T4Fun

its not bogus. if you want less hp, put the cheap junk in it.
There is a definite diference in power and smoothness of the engine in 93 octane vs 87 octane. And if your computer effs up the timing, explain to lexus why you put the wrong fuel in the suv when you go for warranty work. Gimme a break. luxury suv and people complain about gas. Buy a 4R or HL.

Craigyyy

Well the marketing definitely works on some people

Eppieguy

LOL, So true!

T4Fun

I didnt know toyota had a vested interest in the oil companies.....Let alone advertising 93 octane on their commercials

Craigyyy

It has nothing to do with that. It's all to do with marketing their product. Instead of thinking you have a Toyota Tundra engine under the hood (which it is, also found in the Land Cruiser, LC Prado, Sequoia, Fortuner), the premium gas requirement makes you think you have a premium, upscale, more sophisticated higher performance engine, which is in turn worth paying the Lexus premium for. In reality it's the exact same engine as in the Toyotas, with the same compression ratio, same bore and stroke, same VVTi, etc.

With the 2012 facelift near the tail end of the recession, Lexus changed their required fuel on their entry level RX350 from premium to regular to appeal to cost-conscious buyers. In the 2011 and the 2012 you'll find the exact same 2GR-FE 3.5 liter V6. There's no new cam, no new ECU, no new injection, nothing.

But you are entitled to your opinion of course.

tecman

Great informative post Craigyyy. So let's assume the GX doesn't really need premium. My question is, does premium fuel give better performance with the GX or the other models you mentioned? If I can get any performance gains I am willing to pay for premium.

T4Fun

so your statement implies there is no reason for one putting 93 octane vs 87 octane.

Of course, this is why they sell 100 octane fuel at the track and not your 87 octane. Maybe we should all switch to 87 octane at the track too....because its a marketing gimmick.

read the last paragraph....http://www.caranddriver.com/features...results-page-2.

do what u want, its a free country, everyone has guns and opinions, who cares....

coolsaber

Premium is recommended for a variety of reasons. However at the end of the day its all upto you.


1) Consumer reports and a couple other sources have found in their own testing that in terms of raw mileage Premium vs Regular is primarily dependent on your engine tuning and what your daily driving style is. If your engine is designed to rev up to achieve its stated power numbers, and your in an environment that constantly sees you mash the throttle, then yes, Premium does matter. On the flip side, if your a soccer mom, and your engine is a designed to achieve max power at redline, but you feather the throttle, your fuel economy numbers will not drop, and stay the same with either grade.

2) Premium recommendation is also a way to safe guard your engine against craptastic fuel found at some stations. Top tier is a way to avoid that. However other times knowing that your engine is using the best available at the station is probably better then taking in regular from a shady cash only middle of nowhere type location.

3) Premium fuel will usually contain the most concentration amount of detergents in a companys offering. Yes, there are companies that will say they mix it with their regular grades as well, but were talking amount. For a new engine that might not seem important, but consistency is key with internals.

LXGXSAM1

I agree, fuel grade choice to me is based on how you acquired your vehicle. If I leased my vehicle, I'll probably use 87 octane at all times. I use premium fuel for my GX460 and my other vehicles as required because after owning two back-to-back used 2008 GX470 in the past which both knocked on cold starts made me think the previous owners used regular fuel most of the times. The sad part was the knocking didn't go away with the premium gasoline I've used for the entire time I owned the vehicles - once the engine knocks, it gets worse from that point forward I guess, it is why I only kept each of them for two years. I still bought my 2014 used but it had a very very low mileage and I would not dare use fuel other than premium because I intend to keep it for a long while.

Come to think of it, I am wondering if the need for short-interval oil changes had something to do with using low grade fuel, hmmm.

Craigyyy

It very well might. On my 2012 vs 2011 RX example, the 2012 was rated at 270 horsepower, down 5 from 2011. However the 2GR-FE has a little bit higher compression ratio of 10.8:1 which might benefit more from the higher octane. The same 1UR-FE 4.6L in the Toyota as in the GX is actually rated with more horsepower despite the regular fuel requirement, and both run the same 10.2:1 compression ratio. In that same article T4Fun posted, one of the cars tested performed worse with premium fuel (which could be due to the fact that higher octane fuel has less energy density than regular).

The current 5.0L V8 Mustang requires regular, but states in the manual that the advertised performance is only with premium. Same thing with the last generation Corvette. For GM and Ford, getting the lowest fuel cost on the sticker was more important, despite the performance advertisement.

Like coolsaber above mentioned, if you're just cruising around town you'll never notice any difference in performance or economy (besides saving at the pump); you'll see whatever marginal difference only when you're leaning on the truck for more power (and likely then only near full throttle, top of the rev range). For a guy who likes performance like you, premium fuel definitely shouldn't hurt.

Craigyyy

Assuming you're referencing me

Yeah the evidence seems to suggest that the engine in the GX460 doesn't benefit very much (if at all) from higher octane. And of course, the GX definitely won't benefit from 100 octane, but I would love to see your track day video in the GX

From the article:
Again, the 1URFE 4.6 in the GX is not designed to run on premium. It is merely marketed to run on premium.

Here's another article for you:

http://www.autonews.com/article/2016...p-with-premium


Still, it's rarely a bad idea to comply with what the manufacturer recommends. Personally, I find paying 50% more for premium to be egregious.

jjscsix

I have to admit that I'm a natural born skeptic, and I REALLY don't believe in everything I read on the Internet. So I looked at the specs on the GX and Tundra engine expecting the Tundra to be rated at about 10 less hp. Much to my surprise, it has almost identical torque and MORE hp (likely do to a slightly less restrictive exhaust-my opinion).

I know a lot about vehicles and am pretty well versed in this subject, but certainly not at an expert status. There are many factors that aren't always obvious in just looking at basic specs that dictate octane rating. But in this case, I'm inclined to believe your theory about the GX not needing premium. I'm going to do some experimenting to see if I can detect any knock. I really don't know if it has knock sensors or not BTW.

Good "debate".

Craigyyy

Yes, it does have knock sensors, you can google the part numbers

I have owned sportscars and never thought twice about filling the tank with premium. But when I checked the specs on this engine, coupled with the fact that over the past number of years local stations have been severely overcharging for premium, it gave me pause.

The most blatant example is the Land Cruiser/LX we have in the states. For years and years it's been the same engine in the same truck but one is premium while the other is not. For this vehicle, all the evidence points to it being marketing, not design. Even if there is some magical smoothness or special tune the Lexus runs, it's a modern vehicle which will adjust the timing, and a Toyota at that. They sell thousands and thousands of these things in Russia and the 3rd world where just finding clean gasoline of any octane is a challenge. Even if the premium requirement were real, I'm sure a Toyota product can handle a few less octane points with my lazy driving around town for its lifetime.

Saving $15.00-$20.00 per fillup is meaningful to me. At the very least it's a nice lunch. If it was just $0.20/gallon like it used to be, I wouldn't be having this conversation.

daman7676

iTrader: (1)

This right here. In California, highest octane at the pump is 91 and is about $0.20 more expensive than regular unleaded (87). If we had a larger difference in price per gallon here, I'd probably drop down to regular. For about $4 more a fill up, it's pretty much piece of mind for me to go with premium.

coolsaber

So should we assume the 2017 GX460 will be debuting regular fuel recommendation :P