patgilm

I actually loved my first gen IS. I bought the 2nd gen and it was way better all around but there was something about the first gen I liked better. Maybe because it was just different than the other Lexus'.

tazdevl

I think there are a lot of misinformed folks here. Just because a frame goes to a unibody does not mean the vehicle becomes a soccer mom mobile nor does it lose off road capabilities. The Grand Cherokee is a unibody and far more capable than the GX when the pavement ends. The LR4 is arguably, one, if not the most capable off-road vehicle out there and is a hybrid unibody/rail frame. The next LR last I heard was going o shift to 100% unibody in a couple years.

IMO the benefits of a unibody frame outweighs all aspects of body on frame/ladder except in towing.

SW17LS

I think from a handling perspective though the 3 series has always still had the edge...

100% correct, the Grand Cherokee has ALWAYS been unibody also...

bradtopp

I'm not disagreeing with you, yet, but where did you gather the data to support this statement: The Grand Cherokee is ... far more capable than the GX when the pavement ends.

SW17LS

Here ya go:

http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/feature...ard/index.html

The Grand Cherokee won several categories pertaining to offroad prowess, GX460 won "fuel economy".

bradtopp

The article says almost nothing. I'm looking for a head to head offroad comparison between the GC and the GX.

Koz

Don't take this the wrong way but I think you have your Heeps a little mixed up. The Grand Cherokee is not as capable as the GX off-road. Have you been off-road with one? The GC is Heep's soccer Mom luxury SUV. You have to remember that the GX is the luxury version of Europe's Land Cruiser Prado with a gas V8. Have you ever been off-road with a GX? The GX is the vehicle that is far more capable off-road. Now the other Heeps are a different story. I also believe that as long as Europe demands the Prado (Which is very desirable) you will see the GX remain a full frame vehicle.

Koz

SW17LS

If the GC won an offroad category, that means it beat out the GX.

Anyways I don't think you will find a comparison head to head because the GX is so much more money than the Jeep.

This is absolutely not true. The GC is very capable offroad. Have you ever been offroad with one? I can provide you with article after article after article, and video after video of the Jeep offroad. Hang around the Jeep forum...these things are very capable. I'm only about 6 months into Jeep ownership, but I can tell you that.

If the GX were more capable than the GC, why did the GC best it in a few categories in the 4Wheel comparison I posted above?

SW17LS

Watch this...this is pretty basic, Quadra Trac II which is an upgrade with selectable terrain profiles, with no limited slip, and OEM tires:


This one has off road tires


I'm not saying the GX isn't capable, I'm sure it is, but to say the Jeep Grand Cherokee is a soccer mom SUV and is not capable isn't true.

tazdevl

Koz, I know you think the GX is the second coming, but you should check out the specs on a stock Grand Cherokee Overland, puts the GX to shame. Also may want to check out some jeep forums and see what folks are doing with their stock GCs. Don't see anyone doing that with their GX.

The GX is based on the Prado, it isn't the Prado. I should know since I owned one when I lived overseas.

There haven't been direct comparisons with the GX but In pretty sure these comparisons wouldn't have been done with the LR4, the gold standard, vs the GC if it wasn't a serious contender for the best offroad SUV.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...8/viewall.html

http://www.trucktrend.com/roadtests/...son/index.html

SW17LS

I never would have considered a Jeep until I saw the new 2011 redesign and sat in it. It really is an incredible vehicle for the money, great materials inside, well built, rides awesome, incredibly quiet (double pained side glass, etc). That interest got me on the Jeep forums and opened my mind up and let me see what people do with them STOCK. Very capable vehicles.

I love ours. In a lot of ways I like it better than the Lexus, and I've driven them for 14 years.

Koz

My opinion is based on both vehicles being completely stock. In stock form I've been with several GCs off-roading and each time the GC broke down. Twice for shorting out the alternator (going through a couple feet of water). When the vehicle (two weeks old) was towed to the stealer it was not covered by the warranty. My buddy pointed to the "Trail Rated" emblem and the stealer said "that doesn't mean you can take it off road" ($500). One time I was with a GC and we could not go a mile without it picking up a rock that would get stuck in the front rotors and calipers. Needless to say, it was very aggravating having to stop and take it apart to get the small rocks out! Once you mod the GC it is much better, but in stock form they are a PITA. I won't even mention how reliable they are! One of my friends was so sick of his he decided to sell it and move on. That didn't work out because once he found out what it was worth he had to bite the bullet and keep it.

Here are two pics that I still tease my friends with, one on the trail and the other is the Heep getting loaded onto a flatbed. The GX is an amazing vehicle on the trail and on pavement (as long as there is ground clearance). The LR is right there with the GX.

Koz

SW17LS

Koz, that's a reliability issue, not an offload prowess issue. Quality is much better on the new WK2 (I never would have bought a WK like your friend's). Reliability remains to be seen, but mine is a lease to protect me from unknown reliability and depreciation. I might like the vehicle more than any other vehicle I've ever had, it's that nice.

Go to the Jeep forums, lots of people wheel their GCs stock with none of the issues you mention. The vehicles are very capable, and the WK2 is a HUGE improvement over the WK.

bradtopp

There is no problem being in love with the most recent generation of Grand Cherokee. I agree is appears to be an improvement. I test drove one with a Hemi for about 10 miles. Wasn't my cup of tea. Getting service will always be an issue since the dealerships I've dealt with in the past (yes, I've owned 3 Jeeps in my lifetime) to obtain warranty coverage are beyond horrible. Time will tell if it truly holds up in quality, reliability, and off-road prowess department.

I still haven't seen any solid facts posted about the off-road advantages of a Grand Cherokee versus a GX. That is because there are no facts. And this is a GX/Lexus forum so I'm not sure you are going to get the support you expected from us to support your decision to love a keep.

SW17LS

I don't know that I expected any support from you guys, and I know I don't care whether you support what vehicle I drive or not. We're just having a free-wheeling conversation, someone brought up the Grand Cherokee, posted incorrect information and since I'm the only one who has one, I gave my thoughts. I'm not the one who said the GC was more capable than the GX offroad.

As for dealer service, thats going to be a huge difference from Lexus or any other luxury brand. In fact, I just came off a 100 post thread in the Jeep forum where some yahoo was complaining because his Jeep was in for warranty work and they rented him a Dodge Caliber that was "beneath him" as a "luxury buyer" and how the service was better with his previous Cadillac, etc.

What I and everybody else told him was if he wanted excellent dealer service, high end loaners, and to be treated like a VIP he should have bought a luxury car. His Jeep might have cost $50k, but its still just a Jeep, and the dealers are all Chrysler, Jeep, Dodge Ram dealers. We have a pretty good dealer down the road from our house, but its not a luxurious experience by any means.