
04-13-10, 04:03 PM
#33
Toyota suspend sales of new GX460
There is no end in sight for Toyota issues. Now Consumer Reports gives the new GX460 a "Don't Buy" rating. This article is all over the news:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36457556/ns/business-autos/
Watch the video at:
http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2010...cnn=yes&hpt=C2
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36457556/ns/business-autos/
Watch the video at:
http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2010...cnn=yes&hpt=C2
04-13-10, 04:11 PM
#34
Lexus Test Driver
Simple? As a one-time software engineer I can assure you that a one-word patch to a complex software system can be devestating and completely crash the system. Whatever they do, I certainly hope they don't rush to deploy the fix without thoroughly testing it. Toyota/Lexus can't afford another one of these.......
04-13-10, 04:12 PM
#35
Sales
WASHINGTON – Toyota Motor Corp. is temporarily halting sales of the 2010 Lexus GX 460 after Consumer Reports issued a rare "Don't Buy" warning amid concerns the large SUV has handling problems that could cause it to roll over during sharp turns.
The Japanese automaker said Tuesday it had asked dealers to temporarily suspend sales of the SUV while it conducts its own tests on the GX 460.
"We are taking the situation with the GX 460 very seriously and are determined to identify and correct the issue Consumer Reports identified," said Mark Templin, Lexus vice president and general manager.
The decision to stop selling the SUV is the latest blow to Toyota's tarnished safety reputation after the recall of millions of cars and trucks over gas pedals that are too slow to retract or that can become stuck under floor mats. The GX 460 is not covered by the pedal recalls.
Toyota said about 6,000 have been sold since the vehicle went on sale in late December.
Consumer Reports is closely read by many car buyers before choosing a new car or truck. In January, it pulled its "recommended" rating on eight vehicles recalled by the automaker due to faulty gas pedals.
The magazine said the Lexus problem occurred during tests on its track. In a standard test, the driver approached a turn unusually fast, then released the accelerator pedal to simulate the response of an alarmed driver. This caused the rear of the vehicle to slide outward.
In normal cases, the electronic stability control should quickly correct the loss of control and keep the SUV on its intended path. But with the GX 460, the stability control took too long to adjust, which could cause a rollover accident if one of the sliding wheels were to strike the curb or another obstacle, said Gabriel Shenhar, Consumer Reports' senior auto test engineer who was one of four testers who experienced the problem.
The magazine said it is not aware of any reports of the GX 460 rolling over. It tested two separate vehicles, both of which experienced the problem, but neither rolled over.
The warning label on the model will remain until Toyota addresses the handling issue with the seven-seat SUV.
Templin said in a statement he was "confident that the GX meets our high safety standards" and said Toyota's engineering teams were testing the GX using Consumer Reports' specific parameters. Lexus will provide a loaner car for any customer who bought a 2010 GX 460 and is concerned about driving the vehicle, Templin said.
Customers who have questions or concerns about the GX 460 can call Lexus at (800) 255-3987.
The "Don't Buy" label is unlikely to hurt Toyota's broader sales since the GX 460 accounts for a fraction of its total, said Erich Merkle, president of the consulting company Autoconomy.com in Grand Rapids, Mich. However, it comes at an unfortunate time as the automaker tries to move beyond the recalls.
"I think it will have a bigger impact from a negative-PR perspective than from an actual sales perspective," Merkle said.
The GX 460, which starts at about $52,000, is built on the same platform as the Toyota 4Runner. However, Consumer Reports said the problem did not occur during similar tests on the 4Runner. According to Toyota's Web site, both vehicles are about six feet tall but the GX 460 is about 3 inches taller.
Consumer Reports said the last vehicle to receive such a safety warning was the 2001 Mitsubishi Montero Limited, a large SUV. In that case, testers said the wheels lifted off the road during standard avoidance-maneuver tests, which also posed a rollover risk.
At the time, Mitsubishi disputed the magazine's findings and did not make any modifications to the vehicle, Mitsubishi spokesman Dan Irvin said. The designation appeared to have little effect on the Montero's sales, which increased overall during the second half of 2001.
The Montero remained on sale in the U.S. until 2007 and continues to be sold overseas as the Mitsubishi Pajero.
04-13-10, 04:16 PM
#36
Lexus Test Driver
Way to go Toyota! Throwing in the towel even before the first punch was thrown is quite telling and obviously you have no confidence in your products and, therefore, why should we? On the other hand, there's been a very obvious move from within the current administration and elsewhere to "bolster" the position of the US automakers as evidenced by the extraordinary attacks on the Japanese-based automaker.
04-13-10, 04:24 PM
#37
WASHINGTON – Toyota Motor Corp. is temporarily halting sales of the 2010 Lexus GX 460 after Consumer Reports issued a rare "Don't Buy" warning amid concerns the large SUV has handling problems that could cause it to roll over during sharp turns.
The Japanese automaker said Tuesday it had asked dealers to temporarily suspend sales of the SUV while it conducts its own tests on the GX 460.
"We are taking the situation with the GX 460 very seriously and are determined to identify and correct the issue Consumer Reports identified," said Mark Templin, Lexus vice president and general manager.
The decision to stop selling the SUV is the latest blow to Toyota's tarnished safety reputation after the recall of millions of cars and trucks over gas pedals that are too slow to retract or that can become stuck under floor mats. The GX 460 is not covered by the pedal recalls.
Toyota said about 6,000 have been sold since the vehicle went on sale in late December.
Consumer Reports is closely read by many car buyers before choosing a new car or truck. In January, it pulled its "recommended" rating on eight vehicles recalled by the automaker due to faulty gas pedals.
The magazine said the Lexus problem occurred during tests on its track. In a standard test, the driver approached a turn unusually fast, then released the accelerator pedal to simulate the response of an alarmed driver. This caused the rear of the vehicle to slide outward.
In normal cases, the electronic stability control should quickly correct the loss of control and keep the SUV on its intended path. But with the GX 460, the stability control took too long to adjust, which could cause a rollover accident if one of the sliding wheels were to strike the curb or another obstacle, said Gabriel Shenhar, Consumer Reports' senior auto test engineer who was one of four testers who experienced the problem.
The magazine said it is not aware of any reports of the GX 460 rolling over. It tested two separate vehicles, both of which experienced the problem, but neither rolled over.
The warning label on the model will remain until Toyota addresses the handling issue with the seven-seat SUV.
Templin said in a statement he was "confident that the GX meets our high safety standards" and said Toyota's engineering teams were testing the GX using Consumer Reports' specific parameters. Lexus will provide a loaner car for any customer who bought a 2010 GX 460 and is concerned about driving the vehicle, Templin said.
Customers who have questions or concerns about the GX 460 can call Lexus at (800) 255-3987.
The "Don't Buy" label is unlikely to hurt Toyota's broader sales since the GX 460 accounts for a fraction of its total, said Erich Merkle, president of the consulting company Autoconomy.com in Grand Rapids, Mich. However, it comes at an unfortunate time as the automaker tries to move beyond the recalls.
"I think it will have a bigger impact from a negative-PR perspective than from an actual sales perspective," Merkle said.
The GX 460, which starts at about $52,000, is built on the same platform as the Toyota 4Runner. However, Consumer Reports said the problem did not occur during similar tests on the 4Runner. According to Toyota's Web site, both vehicles are about six feet tall but the GX 460 is about 3 inches taller.
Consumer Reports said the last vehicle to receive such a safety warning was the 2001 Mitsubishi Montero Limited, a large SUV. In that case, testers said the wheels lifted off the road during standard avoidance-maneuver tests, which also posed a rollover risk.
At the time, Mitsubishi disputed the magazine's findings and did not make any modifications to the vehicle, Mitsubishi spokesman Dan Irvin said. The designation appeared to have little effect on the Montero's sales, which increased overall during the second half of 2001.
The Montero remained on sale in the U.S. until 2007 and continues to be sold overseas as the Mitsubishi Pajero.
04-13-10, 04:28 PM
#38
Their response will impress CR. Fact is, sure we may not drive like that in 'normal' situations, but traction control is there for emergencies and most people jerk the steering wheel when confronted with an obstacle in front of them instead of just hitting it.
This is the concern here as the traction control kicks in far too late to be of any use and almost everyone out there can benefit from it's usefulness in an emergency situation.
My concern is that another Toyota product being introduced by the bean counters and no longer do the engineers have much of a say so prior to rushing products to the sales floor. Or at least it seems.I guarantee there will be more Toyota/Lexus products hitting the media in the same manner as everyone is already sensitive to the company and it's issues.
This is the concern here as the traction control kicks in far too late to be of any use and almost everyone out there can benefit from it's usefulness in an emergency situation.
My concern is that another Toyota product being introduced by the bean counters and no longer do the engineers have much of a say so prior to rushing products to the sales floor. Or at least it seems.I guarantee there will be more Toyota/Lexus products hitting the media in the same manner as everyone is already sensitive to the company and it's issues.
04-13-10, 04:44 PM
#39
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover
you'll want to scroll down to the "quality" section
And for the topic in general. Though I agree that the GX460 VSC does not react within an adequate time frame (per the video), I would be curious to know when exactly people will take any accountability or responsibility for there own driving ability or lack there of. The "DRIVER" not the vehicle puts themselves into "evasive" situations. Im staring at the sun visor above the drivers head on the GX460 and it says "HIGHER ROLLOVER RISK" AVOID HIGHER SPEEDS AND ABRUPT MANUEVERS. So how about folks go back to driving their cars and trucks like the safety devices aren't going to save them.
If you drive ANY car in "real world situations" where you are violating the "basic speed law" and something bad happens to you then guess what. ITS YOUR FAULT! Whats next, LX570 owner tailgates a Ducati Motorcycle, Ducati rider slams on brakes because he is cut off, LX570 owner runs down the motorcycle and kills the rider. Knowing that a sportbike can out-brake any vehicle out there I can still hear it now "My brakes didn't work good enough, my emergency brake assist didn't activate fast enough, etc etc...
We as a society have become far to dependent on our gadgets.
If someone drives the way the "test driver" is driving that GX460 and rolls, the only tragedy is that instead of getting a Darwin Award he will be saved by the GX460's ten airbags and will still be out driving recklessly the next day.
04-13-10, 04:45 PM
#40
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100413/...nsumer_reports
This is good news for current owners, frustrating for owners-to-be ... especially for those with units on order, but a non-event in the long run. Those who got the first 5,000 GX 460's will have even longer to enjoy the exclusivity that an extremely uncommon vehicle provides. I guess there may even be an opportunity for current owners to make some money by re-selling, but the opportunity is vanishing. The only negative is to avoid the extreme, high-speed maneuvers performed by Consumer Reports ... I don't drive that way, do you?
Toyota is likely to do a recall to re-calibrate whatever software needs to be tweaked to satisfy Consumer Reports and the Feds, just like they did for sticking gas pedals, regenerative brakes and other recent matters. Current owners may expect to receive a lot of attention from their dealerships, a free car wash and a tank of gas when their GX 460 is in for the recall. Once that is underway ... and it will be done quickly ... this issue will vanish as far as owners are concerned although Toyota may get fined or even sued, especially if someone wrecks their GX460, even if intentionally as several Toyota owners have done.
Perhaps we should ask the question ... what would we expect? The GX 460 is a substantially new design, little has been carried over from the GX 470 and Toyota has slathered it with more bells and whistles than any model other than the LS. Would we expect the launch of such a complex new model to be completely free of incident? I think not ... the only difference here is that a problem was caught by someone other than Toyota. Embarrassing ... yes, but unexpected ... no.
Regards,
SaniDel
This is good news for current owners, frustrating for owners-to-be ... especially for those with units on order, but a non-event in the long run. Those who got the first 5,000 GX 460's will have even longer to enjoy the exclusivity that an extremely uncommon vehicle provides. I guess there may even be an opportunity for current owners to make some money by re-selling, but the opportunity is vanishing. The only negative is to avoid the extreme, high-speed maneuvers performed by Consumer Reports ... I don't drive that way, do you?
Toyota is likely to do a recall to re-calibrate whatever software needs to be tweaked to satisfy Consumer Reports and the Feds, just like they did for sticking gas pedals, regenerative brakes and other recent matters. Current owners may expect to receive a lot of attention from their dealerships, a free car wash and a tank of gas when their GX 460 is in for the recall. Once that is underway ... and it will be done quickly ... this issue will vanish as far as owners are concerned although Toyota may get fined or even sued, especially if someone wrecks their GX460, even if intentionally as several Toyota owners have done.
Perhaps we should ask the question ... what would we expect? The GX 460 is a substantially new design, little has been carried over from the GX 470 and Toyota has slathered it with more bells and whistles than any model other than the LS. Would we expect the launch of such a complex new model to be completely free of incident? I think not ... the only difference here is that a problem was caught by someone other than Toyota. Embarrassing ... yes, but unexpected ... no.
Regards,
SaniDel
04-13-10, 04:52 PM
#41
Loaner vehicles
From AP (excerpt):
Templin said in a statement he was "confident that the GX meets our high safety standards" and said Toyota’s engineering teams were testing the GX using Consumer Reports’ specific parameters. Lexus will provide a loaner car for any customer who bought a 2010 GX 460 and is concerned about driving the vehicle, Templin said.
Templin said in a statement he was "confident that the GX meets our high safety standards" and said Toyota’s engineering teams were testing the GX using Consumer Reports’ specific parameters. Lexus will provide a loaner car for any customer who bought a 2010 GX 460 and is concerned about driving the vehicle, Templin said.
04-13-10, 05:15 PM
#42
Your only happy with Land Rover because its brand new. Not trying to beat you up or get off topic but for someone that posts a comment on a thread based on a Consumer Report, I find it ironic that you are putting your faith in a product (LR) that has been dead last or second to dead last in quality per Consumer Reports over the entire last decade.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover
you'll want to scroll down to the "quality" section
And for the topic in general. Though I agree that the GX460 VSC does not react within an adequate time frame (per the video), I would be curious to know when exactly people will take any accountability or responsibility for there own driving ability or lack there of. The "DRIVER" not the vehicle puts themselves into "evasive" situations. Im staring at the sun visor above the drivers head on the GX460 and it says "HIGHER ROLLOVER RISK" AVOID HIGHER SPEEDS AND ABRUPT MANUEVERS. So how about folks go back to driving their cars and trucks like the safety devices aren't going to save them.
If you drive ANY car in "real world situations" where you are violating the "basic speed law" and something bad happens to you then guess what. ITS YOUR FAULT! Whats next, LX570 owner tailgates a Ducati Motorcycle, Ducati rider slams on brakes because he is cut off, LX570 owner runs down the motorcycle and kills the rider. Knowing that a sportbike can out-brake any vehicle out there I can still hear it now "My brakes didn't work good enough, my emergency brake assist didn't activate fast enough, etc etc...
We as a society have become far to dependent on our gadgets.
If someone drives the way the "test driver" is driving that GX460 and rolls, the only tragedy is that instead of getting a Darwin Award he will be saved by the GX460's ten airbags and will still be out driving recklessly the next day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover
you'll want to scroll down to the "quality" section
And for the topic in general. Though I agree that the GX460 VSC does not react within an adequate time frame (per the video), I would be curious to know when exactly people will take any accountability or responsibility for there own driving ability or lack there of. The "DRIVER" not the vehicle puts themselves into "evasive" situations. Im staring at the sun visor above the drivers head on the GX460 and it says "HIGHER ROLLOVER RISK" AVOID HIGHER SPEEDS AND ABRUPT MANUEVERS. So how about folks go back to driving their cars and trucks like the safety devices aren't going to save them.
If you drive ANY car in "real world situations" where you are violating the "basic speed law" and something bad happens to you then guess what. ITS YOUR FAULT! Whats next, LX570 owner tailgates a Ducati Motorcycle, Ducati rider slams on brakes because he is cut off, LX570 owner runs down the motorcycle and kills the rider. Knowing that a sportbike can out-brake any vehicle out there I can still hear it now "My brakes didn't work good enough, my emergency brake assist didn't activate fast enough, etc etc...
We as a society have become far to dependent on our gadgets.
If someone drives the way the "test driver" is driving that GX460 and rolls, the only tragedy is that instead of getting a Darwin Award he will be saved by the GX460's ten airbags and will still be out driving recklessly the next day.
There are plenty of instances where someone can find themselves in a situation beyond their control and need to rely on the 'gadgets' to protect themselves. Either you do not drive much or in a loosely populated where you do not have to be concerned with other drivers.
Though I agree that society as a whole could use a bit of a slap in terms of accepting personal responsibility, fate rarely occurs at our choosing. If you an I were driving towards each other and I swerved right into you for whatever reason, it that your fault?
These 'gadgets' do save lives-when they work.
Based on your argument, do you wear seat belts? Have you deactivated your airbags? Why and why not? Traction control is no different. If you have the ability to control destiny you are a far better person that I.
Last edited by Pearlpower; 04-13-10 at 05:59 PM.
04-13-10, 05:20 PM
#43
(this wasn't directed at you in particular, it's directed to everyone who is freaking out and who is thinking of refusing to drive the car.) Chill. They'll find a fix and fix it.
04-13-10, 05:22 PM
#44
And for the topic in general. Though I agree that the GX460 VSC does not react within an adequate time frame (per the video), I would be curious to know when exactly people will take any accountability or responsibility for there own driving ability or lack there of. The "DRIVER" not the vehicle puts themselves into "evasive" situations. Im staring at the sun visor above the drivers head on the GX460 and it says "HIGHER ROLLOVER RISK" AVOID HIGHER SPEEDS AND ABRUPT MANUEVERS. So how about folks go back to driving their cars and trucks like the safety devices aren't going to save them.
If you drive ANY car in "real world situations" where you are violating the "basic speed law" and something bad happens to you then guess what. ITS YOUR FAULT! Whats next, LX570 owner tailgates a Ducati Motorcycle, Ducati rider slams on brakes because he is cut off, LX570 owner runs down the motorcycle and kills the rider. Knowing that a sportbike can out-brake any vehicle out there I can still hear it now "My brakes didn't work good enough, my emergency brake assist didn't activate fast enough, etc etc...
We as a society have become far to dependent on our gadgets.
If someone drives the way the "test driver" is driving that GX460 and rolls, the only tragedy is that instead of getting a Darwin Award he will be saved by the GX460's ten airbags and will still be out driving recklessly the next day.
If you drive ANY car in "real world situations" where you are violating the "basic speed law" and something bad happens to you then guess what. ITS YOUR FAULT! Whats next, LX570 owner tailgates a Ducati Motorcycle, Ducati rider slams on brakes because he is cut off, LX570 owner runs down the motorcycle and kills the rider. Knowing that a sportbike can out-brake any vehicle out there I can still hear it now "My brakes didn't work good enough, my emergency brake assist didn't activate fast enough, etc etc...
We as a society have become far to dependent on our gadgets.
If someone drives the way the "test driver" is driving that GX460 and rolls, the only tragedy is that instead of getting a Darwin Award he will be saved by the GX460's ten airbags and will still be out driving recklessly the next day.
04-13-10, 05:25 PM
#45
It has temporarily become a sellers' market as those who still have faith in Lexus and Toyota have no option, but to buy used. If 5,000 bought the GX 460 ... including you ... it should be a simple matter to find the 5,001st buyer. Hint: start with those on our forum who announced that they have placed orders for the GX 460, but are now having to wait for sales to resume.
However, you better move fast ... if Toyota moves as quickly on this matter as they did on their other recalls, you have little time to find a buyer ... look at how quickly Lexus resumed production of models affected by recent recalls:
http://www.lexus.com/recall/index.html
Good luck with your sale!
Regards.
SaniDel
P.S. I'm keeping my GX 460 ... and I don't need a loaner.