gx62991

My apologies for not being mechanically inclined and somewhat of a dimwit. I have a 2008 GX470 that has always run great, never any problems. I took it in to a local shop for the timing belt change at 90k miles. Cost $1200, which is about a thousand less than the dealer when you include the water pump. Get a call later on that day from the owner who says that they've made a mistake and put the timing belt on wrong and my engine is toast. They rebuild the upper half of the engine, sending it to a Lexus machine shop to have it remachined and then replacing the valves, etc. themselves and cover all the costs (except for what I agreed to pay for the timing belt change). A few weeks later, I get my car back and it's a little sluggish, which I tell them about but I'm glad to have it back. They take a look at it and say everything looks ok. Two months later, the car starts vibrating dramatically and all the lights on the dash come on. I have it towed to the same shop and they start digging and find out that the cam shaft broke. They fix it and cover all the costs. Now, when I get it back, it makes a loud sound, kind of like a diesel engine. I take it back and a few weeks later, they call me to tell me they fixed it so I pick it up. The owner has already left for the day and the guy behind the desk doesn't really know what's been done because there's no ticket. He tells me the owner will call me the next day. I expect that they'll cover the costs again. The sound is gone and the power appears to be back in the engine. However, a few weeks later, the owner calls me, asks how the engine sounds and then drops a bomb that what was causing the sound wasn't related to any of the work they'd done and that I owe them $1200 for the repair. It was a tensioner for a cam belt. They took it out, it looked fine, but when they dropped a new one in, the sound disappeared. My question is, I originally took the car in for the timing belt. It wasn't making any sounds and ran great. A few months and after a bungled timing belt change and engine rebuild, is there really any way the problem with the belt tensioner wasn't caused by the work they'd done and what other problems can I expect. Should I be expected to pay the $1200. I now know I'm an idiot to not have certified Lexus mechanics work on the car but I'm hoping it won't be a really expensive lesson. Thank in advance for your replies.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

the tensioner for the cam belt? that is the timing belt tensioner it should have been replaced in the first place with the timing belt.
sounds a little fishy... but some shops don't always replace those parts so its not unheard of. I always get the tensioner, rollers, and waterpump done cause its silly not to spend the extra little bit of money to do those.

One can pull the timing belt tensioner and pop a new one back in from underneath in about 30 minutes or less, but maybe they dissasembled a bunch of stuff before figuring it out.
it is also entirely possible that the bad timing belt job damaged the tensioner, hence needing to be replaced. generally they do not go bad on their own for at least 2 timing belt intervals, but I replace it anyways. Also I am not sure they make that kind of sound when they go bad but its possible, can you elaborate on the diesel noise? eventually the engine just smashes the valves again when the tensioner is bad.

its also possible that they are making stuff up to cover their costs. I have had a ticking noise that sounded exactly like a diesel from not removing the service bolt that locks the cam scissor gear together for removing and putting the cams back in, sounds like a loud clanking. kinda funny you mention it happened after a cam was installed.. was it on the same side? a bad timing belt tensioner would affect both sides but the cam gear would be heard louder on the problem side. happens all the time I did it once, remove the service bolt and it goes away, it could have been an oversight or whatever hard to say.

another diesel sound can come from not installing the valve shims correctly, especially on a new cam they need to be measured and put in the right places or you get a ticking sound also.
the other bad thing is that they went to shim under bucket on these motors, so sometimes when putting the shim in place and the bucket over it, the shim can fall out and the mechanic may not notice until it eats up a valve, valve seat and/or piston from floating around in the cylinder. this also makes a very loud tick but the engine will shudder as it runs.

Did you ever ask what cylinder heads they replaced it with, new or used? broken cam shaft is rather uncommon on these motors, I would suspect they mixed and matched parts like cam caps and cams etc... instead of getting a set of whole cylinder heads new or used in its entirety. I wouldn't be surprised if it happens again if something was not done correctly. once that happens to the motor you are often better off asking for a good running replacement from another low mileage vehicle.

The timing belt job on these especially the vvti is more complicated, its not a bad idea to spend the extra and take it to a dealer, not that dealers are better or anything, just that the mechanic at the dealer has probably done about 1000 of them before, so they are less likely to make these time consuming mistakes over and over again.

hopefully they routed your crank sensor wire properly, if its not put in the right place at the right time during reassembly, your accessory belt will eventually cut through it and leave the car not running or starting, happens to a lot of DIY people on their first try.

BlackCat81

No repair order with authorizing work or a diagnosis charge? My answer to him would be "I don't know what you're talking about." No repair order, no proof.

gx62991

Thanks for the replies, especially Ali SC3's very informative response. Before doing the timing belt change, the shop claimed it was going to replace all of the wearable parts, including the tensioner, as part of the job. That does make their story suspect if something went wrong with the timing belt tensioner. They also claimed that they used new, genuine Lexus parts for the rebuild to make sure everything fit right. The "diesel" sound was a pronounced engine noise, kind of like a belt that wasn't quite right. The engine was running much louder than normal. I'm not sure quite how to describe it, other than it sounded more like a diesel pickup than a gas engine; not quite as loud as a diesel but much louder than the GX470 usually sounds. Apparently they had to poke around for some time to figure out the cause. Is it possible something wasn't seated correctly and their tinkering happened to fix it. What one of the other guys at the shop told me when I picked it up the last time is that they had a new mechanic who had come over from the Lexus dealership and he took a look and tweaked a few things to fix it, but he didn't know exactly what was done because he didn't have a ticket for the work. What really makes me suspicious is that I took the car in and it was running without issue, one of the best cars I've ever driven, with no unusual noises and when I got it back it definitely was not running right. I don't see how the rebuild could be eliminated as a cause. I don't want to shaft the shop if what they're telling me is true, but I'm not sure I believe their side of the story. And I'm a little worried, though the car seems to be running normally now, that the engine might fail in the future.

Booyah

I would not pay them a dime more! they messed up and know it, but trying to claim some money back by coming up with BS.

BradTank

Sorry this happened.

Don't pay them a dime, and if anything they owe you money for all the trouble they caused blowing up your engine. Did you have a rental car during the weeks of downtime?

The camshaft "broke" because the timing belt was put on wrong and the valves slammed into the camshaft. It's a very common way the engine is damaged on an interference engine if the timing is not correct.

Here is a good overview of how all of these components go together to better understand what happened

http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/heres-...how-1643804882


I see more and more stories like this about timing belts, and my advice is pay the extra for the dealership to do it. If the dealer screws up, they will be sourcing you a replacement engine while you have a loaner. And $1,200 for an independent shop to do it does not represent much cost savings, I would have guessed a Lexus dealer would have done the job for not that much more.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

For a future note, take it toyota for timing belt changes, they are usually pretty reasonable and that engine was in the 4runner and landcruiser etc.. they have all the stuff to work on them.

Htony

Right they messed up big time. What an inconvenience.

rocrunner

Did you have issues after this?

gx62991

BHbass59

Sorry to read about what you've gone through. Lexus dealers are not your only viable option - as others have noted, Toyota dealerships are fully capable of doing this job properly. In my area, there is a 1-man shop that focuses exclusively on Land Cruiser/4 Runner type vehicles, both stock and off-road customized. His wife drives the same vehicle as mine (2003 1st gen GX470).

lesz

Absolutely.

I had the timing belt, water pump, etc. done at the local Toyota dealer, and the cost was around $650 (with a $100 loyal customer coupon). I've used the Toyota dealer for all of the non-warranty service work done on my Lexus vehicles for about 15 years. They use the same parts that the Lexus dealer would be using. I've never had an issue with the quality of their work, and prices are typically less than half what the Lexus dealer would have charged.