malmon

Most American familes own more than one vehicle, so don't think your perspective is unique just because you used to have a 4runner.

We currently own a Honda Pilot, one advantage it has over our GX is the rear lift hatch. It is ideal for loading stuff in the back, be it at the airport or grocery store. If you are going to load packages that you can carry with one hand, then the side swinging door is fine, but imagine loading a heavy box/item with two persons lifting it into the back, one on each side, the side swinging door will get in the way. Another scanario, when you are at a crowded airport arrival area like LAX, you cannot just yell at the person behind you to park farther than usual because you are driving a lexus GX and you need extra room to load stuff in the back because of the side swinging rear door.

A suggestion, if you do not have one yet, I suggest you get a cargo organizer/net so things do not roll around in the back or fall when you open the rear hatch/door.

malmon

Who knows, maybe after reading this thread Lexus decides to design a rear door that can lift up as well as open from either side. With hinges on the top and on both sides, depending on which button you push, two hinges will release leaving one intact to open in the desired manner: up, to the left or to the right. Lexus should pay me for this idea.

Luke27617

iTrader: (2)

I just got this. Fits nicely in the back. Stuff moving around and scratching walls was ennoying.
http://www.amazon.com/Rola-59001-M-O...1867226&sr=8-3

dgsvt

What manufacturer has done that before?.?.?... Hmmmm... Let me think... Toyota... No it couldn't be Toyota. Well yes... The FJ Cruiser has the hinge on the drivers side.

No, it isn't that way on the Prado or the Rav4, but the FJ Cruiser's hinge is on the left and opens away from the sidewalk. Now why would they do that?

Could it be that the FJ Cruiser was designed for the US market? I can't think of any other reasons that the Rav4 and the FJ Cruiser would swing in opposite directions... Can anyone else think of why they would swing in opposite directions? I know that Toyota had a well thought out plan for the swing direction so why would it be different on the RAV4 vs the FJ Cruiser...

dbacf

My 1972 oldsmobile station wagon had a swing out tail gate that also dropped down depending on what button you pressed.

The glass alos retracted into the door when you cranked the handle!

dgsvt

I didn't want anyone to think Toyota with the FJ Cruiser was the only company with a swing gate with the hinge on the drivers side. I have to add to the list:

Toyota - FJ Cruiser
Mercedes - G-Wagon (G550 and G63amg)
Nissan - Cube
Hummer - H3

All of these have have swing gates that open in the opposite direction of the GX.

My rear hatch preference is similar to Sanidel:
1. Split gate
2. Lift gate

then the don't want it, but could probably deal with it option:

3. Swing gate with hinge on drivers side

and a distant last, if it was the only problem with the SUV and I just had to have the truck and could somehow look beyond the rear gate... option:

4. Swing gate with hinge on passengers side

I just don't understand how people don't think this door gets in the way and is a complete inconvience. A power split gate or power liftgate is the best option and I don't believe it would hurt rear seat headroom at all. I'm sure the motors can be placed in such a way that it doesn't cut headroom. Besides how many 6ft adults are sitting in the 3rd row anyway. Have you seen the leg room back there... Sorry I don't see the problem with packaging a power split-gate or a liftgate except for the added cost due to the Prado having the swing-gate. Thinking about added cost... How much would it cost to change to a split gate in the GX... (with a price increase of 10-15K wasn't there enough room in the budget to change the tailgate to a splitgate like the LX. Lexus already has the design just fit it to the GX)

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

Interesting list. Not saying that it proves anything about a rear gate because it doesn't, but few if any of those have been too successful in the market, sales wise. Of course there are plenty of other reasons, perhaps including the following:

Toyota - FJ Cruiser-- bad timing, answer to a question nobody much asked
Mercedes - G-Wagon --outrageously expensive and quite quirky (I have come close to buying one though)
Nissan - Cube -- me-too scion clone,
Hummer - H3 -- People generally aren't THAT gullible

dgsvt

Interesting comparison (which arm would you choose to be amputated), but it's an effective comparison.

I don't want a swing gate at all (split gate would be best), but it wouldn't be as big of a deal breaker for me if it swung to the left away from the sidewalk instead of the way it swings now.

I6turbo... What would you think of the GX460 if the swing gate had the hinge on the drivers side? I wonder if you would feel differently about the liftgate or split gate since you obviously prefer a swing gate with the hinge on the passenger side. Would you prefer a swing gate from either direction over the lift/split gate?

I also agree that the problem with the FJ Cruiser wasn't the swing gate, but as you said "Bad timing, answer to a question nobody much asked". It could also be the triple front windshield wipers. The FJ is the only car that I've seen with three front wiper blades.

I think in America most people who are buying in this price range want a lift/split gate vs. swing gate in either direction. This is evident by the poll that shows an 80% vs 20% preference to a liftgate.

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

I prefer the right-swinging gate over all because it works best for me 95+% of the times I need to open the rear gate. My loading needs are mostly groceries, kid's gear, and small packages which are conveniently loaded from the driver side (hence my right-swinging preference), and I can easily open the gate even with a bag of groceries hanging from my hand. Also, my young kids sometimes need to open the gate and they wouldn't be able to open a manual lift gate and wouldn't be able to close a power gate if the button were on the gate. If the truck had a left-swinging rear gate I wouldn't have cared that much but I would have thought it strange and often requiring a few extra steps. I very, very rarely have occasion to parallel park so I probably wouldn't have recognized the minor advantage of curb-opening.

All that said, I would still buy the vehicle even if it had any of the gate options -- lift, split, or swinging either direction. The GX is one of my favorite vehicles ever (well, the GX470 is -- I trust that the 460 isn't a step backwards, but I haven't driven either the 460 or 4Runner yet). I've owned about 40 vehicles so far and I have a hobby as well as a job that results in me driving almost every mainstream vehilcle made for the past 20+ years, and I still like the GX (470 at least) better than any other similar vehicle.

It would be interesting to know why the FJ hasn't sold that well. The triple wipers are certainly unique, but they don't seem really out of place on a somewhat "strange" vehicle like the FJ. I like the FJ for what it is, though. The FJ and the Honda Ridgeline are two vehicles that I wouldn't mind having, but I certainly wouldn't trade the GX for either of them.

I think this poll among a small number of enthusiasts (enthusiast enough to find this forum and make posts, at least) may be too limited to be trusted too far, and I wonder if everyone has voted, or mostly those who feel inclined to voice their objection. Nevertheless, 80/20 even among a special group is pretty big, and I agree that most people probably expect a power lift gate in vehicles like this nowadays. I wonder how much of it is the power part, and how much is the direction of the opening?

SaniDel

There is one obvious reason why the FJ hasn't sold that well ... Consumer Reports panned it! Yes, the same organization that "told the world" not to buy the GX 460 has a very low opinion of the Toyota FJ Cruiser, although they have not recommended against buying it:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...r/overview.htm

"The FJ's styling echoes the rugged early FJ40 Land Cruisers. While its off-road prowess is superb, the FJ is full of compromises. Visibility is horrendous, and the rear-hinged rear doors provide poor cabin access and are difficult to close. The FJ has clumsy handling and can be disconcerting at its limits, although the standard stability control keeps it secure enough. The ride is compliant but jiggly. The V6 powertrain is smooth and punchy, but returned just 17 mpg overall. While crash-test results and reliability are impressive, the FJ scores too low in our testing to be recommended."

I'm not claiming that CR is totally to blame for the FJ's failure in the market ... the FJ did that itself. What I am claiming is that CR's ratings have a significant and perhaps disproportionate influence on the market. In general, CR's top-rated products sell well and their bottom-rated products don't ... especially for mass-market vehicles. The more exotic and the smaller the market, the less influence CR exerts.

Here's CR's "Best and Worst Cars" list ... the Lexus LS 460L scored 99, the Toyota FJ cruiser scored 36 (tied with the Chevrolet Aveo LT) ... the 'best' and the 'worst' of Toyota products. However, it gets even worse than that ... the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara scored 17.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...d-worst-ov.htm

Regards,

SaniDel

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

Certainly a factor, but I think that may be giving CR too much credit for directing people on what to buy, especially with a niche vehicle like the FJ. And there's a bit of the chicken-or-egg thing with regard to CR's top-rated vehicles selling well and bottom-rated vehicles not selling well. If the vehicle makes a good impression, it's generally going to make a good impresson on the public who evaluate it for their potential purchase as well as CR who evaluates it for review, so the fact that it sells well isn't caused by the CR review. If it were, it seems you'd have vehicles being launched and sitting on the dealer lots until CR could get around to doing their review and telling people whether or not to buy it.

I don't know what Toyota's sales goals were for the FJ, but I'd bet they weren't acheived, due to whatever factors. According to R.L. Polk they did about 110K units in the U.S. through mid-2008. On the other hand, they shouldn't have had overly high expectations for such a "strange" bird in the first place.

dgsvt

A power swing gate... Like power door closers... Hmmm, No I don't think that would be that big of an improvement. In this price range (55K-70K), I think most shoppers expect a power lift gate or split gate. I wonder how many people bought the GX without even knowing that it had a swing gate and only found out when trying to put something back there.

Now I have read online and heard from some people at the Lexus Dealership that:

"Lexus fixed the biggest complaint about the GX470 with the addition of the lift up glass in the GX460."

The problem with this statement is that the complaint was about the swing gate and not that the glass in the hatch didn't lift. The addition of the lift glass makes the swing gate a bit less horrible, but it still doesn't fix the problem of the swing gate. The same would be true if the swing gate was hinged on the drivers side... It would be a little less horrible, but wouldn't solve the problem of it having a swing gate. What's wrong with the lift glass? I'm 6ft and with the height of the window opening I can barely reach in without getting all dirty. Forget it if you are 5'5"... Completely useless if you are 5'2" or less...

akfd

Actually the glass hitch works quite well for me, but I'm one of those weird people out there; I'm 6'1" but my arms are longer than average six-footers (I have to custom-make dress shirts so they will fit me properly), so I have no problems reaching down and getting things in the cargo area, without getting myself dirty. I totally agree with dgsvt that if you're under 5'2" the glass hatch is of no use. I think for Lexus to attract customers in a broad spectrum, they should have fitted a power liftgate, or a split gate so people of all heights - and possibly people with a disability (I'm NOT joking here) - to operate the rear door with ease.

dgsvt

Thank you... Totally agree with akfd...

encore888

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