Dealership Suggests Full Engine Replacement
09-05-12, 06:24 PM
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Dealership Suggests Full Engine Replacement
Just got home from the dealership today with news I never thought I would get about my 2005 GX! We took it in because the check engine and vsc lights were all on thinking it would be something simple but boy were we wrong. Code came up as Cylinder 6 Misfire, after they checked the coil, plug and injector they did a compression test and found that the cylinder only had 105lbs vs the 200lbs the other cylinders had. They were stumped as they had only ever seen 1 other motor go bad in a GX due to no oil after an oil change - that one cost $18,000 to fix. First option they said was to rebuild the engine would be between $15,000 to $20,000. After telling them that I could no way pay that much to have the motor done they said they could get a used motor put in for $7,000 but that engine has 91,000 miles.... my GX only has 84,000 miles. During the visit while we thought it was going to be a simple fix we sat down and were dealing on a 2010 GX460 and they had offered us $16,000 for ours but after the bad news they said they would only be able to give us $9,000 or less depending on what the costs were to fix ours. I am at a total loss, we purchased the car almost 4 years ago and it only had 61,000 miles and we really hoped to drive it more than 23,000 miles before it died....
09-05-12, 07:03 PM
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The car does have a miss that you can feel when going slow or at stop lights, At speed it drives fine and they told me it was safe to drive home. The only reason they could come up with is that maybe the fuel injector was stuck open and was washing the sides of the cylinder down? They tried putting oil in the cylinder but it only came up to 110lbs. Any Ideas what to do? 7K seems crazy for a car with only 84,000 miles.
09-05-12, 07:41 PM
#5
09-05-12, 08:02 PM
#6
The car does have a miss that you can feel when going slow or at stop lights, At speed it drives fine and they told me it was safe to drive home. The only reason they could come up with is that maybe the fuel injector was stuck open and was washing the sides of the cylinder down? They tried putting oil in the cylinder but it only came up to 110lbs. Any Ideas what to do? 7K seems crazy for a car with only 84,000 miles.
I think I would definitely get a second opinion - sounds to me like it is time to check the basics first - valve timing, valve lash, and more importantly, do a leak down test... prior to pulling and replacing the entire engine, I think I would at minimum, pull that head and have it checked at a proper machine shop...
09-05-12, 08:31 PM
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they told me the opposite, that they felt that the cylinder walls were probably scored and the cross hatching that holds the oil up would be gone. They said just to tear it down to look inside to find the problem would be approx. 30 hours of time so around $3,000 before they even started fixing anything? I would think I took it to the right place and would not have to get a second opinion since they are the Lexus dealer... I think I will try calling the 1800-25-LEXUS number tomorrow and see what they think I should do. Where would I even start looking for a shop that I can trust if I cannot even trust the dealer?
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09-05-12, 08:43 PM
#8
they told me the opposite, that they felt that the cylinder walls were probably scored and the cross hatching that holds the oil up would be gone. They said just to tear it down to look inside to find the problem would be approx. 30 hours of time so around $3,000 before they even started fixing anything? I would think I took it to the right place and would not have to get a second opinion since they are the Lexus dealer... I think I will try calling the 1800-25-LEXUS number tomorrow and see what they think I should do. Where would I even start looking for a shop that I can trust if I cannot even trust the dealer?
if you were close, I'd say drop it off at my house cause I've done more than is required for your particular problem in my garage...
the reason oil is added to an engine during a compression test is because the oil fills in the cross hatching and possible gouges in the cylinder walls... what it doesn't do is fill in the spaces if a valve isn't seated fully... thus the reason if the compression didn't rise when oil was added at least 20-30 psi, that your issue lies somewhere else, most likely... I agree that further inspection is required, but a bore-scope is a relatively inexpensive piece of equipment that a large shop like that should have access to which would allow inspection of at least the cylinder walls without removing the head...
09-05-12, 08:50 PM
#9
here is a little more for you to read
http://www.aa1car.com/library/compression.htm
http://www.aa1car.com/library/leakdown.htm
read those and decide for yourself if you were given good information from the dealer...
the absolute safe way to fix your issue is to replace the motor... the cheaper way, which would most likely be to pull the head, replace the valves in that cylinder, have a full valve job done, might as well replace valve stem seals, will cost 1/4 what your estimate to replace with a used motor...
unfortunately I don't have access to a labor guide right now, but most vehicles are around 6-12 hours per head for labor...
http://www.aa1car.com/library/compression.htm
http://www.aa1car.com/library/leakdown.htm
read those and decide for yourself if you were given good information from the dealer...
the absolute safe way to fix your issue is to replace the motor... the cheaper way, which would most likely be to pull the head, replace the valves in that cylinder, have a full valve job done, might as well replace valve stem seals, will cost 1/4 what your estimate to replace with a used motor...
unfortunately I don't have access to a labor guide right now, but most vehicles are around 6-12 hours per head for labor...
Last edited by mitsuguy; 09-05-12 at 08:59 PM.
09-05-12, 09:17 PM
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Why on earth would they tell me that? I agree with you that it sounds like a valve issue. I have the report from lexus in front of me and will tell you exactly what it said.
"The technician found trouble code p0306 for a cylinder six missfire. The technician swapped ignition coils from cylinders 8 and 4. The misfire stayed with cylinder six. The technician performed a cylinder compression test. The technician found cylinder six to have 105 psi. Cylinder four to have 200 psi and cylinder two to have 195 psi. The technician added oil to cylinder six and the psi only went up to 110 psi. The customer has been informed that the engine would need to be taken apart and inspected for needed repairs. The customer has declined to have any further engine work performed at this time."
The reason I declined is that he said it would take approx 30 hours to take it apart, then went into the cylinder being damaged and would probably need a complete rebuild and quoted between $15,000 and $20,000.
I feel like I am totally screwed with this thing.
"The technician found trouble code p0306 for a cylinder six missfire. The technician swapped ignition coils from cylinders 8 and 4. The misfire stayed with cylinder six. The technician performed a cylinder compression test. The technician found cylinder six to have 105 psi. Cylinder four to have 200 psi and cylinder two to have 195 psi. The technician added oil to cylinder six and the psi only went up to 110 psi. The customer has been informed that the engine would need to be taken apart and inspected for needed repairs. The customer has declined to have any further engine work performed at this time."
The reason I declined is that he said it would take approx 30 hours to take it apart, then went into the cylinder being damaged and would probably need a complete rebuild and quoted between $15,000 and $20,000.
I feel like I am totally screwed with this thing.
09-06-12, 06:46 AM
#11
Why on earth would they tell me that? I agree with you that it sounds like a valve issue. I have the report from lexus in front of me and will tell you exactly what it said.
"The technician found trouble code p0306 for a cylinder six missfire. The technician swapped ignition coils from cylinders 8 and 4. The misfire stayed with cylinder six. The technician performed a cylinder compression test. The technician found cylinder six to have 105 psi. Cylinder four to have 200 psi and cylinder two to have 195 psi. The technician added oil to cylinder six and the psi only went up to 110 psi. The customer has been informed that the engine would need to be taken apart and inspected for needed repairs. The customer has declined to have any further engine work performed at this time."
The reason I declined is that he said it would take approx 30 hours to take it apart, then went into the cylinder being damaged and would probably need a complete rebuild and quoted between $15,000 and $20,000.
I feel like I am totally screwed with this thing.
"The technician found trouble code p0306 for a cylinder six missfire. The technician swapped ignition coils from cylinders 8 and 4. The misfire stayed with cylinder six. The technician performed a cylinder compression test. The technician found cylinder six to have 105 psi. Cylinder four to have 200 psi and cylinder two to have 195 psi. The technician added oil to cylinder six and the psi only went up to 110 psi. The customer has been informed that the engine would need to be taken apart and inspected for needed repairs. The customer has declined to have any further engine work performed at this time."
The reason I declined is that he said it would take approx 30 hours to take it apart, then went into the cylinder being damaged and would probably need a complete rebuild and quoted between $15,000 and $20,000.
I feel like I am totally screwed with this thing.
Jeebus, a complete engine from Lexus retail cost is 30k... that is craziness! If you did have/want to replace the entire engine, I would recommend contacting a Jasper engine dealer. They have the best aftermarket engine warranty on the market, and they do a pretty good job at rebuilding engines to start...
There is a motor on ebay for $1250 with 70k on it with a 6 month warranty...
Ah, god I hate the dealership!!! this post just hurts looking at it...
09-06-12, 10:23 AM
#12
TLDR version:
Local Nissan Stealership quoted me $5,000+ for an engine replacement. I bought a salvage engine out of NY from eBay ($450 + $150 freight shipping) and had it shipped directly to a local independent mechanic and it was finished in about a week. I put on approximately 30K more miles before I traded it in. Total cost for all parts & labor was just shy of $1,500.
If something similar happened to me on the GX where an engine replacement was required, I'd do the exact same route as I did with my Nissan Versa without hesitation.
GL to the OP in getting this resolved one way or another.
Cheers,
Kermee
Last edited by Kermee; 09-06-12 at 10:29 AM.
09-06-12, 12:01 PM
#13
Lexus Test Driver
I am so not surprised Lexus Dealer quoted you the most expensive option. So disappointing as well. Definitely get a couple of more opinions from Lexus mechanics NOT dealers. Just my thoughts. I found a great shop and saved me so far a couple of grand on parts/labor.
09-06-12, 04:22 PM
#15
Lead Lap
Once you get over the shock there are at least two more options to consider:
1) Just keep driving it until something fails dramatically, while saving all the money you can. Who knows, it could run with a miss for years?
2) Hurry & trade it in on something else before things get worse.
Personally, I like Kermee's solution.
1) Just keep driving it until something fails dramatically, while saving all the money you can. Who knows, it could run with a miss for years?
2) Hurry & trade it in on something else before things get worse.
Personally, I like Kermee's solution.