cssnms

Maybe you are confusing these products with products like Wynn engine flushes Slick50 and the like, but maybe not. Why don't you support your "snake oil" claims and condescending responses with some independent testing which demonstrates that Seafoam does not work?

I can speak from first hand experience after opening up my "modern" Yamaha EFI outboard engine for service after using Ring Free religiously and looking at a Yamaha engine that did not use Ring Free and my engine was clean and theirs' was full of carbon build-up - FACT.

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

Maybe you are confusing this forum with the Yamaha outboard engine forum. It's a Lexus forum for vehicles that will run 300-500K miles without any needless additives which, if they "work" (I never said they didn't "work" as you put it) will cut whatever crap loose and into the oil, ring lands, etc. Where's your proof that this stuff doesn't actually shorten engine life? It's funny how Toyota can build amazing engines that for all practical purposes can't be worn out in normal use, and they SPECIFICALLY instruct their customers and dealers NOT to put these things in them, yet people are convinced that they need to spend the time and money to put this stuff through their engine, against the recommendation of the company who had enough sense to engineer and build the engine in the first place. But by all means, have at it if you think it's worthwhile. It's your vehicle and your money. There is another side, though, and Toyota happens to be on that side.

cssnms

Nope, I am not confused at all. This thread is about engine additives and more specifically Sea Foam. My reference to my Yamaha outboard was nothing more than to demonstrate that in my experience there is proven technology that works contrary to your claims.

You stated additives are "snake oil" or in other words they DON'T WORK, so yes you did say that. But of course you have nothing other then speculation to support your generalized claim.

What "stuff" are you referring to? Sea Foam or Ring Free? In either case, I never claimed that it wouldn't. I can only attest to the benefits of Ring Free through personal experience. Also common sense would tell me that a cleaner engine is a happier engine and one that will likely last longer then an engine full of carbon build up. With regard to Sea Foam there are countless posts about the subject on the internet from boat owners (which is where I know the product from), motorcycle owners and car owners claiming positive results, but I cannot speak to the stuff other than what I read. Will I use it in my GX, no, will I use RingFree in my GX, no, will I ever use a non alchohol based fuel additive to reduce carbon build up as my truck gets up there in miles, yes.

You are the one that interjected your baseless speculation into this thread and if you are going to do that support your claims! Show me the proof that Sea Foam is nothing more then "snake oil!" Otherwise you have no credibility here.

Why is that "funny?" What's funny is how you are so quick to ostrocize someone else for referencing a company website and yet you are so willing to hitch your caboose to what Toyota says without even thinking about why they might not recommend such products. Why would Toyota promote someone elses product or spend the millions of $ on R&D to promote/prove someone elses product works???? Don't you think they recommend that for liability reasons? Otherwise people would be filling up their gas tanks with all kinds of crap. Come on man get your head out of the sand. Toyota promotes toyota parts and accessories, nothing else.

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

You said your engine LOOKED clean and that another engine did not. That doesn't prove anything about the utility of the product.
It's great that you're here to tell us what "snake oil" means, but it's actually a (derrogatory of course) term that when in the automotive aftermarket (where I work, BTW) to describe needless products that either flat out don't work, or, are not needed or serve no worthwhile purpose in the case at hand. What's your definition of "work"? Again, I have Toyota on my side. And numerous others of lesser relevance to Toyota vehicles.
I hope you aren't using your "experience" with Ring Free to support the claims made by Sea Foam. LOL Also, I hope your Yamaha is a 4-stroke, and not a 2-stroke. Otherwise your comparison to a 4-stroke Lexus engine is particularly foolish.

Would it now. I suppose you know that engines are DESIGNED, clearanced, and the fuel quality specified with the understanding and expectation that they will build up the normal, mildly insulating layer of deposits. It's not a bad thing if they are not there, but they are EXPECTED as part of the engine design. They have nothing to do with how long an engine lasts (unless perhaps they are repeatedly removed to lodge in the ring lands, contaminate the oil, etc.). People who don't know any better, or believe marketing hype, would think that piston tops and combustion chambers build up a harmfully thick layer of deposits. Unless you are burning $hi# for fuel, or have some other serious engine problem, this is not the case.

There are also countless posts on the internet from people who have seen Elvis lately, use crystals to protect them from evil spirits, and get drastically improved mileage due to their $29.95 Hydrogen-generator-in-a-glass-bottle that they have under the hood. That doesn't make it true.

Tip: if you use fuel system cleaners such as Techron concentrate or other similar products, do it in the last tank full of fuel prior to an oil change. The combustion by-products that normally find their way into the crankcase from the common fuel system cleaners will dramatically increase engine oil viscosity over time. A friend of mine was R&D manager for Chevron when Techron was invented, and mentioned this advice to me. A freebie for you and others here. But of course I'm sure you already knew this, didn't you? I'm sure it's on the additive maker's web site, or otherwise it couldn't possibly be true....

You haven't proven it to do anything worthwhile in an engine in good condition. In fact, you haven't even pointed to anything IIRC, except an unquantified result with an entirely DIFFERENT product. LOL And surely to hell you weren't talking about a 2-stroke on top of that, but I'll assume that's too goofy to even be a possibility.
Riiiiiight... Toyota is less credible than [fill in the blank name of engine additive hawker]. Trust me, you have no idea what I know about Toyota or their OEM and MVP product approval processes, etc. I suppose you did not know that Toyota dealers are free to sell whatever brands of oils, fluids, wiper blades, tires, etc., that they choose? Toyota does recommend a few other companies' products by technical specification, but that's not what's at issue here. They SPECIFICALLY recommend AGAINST general usage of certain types products, including this type. If there's something that is either bad for the vehicle or taking advantage of an "uninformed" customer, they'll look out for their customer by issuing guidelines to the dealer network, such as in this case.

I'm done arguing with you in this thread. People can read it and decide for themselves if they think their engine would be better off with some additive that a few internet users swear by, or if they'd be better off following the recommendations of the company that built a vehicle that will run 3 or 400K miles in the first place. While they're at it, they can decide if they think they're better off trusting a plastic "crystal" hanging on their mirror (after all, hundreds of internet users have seen miracles and the virgin Mary's face while holding one) instead of an insurance card in the glove box. And if you can't take that joke, pi$$ off.

cssnms

LMAO, I love self proclaimed experts like you who jump into these threads and spout their nonsense and have nothing to show for it other than citing their resume, who they know, along with their baseless claims - the joys/benefits of the virtual world! HAHAHA

I didn't question Toyota's credibility, I did question yours though. Once again, Toyota will not recommend a product that they have tested through R&D esp an engine additive. Otherwise it's a liability, what don't you get about that Mr. "I have Toyota on my side?!" LOL

You should re-read the thread again, I never claimed there was any benefit to using Sea Foam. HOWEVER, I did claim that I witnessed firsthand the benefits of using Ring Free in my Yamaha engine (yes it's a 4 stroke!) and that there are thousands of people out there that are satisfied with both products, which does not mean by any definition that these are scientific indpendent test results, just someone's word, just like yours' which at the end of the day means little.

The burden of proof is not on me my friend; it's on you who claims that all additives are "Snake Oil." Now stop convoluting the matter with all of your nonsensical B.S. and put up the PROOF otherwise don't come on here and make baseless claims as if they are fact!

farkas

iTrader: (5)

QUOTE=I6turbo
Tip: if you use fuel system cleaners such as Techron concentrate or other similar products, do it in the last tank full of fuel prior to an oil change. The combustion by-products that normally find their way into the crankcase from the common fuel system cleaners will dramatically increase engine oil viscosity over time. A friend of mine was R&D manager for Chevron when Techron was invented, and mentioned this advice to me. A freebie for you and others here. But of course I'm sure you already knew this, didn't you? I'm sure it's on the additive maker's web site, or otherwise it couldn't possibly be true....

Good Info!!!!!! Thanks!

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

Not really to continue the argument, but I can't help wonder out loud if you are truly incapable of comprehending the difference between Toyota recommending a product (as you keep saying), and going out of their way to specifically recommend against a class of products and services (which is what I keep relating as their position).

For those who might read this thread in hopes of finding some worthwhile info on the utility of engine flushes, etc., I encourage you to do some homework and searching if you care. It's easy enough to find the writeups like Popular Mechanics or others who have reported on engine flush scams and the lack of need or benefit, but I haven't really looked to see if there are any technical articles or SAE articles available (at a cost) on it. There's been a HUGE controversy in the automotive repair/service industry in recent months and years over these items. Shops claim they can't make a living without these high-dollar-margin services, but the manufacturers' (and this is by no means limited to Toyota) know that consumers will eventually figure out that they've been getting hosed about 95% of the time, and they'll start going elsewhere for service, and eventually their next new car. Anyway.... caveat emptor.

cssnms

I knew you would be back, "experts" like you just can't resist.

Although you keep hanging your hat on this like it somehow validates your baseless claims but your to THICK to understand it has nothing to with your "snake oil" theory. Toyota is NOT going to remain silent on the issue and sinceToyota has NOT done any R&D on any of these products (at least to my knowledge) OF COURSE THEY WILL RECOMMEND AGAINST USING THEM. Toyota is certainly not going to leave up to the consumer to decide what they believe is good for their engines whereby they end up dumping a truely bad product into their gas tank and expect Toyota to stand behind a warranty claim when their engine locks up. IT'S A LIABILITY ISSUE EINSTEIN NOTHING MORE (and although I have yet to validate your claim regarding Toyota recommending against the use of any engine additives, for conversation sake I will take your word for it.)



Well, had this thread been about engine flushes this quote might have ended up being the second smartest thing you've said thus far. Thank you for the lesson Dr!

DrVolkl

I wonder why a major corporation like Toyota hasn't bought SeaFoam (as in, bought the corporation) ... or heck, come out with their own stuff since it's so awesome.


Hmmmm..

Anyhow, a simple google search will produce everything you need to know. I think Seafoam works... it definitely cleans out carbon. Now, does that mean your car lasts longer? Debatable....

Lets get back to being friends, eh?

(btw marine engines and marine gas are not on the same standard as car engines. Just my observation over the years...)

(and yes, I know not everyone fills up at the local marina... but when you do.......)

Personally, I won't touch that ****. Just another reason for them to void my warranty if something happens... oh, and I plan to be well onto another vehicle by 400k miles, but if for some reason I'm not, perhaps I'll look into it (if the car is running rough...but why mess with something that isn't??)

satiger

iTrader: (1)

I did 'seaform' on my 120k miles ES using gas tank and break booster methods. I didn't see much smoke like what I have seen in youtube videos. Then drove the car to Toyota dealer and have them replaced spark plugs.

After seaform/spark plug changes, I did see small improvement in gas miles and acceleration becomes more smooth. Earlier I used to get around 25 mpg (80 hwy/20 city) and now averaging around 28 mpg.

Will I do that in GX. May be not. I will wait until the time to replace it's spark plugs and may do the seaform that time.

mattcocita

I use fuel system cleaners from time to time just to pep up the performance a little. I don't think I will ever use SeaFoam, the smoke just freaks me out.

SC34M3

i don't think you're suppose to drive the car when sea foaming...just rev the car.

with a high mile car and not well taken care of (oil change on time) or its brown all over the place..(oil cap area) i would use it. low mile car i wouldn't.some of the deposits are actually good.

Doco21

I just had to chime in on this since I had the problem. Seafoam does work BUT, it can and will cause problems if you have quite a few build up. Manufacturers of all brands recommend against seafoam type products because it can dislodge carbon build up and redeposit it elsewhere where it can cause more problems. I talked to a few dealer mechanics and found this out after I ran into a problem. If you ever have an engine problem and mention seafoam, it will void your warranty. Go ask your dealership on this.

For firsthand experience, I heard great things about seafoam and was recommended to use it regularly. What I didn't realize was that regular use helps, but if you had an older car with major build up, it can cause problems. We had an old 240sx that we wanted to "flush" out and so we put seafoam in it, it had the typical smoke, etc and we were told that it will gum up the O2 sensor and spark plugs. Sure enough, we got a CEL for the O2 and replaced it and the plugs but we have a new new issue. To this day, we've had engine problems that we/other mechanics cannot isolate. We've replaced fuel pump, filters, hoses, and besides a complete engine tear down, no one can isolate the problem. I think the original idea was for marine engines that is much easier to tear down and repair. I wished I read up more before I used it. Especially about almost all manufacturers policy against it. Don't get me wrong, I know of people who swears by it and since it clogs the sensor and plugs, it does dislodge something... just be careful...

Just my 2cents.

I6turbo

iTrader: (1)

Ooooohhhh the suckers-for-marketing are going to be all over you.