jdemoors

Over the past week, after driving our GX470 about 3-4 times (each time for at least 10 minutes), when my wife would turn off the car, then try to start it back up within a few minutes afterward (i.e. running errands), it wouldn't turn on. Not even a click when turning the key in the ignition.

We last replaced the battery 9/2012, and brought it back to that shop on Fri afternoon to make sure it was still in good condition. The technician said the CCA's were still solid, and said it could be the starter/solenoid (bad contacts), problems with electrical relays, or the ignition assembly.

Back on 2/2012 we had the starter/solenoid replaced with a Bosch SR3256X...so it's hard to believe that would have failed already.

When leaving the shop on Fri, in stop and go traffic, my wife then said the car quit on her while driving ~2 MPH. This made us think even more that there could be a fault int he computer system or ignit9ion assembly.

We then dropped the car at a Toyota dealer on Fri night (closer to us than Lexus dealership).

I spoke to the rep at 8a on Sat further explaining the history. He said they'd run diagnostics and get back to me around 10a at latest. After not hearing back by 3p, I called twice until reaching him at 4p. (Making me wonder if they hadn't even really checked things out or not).

He said the vehicle hadn't failed for them while at the shop, there were no fault codes and the ignition assembly seemed fine. He said they are quite certain that it's the starter (even though we had a replacement put in 2/2012). He said that they only put Lexus manufacturer or Denso starters in Lexus' they work on, scoffing at the Bosch replacement that was put in our vehicle, saying that it's German manufactured and not good for a Lexus vehicle.

He went on to say that it makes sense that our first (Lexus manufactured) starter lasted ~8 years, while the cheaper Bosch only lasted ~2 years, and thus he recommends a newly manufactured Lexus starter for ~$475 plus $500 for labor (at $129/hr).

From what I've detailed above, does anyone here think that all arrows point to the starter? If so, would anyone think more specifically that the solenoid contacts are worn down/away, but that the dealer would rather just replace the whole unit, instead of working on the solenoid contacts?

Has anyone else here ever used a remanufactured starter and had it fail within 2 years?

Paying ~$1,000 for a factory starter for a 10 year old vehicle seems crazy to me. If it really is the starter, I see a Denso 280-0320 Remanufactured Starter on Amazon for $112, that I could have another shop replace for just over ~$300 in labor (assuming 4 hours of work).

I've used remanufactured parts for all my vehicles throughout the years and never had any issues. However, the rep at the dealer was so adamant yesterday that our problem was a remanufactured part, that I'd like to get some feedback from the people in this forum. Thanks,

6080prado

I can't think of a reason that a failing starter would cause the vehicle to die while already running. So I agree with you there may be some other issue (bad ignition switch maybe?).

I wouldn't have any problem buying a reman Denso starter over new. On my LC, I just replaced the contacts myself. I'm sure you could do that here as well, but since you now have a Bosch unit, it may be more difficult to source parts.

Did the Toyota dealer give any viable reason why a bad starter would cause the vehicle to die in traffic? If not, I think you may be throwing money at a misdiagnosed problem. I personally wouldn't be inclined to throw $1000 on the off-chance it cures the problem. Especially, since the existing starter is only two years old.

burny

Aren't these starters a nightmare to get to?

470reasons

This is usually all that's required to fix a Denso starter solenoid. There is probably a kit for the Bosch also.
Honda's had starter solenoid problems and that's were I learned about this cheap fix. There is usually nothing wrong with the starter motor itself. The solenoid contacts deteriorate due to arcing. (I have purchased several sets of contacts from this eBay seller.)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/STARTER-REPA...cdade2&vxp=mtr

BUT! Since the car quit in traffic and you've had starting problems - I'd bet the house on a bad ignition switch contact assembly.

Gently wiggle the ignition key while the engine is running and see if the engine dies. This MAY confirm the switch contacts are bad. If the problem is intermittent, it might take some time before someone figures out it really is the ignition switch contacts.

ITEM 84450

http://lexus.sewellparts.com/images/...00/845179A.jpg

jdemoors

Appreciate the feedback from all 3 of you this afternoon.

Am going to follow through tomorrow to have them fix the sensor for the airbag, then take possession back of the vehicle and will try to the jiggle/wiggle with to key to see if it's a problem with ignition switch contacts.

I had serious doubts about my problem being the starter/solenoid once the vehicle turned off in slow traffic. However the rep at the dealer was so adamant (even in light of me providing this information to him), that fixing the starter would solve all problems. I even asked him if the ignition switch assembly had been checked and he replied immediately with a "Yes".

1st time I've taken this thing to a dealer in the last 7 years and now I remember why I stayed away for so long!

Will chime back in with an update/resolution.

Thanks again for your feedback...

jdemoors

burny - yes the starter on this vehicle is on the valley of the engine. Complete hassle to access, hence why I had to pay for 4 hours of labor the last time I had the starter replaced.

chiph9

Another vote for checking the ignition switch. How much "stuff" is hanging on the keyring? You want to minimize this to prevent premature wear to the switch.

Also -- is there, or has there ever been, an aftermarket alarm on it?

Chip H>

jdemoors

chiph9 - its my wife's car...she does have a lot of 'stuff' on the key chain. That's why it seems logical that this is yhe most likely issue. As for after market alarm...no. However this does have an after market remote starter. Think that could be part of it? We rarely use it, but it does exist.

nipponbird

My vote goes to the ignition switch as well. The remark by the Toyota guy about the Bosch starter is just very school yard, I wouldn't pay any attention to it.

chiph9

He's not wrong about the starter, but I don't think it's at fault here, since the car shut off while being driven.

The remote start is certainly something to look at.

Chip H.

nipponbird

Was just wondering, what the guy has against Bosch. It is a company represented in more countries and enclaves than what some superpowers can claim to have diplomatic representation to. They hold several firsts as far as innovation in car components are concerned and to claim their products as inferior, sounds a bit based on ignorance.

chiph9

I agree that they've had a number of industry "firsts" over the years and they've got some good engineers working there. But for whatever reason, Bosch parts just don't work all that well in Japanese cars.

Take sparkplugs - Bosch aren't on the recommended list from either Honda or Toyota. I had some for a month or two in my CR-V and it was down on power and had an occasional stumble at idle. Replaced them with NGKs and it was fine for years afterward.

Chip H.

jdemoors

The trustworthy shop we've been bringing our cars to for years seems to be stumped in getting this fixed. When they first looked at it, they were convinced the issue stemmed from a fault with the after market remote starter system that the dealer put into the vehicle over 10 years ago. They pulled that out, re-wired it, and got 50+ good starts out of the vehicle, before it wouldn't start at all. They've since tested the starter and verified that there are no problems there.

They've done all kinds of work with the electrical relays and contacts, and 90% of the time it starts right up, but the 10% when it doesn't start is troublesome.

It's gotten to the point that 3 days ago, the owner of the shop has taken to resolving our issue instead of having his other mechanics look at it. He's now thinking that there's something with the master control unit and the security system that is shorting out the vehicle from starting as well as the one time where it just turned off in traffic.

Any ideas from anyone out there as we continue to get this worked out? Thanks

chiph9

Some more ideas --

Did they check the ignition switch antenna? It detects the RFID chip that's inside the key as part of the anti-theft system. I don't know if it will shut off fuel flow when driving, but certainly will disable the starter.

On the same note - does it happen with both keys? (keep the other key 15+ feet away when testing). Maybe the RFID chip in the key is flaky.

Chip H.

jdemoors

They used both keys and still had the same problem. Said they found a used computer for $200 and plan to put that in tomorrow to see if that is the final fix...