My tire story/review -- A/S Plus to Serenity Plus to A/S 3 back to A/S Plus
12-04-13, 08:59 PM
#1
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My tire story/review -- A/S Plus to Serenity Plus to A/S 3 back to A/S Plus
Hey guys. It's been an interesting few months to say the least. I am hopeful that the information I provide here will help some of you in making your next tire purchasing decision.
First, a little about me and my car. I have a 2006 GS430 with g-spyder 18s (tire size 245 40 18). I bought the car CPO in March 2012 with 50k miles on it. At the time, the car had Pilot Sport A/S Plus (93Y load/speed rating) with a about 60% tread left (so they were not replaced under the CPO certification process).
I am 45 years old, married, kids, etc. About 90% of my miles are highway miles at 75 mph. Quiet and comfort is important to me, but I also like to toss the car around a bit on the weekends.
I put 25k miles on the A/S Plus that came with the car. They were down to 2/32nds, so it was time to replace them.
First, here are my impressions on my first set of A/S Plus. They were great. Quiet and comfortable on the highway. I know a lot of people have reported the dreaded rightward pull with these tires, but for whatever reason, my first set of A/S Plus didn't have the problem. Gas mileage was pretty good too. I was averaging 23 mpg per tank, sometimes a little more depending on how fast I drove on the highway. Towards the end, the tires got a little noisier and firmer, but that's to be expected when the tread depth is in the 2/32nds range. It was time for a new set of tires.
I researched the crap out of this before I made my decision. I ended up going with the Bridgestone Turanza Serenity Plus, 245 40 18 in a 93W rating. I had a set of the Turanza LS-Z (the predecessor to the Serenity) on my previous car (99 GS400 with 235 45 17) that I loved, so I assumed the Serenity Plus would be even better. As advertised, the tires were incredibly quiet and comfy. In fact, for the first few days with them, it took some time getting used to the fact that I was hearing all sorts of wind noise and even tire noise from the cars around me because the tires on my car were whisper quiet. They also got great gas mileage. On my first full tank with them, I want to say I averaged around 24 mpg. That's the good, now here's the bad. The side walls were incredibly soft. The car wallowed through corners. Even the most mundane turns were an adventure. And let's be clear, I'm not Mario Andretti. I'm talking about turning from street A onto perpendicular street B. At times, it felt like the sidewall of the tire was going to roll under itself. I literally had to adjust my driving style as a result. And cloverleafs, well, forget about it, I really had to take it easy around those. After 30 days, I decided to exercise Bridgestone's buy and try guarantee and get a new set of tires.
I would have gone back to my beloved A/S Plus, but Michelin was no longer making them, so I opted for the A/S 3 instead (245 40 18, 97Y XL). Once on, I immediately noticed that the performance was back. It was unreal. The car cornered like it was on rails. I didn't have to brake going into most corners. On dry pavement, traction was outstanding. On wet pavement, traction was equally outstanding. I didn't get a chance to drive them in the snow, but I would expect that they would be equal to their predecessor, the A/S Plus. As an added benefit, unlike the directional A/S Plus, the A/S 3 are non-directional which allows for side to side rotation. Fuel economy was good, not as good as the Serenity Plus but equal to or better than the A/S Plus. Now the bad. These tires were loud, period, both around town and on the highway. Not enjoyable at all. And, to make matters worse, the ride was very firm, downright harsh over some bumps. You literally felt every bump and imperfection in the road, and for the larger bumps, the car would literally feel like it was crashing over them. Over the course of that month, I must have talked to 10 people at Tirerack and Michelin to try to figure out what the heck was going on here. After all, I read the reviews, and everyone is RAVING about these tires. Sure, for some, they were still in the honeymoon period, but for me, it was if I didn't even have a honeymoon -- I wanted a divorce the same night I got married. I finally was able to have my issue elevated at Michelin and I spoke to a technical supervisor. In short, he wasn't surprised that I was feeling what I was feeling. He explained that the main difference between the A/S Plus and A/S 3 in my size was the load rating. The A/S Plus was a 93y, the A/S 3 was a 97yXL. So not only was the load rating slightly higher (93 versus 97), but the 97 was an XL (extra load), which means that the sidewalls of the tire are reinforced to carry an extra load. Also, according to Michelin, the rubber compound for the A/S 3 is a much harder compound than the A/S Plus. All of this adds up to outstanding handling for the A/S 3, but at the expense of noise and ride comfort.
I was coming up on my 30 days and needed to make a decision. I knew I couldn't stick with the A/S 3 in 97yXL, but I wasn't sure what to go with. I had the option of getting the A/S 3 in a 97vXL rating, but according to Michelin, I wouldn't feel much difference between the V and Y rated A/S 3. Then, a few days before my 30 days was up, my Lexus dealer was able to locate a set of A/S Plus (again, in 93y), so I snapped them up. They were installed a week ago Friday (by the way, 2213 is the manufacture date code, for those wondering). The noise is back down and the ride quality is back up. In short, I have my car back -- Lexus ride quality with a nice dose of performance. I am having a slight problem with pulling, particularly on crowned surfaces, but the problem seems to be lessening as the tires break in. I'm hopeful that it will go away completely in a few thousand miles (which might explain why I never had the issue with the first set of A/S Plus that came on my car). One huge downside is that if I have a blowout and need to replace a tire, I may be completely out of luck because there might not be any left around in my size. I'll cross that bridge if and when I come to it. Another downside is that fuel economy is down 1-2 mpg. I assume that will get better as the tire breaks in and gets less sticky.
Anyway, one thing I've learned through this process is that you need to take reviews with a grain of salt. It's important to focus on reviews by people who drive the same car as you and/or have the same size tire with the same load/speed rating. I'm sure the A/S 3 is a great tire, and I know that Michelin makes the tire in a non XL version in other sizes, which would make a huge difference.
One last thought. I never did get a chance to try the Continental DWS. I know the tire gets great reviews amongst 3GS owners. It's a bit hypocritcal for me to say this, but some of the reviews of that tire scared me away because while most were overwhelmingly positive, the negative ones all seemed to share common themes -- flat spotting, increased noise after a few thousand miles, premature wear, and incredibly soft sidewalls.
Please post up any questions you have and I'd be happy to answer them.
e
First, a little about me and my car. I have a 2006 GS430 with g-spyder 18s (tire size 245 40 18). I bought the car CPO in March 2012 with 50k miles on it. At the time, the car had Pilot Sport A/S Plus (93Y load/speed rating) with a about 60% tread left (so they were not replaced under the CPO certification process).
I am 45 years old, married, kids, etc. About 90% of my miles are highway miles at 75 mph. Quiet and comfort is important to me, but I also like to toss the car around a bit on the weekends.
I put 25k miles on the A/S Plus that came with the car. They were down to 2/32nds, so it was time to replace them.
First, here are my impressions on my first set of A/S Plus. They were great. Quiet and comfortable on the highway. I know a lot of people have reported the dreaded rightward pull with these tires, but for whatever reason, my first set of A/S Plus didn't have the problem. Gas mileage was pretty good too. I was averaging 23 mpg per tank, sometimes a little more depending on how fast I drove on the highway. Towards the end, the tires got a little noisier and firmer, but that's to be expected when the tread depth is in the 2/32nds range. It was time for a new set of tires.
I researched the crap out of this before I made my decision. I ended up going with the Bridgestone Turanza Serenity Plus, 245 40 18 in a 93W rating. I had a set of the Turanza LS-Z (the predecessor to the Serenity) on my previous car (99 GS400 with 235 45 17) that I loved, so I assumed the Serenity Plus would be even better. As advertised, the tires were incredibly quiet and comfy. In fact, for the first few days with them, it took some time getting used to the fact that I was hearing all sorts of wind noise and even tire noise from the cars around me because the tires on my car were whisper quiet. They also got great gas mileage. On my first full tank with them, I want to say I averaged around 24 mpg. That's the good, now here's the bad. The side walls were incredibly soft. The car wallowed through corners. Even the most mundane turns were an adventure. And let's be clear, I'm not Mario Andretti. I'm talking about turning from street A onto perpendicular street B. At times, it felt like the sidewall of the tire was going to roll under itself. I literally had to adjust my driving style as a result. And cloverleafs, well, forget about it, I really had to take it easy around those. After 30 days, I decided to exercise Bridgestone's buy and try guarantee and get a new set of tires.
I would have gone back to my beloved A/S Plus, but Michelin was no longer making them, so I opted for the A/S 3 instead (245 40 18, 97Y XL). Once on, I immediately noticed that the performance was back. It was unreal. The car cornered like it was on rails. I didn't have to brake going into most corners. On dry pavement, traction was outstanding. On wet pavement, traction was equally outstanding. I didn't get a chance to drive them in the snow, but I would expect that they would be equal to their predecessor, the A/S Plus. As an added benefit, unlike the directional A/S Plus, the A/S 3 are non-directional which allows for side to side rotation. Fuel economy was good, not as good as the Serenity Plus but equal to or better than the A/S Plus. Now the bad. These tires were loud, period, both around town and on the highway. Not enjoyable at all. And, to make matters worse, the ride was very firm, downright harsh over some bumps. You literally felt every bump and imperfection in the road, and for the larger bumps, the car would literally feel like it was crashing over them. Over the course of that month, I must have talked to 10 people at Tirerack and Michelin to try to figure out what the heck was going on here. After all, I read the reviews, and everyone is RAVING about these tires. Sure, for some, they were still in the honeymoon period, but for me, it was if I didn't even have a honeymoon -- I wanted a divorce the same night I got married. I finally was able to have my issue elevated at Michelin and I spoke to a technical supervisor. In short, he wasn't surprised that I was feeling what I was feeling. He explained that the main difference between the A/S Plus and A/S 3 in my size was the load rating. The A/S Plus was a 93y, the A/S 3 was a 97yXL. So not only was the load rating slightly higher (93 versus 97), but the 97 was an XL (extra load), which means that the sidewalls of the tire are reinforced to carry an extra load. Also, according to Michelin, the rubber compound for the A/S 3 is a much harder compound than the A/S Plus. All of this adds up to outstanding handling for the A/S 3, but at the expense of noise and ride comfort.
I was coming up on my 30 days and needed to make a decision. I knew I couldn't stick with the A/S 3 in 97yXL, but I wasn't sure what to go with. I had the option of getting the A/S 3 in a 97vXL rating, but according to Michelin, I wouldn't feel much difference between the V and Y rated A/S 3. Then, a few days before my 30 days was up, my Lexus dealer was able to locate a set of A/S Plus (again, in 93y), so I snapped them up. They were installed a week ago Friday (by the way, 2213 is the manufacture date code, for those wondering). The noise is back down and the ride quality is back up. In short, I have my car back -- Lexus ride quality with a nice dose of performance. I am having a slight problem with pulling, particularly on crowned surfaces, but the problem seems to be lessening as the tires break in. I'm hopeful that it will go away completely in a few thousand miles (which might explain why I never had the issue with the first set of A/S Plus that came on my car). One huge downside is that if I have a blowout and need to replace a tire, I may be completely out of luck because there might not be any left around in my size. I'll cross that bridge if and when I come to it. Another downside is that fuel economy is down 1-2 mpg. I assume that will get better as the tire breaks in and gets less sticky.
Anyway, one thing I've learned through this process is that you need to take reviews with a grain of salt. It's important to focus on reviews by people who drive the same car as you and/or have the same size tire with the same load/speed rating. I'm sure the A/S 3 is a great tire, and I know that Michelin makes the tire in a non XL version in other sizes, which would make a huge difference.
One last thought. I never did get a chance to try the Continental DWS. I know the tire gets great reviews amongst 3GS owners. It's a bit hypocritcal for me to say this, but some of the reviews of that tire scared me away because while most were overwhelmingly positive, the negative ones all seemed to share common themes -- flat spotting, increased noise after a few thousand miles, premature wear, and incredibly soft sidewalls.
Please post up any questions you have and I'd be happy to answer them.
e
Last edited by e-man; 12-04-13 at 09:14 PM.
12-05-13, 08:09 AM
#2
Lexus Champion
wow... what a read. LOL Long post but informative.
I had only Continental, so can't really connect with you. I know what you mean about taking reviews with a grain of salt. BTW, if I remember correctly Tirerack have filter on reviews. You can put in exactly what car and location of the reviews you only want to see. Love these Tirerack guy, make it a bit easier to educate/compare/select the tire.
DWS, if you drive every day you shouldn't worry about the flat spot.
There is another tire thread with lots of feedback from 3GS owners. Did you read that before making all these selection?
I had only Continental, so can't really connect with you. I know what you mean about taking reviews with a grain of salt. BTW, if I remember correctly Tirerack have filter on reviews. You can put in exactly what car and location of the reviews you only want to see. Love these Tirerack guy, make it a bit easier to educate/compare/select the tire.
DWS, if you drive every day you shouldn't worry about the flat spot.
There is another tire thread with lots of feedback from 3GS owners. Did you read that before making all these selection?
12-05-13, 12:28 PM
#3
Great post, e-man! I too have had A/S Plus on my GS, and while I did like the comfort and quietness these soft-rubber tires have to offer, I wasn't particularly fond of the outside wear patterns, tread life, or price. I have since switched to Bridgestone Potenza RE970, although I do miss the quietness of the Michelins from time to time.
12-05-13, 01:47 PM
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I have Continental DW on my car (doesn't snow in CA). They are quiet and smooth but like your description of the Serenity Plus above they corner like hell. They are also prone to flat spotting even after 1-2 days of sitting. Horrible, can't wait till they wear out.
12-06-13, 06:56 AM
#5
But... I'm on stock AWD suspension with F-Sport sways. The roll resistance per degree of deflection is lower on my setup than your F-Sport full suspension. I bet the geometry saturates your tire before utilizing suspension compliance.
SO... case in point, suspension setup geometry and tire pressure affects A LOT.
12-12-13, 12:51 PM
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Good point Simmsled...checked my tire pressure and they were 32 psi or about all the way around. Increased them to what you have and it does seem to ride better. Sometimes it is the easy things we miss...
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12-12-13, 01:26 PM
#8
Nice. Increasing the rear tire pressure any more than 33 or 34 causes the center of the tire to wear faster than the outer edges... the front does not experience this phenomenon.
03-25-14, 04:59 PM
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Tires for 2008 GS350 RWD
I have been reading this string of issues and can offer my experiences.
First i boought my GS Matador Red in Nov 2007 and changed the noisy Yoko's on the first day to what the dealer said was a great tire....Dunlop.....These tires slasted on 25k and were completly out of whack. I was **** about pressure and rotation......SInce i had a deal for free tires I had to replace with same....even though I asked if I could change to Bridgstone or Michilin.....they said no. But whne I went to pick car up, they had put Yoko's Avan 10s on. I left the car there at 0800 and never got a call so I called at 1630. Was told that car was ready and the problem was that they did not have the Dunlop and installed Yoko's. I asked when the car was fininshed and was told 1230. So the only question I had was why i was not called and asked about installing a different tire. No answer.
Since it was closing time and i have to retune home to San Jose ( dealer in Irvine) i had to take these....i have to say they were more quiet and lasted 46k miles. Becasue these tires cost $385+, i looked at thenew Michilin Pilot Super Sports 245x45x18ZR........soft rubber I was not found of......but got 34k miles from them so I pout on a second set......I get about 28mpg in town and 31-33mpg at 80mph in 100= temperatures. Somewhat noisy but not like the screaming banchee for Dunlop. I would have put eh Yoko's back on but the price was too much. Great handling, cornering and wet road capability.....9 on a scale of 10 and I woudl recommend. Currently i have 120k on my baby and 16k on tires...they look brand new. I run 33psi all the way around and balance and rotate every 5k.....it is free so I love to do it. Have aligned the car 2 times...After the first tire change to Yokos and one on the change to the Pilot Super Sports. The second set of PSS no alignment was necessary. Tires run true, no pull and wears straight accross. I paid approx 1025 for 4 tires, spin balance, new air pressure sensors, and nitrogen fill. Great tires on the oopen road and I would recommend without reservation...
O. K. Upchurch III
Irvine, Ca
First i boought my GS Matador Red in Nov 2007 and changed the noisy Yoko's on the first day to what the dealer said was a great tire....Dunlop.....These tires slasted on 25k and were completly out of whack. I was **** about pressure and rotation......SInce i had a deal for free tires I had to replace with same....even though I asked if I could change to Bridgstone or Michilin.....they said no. But whne I went to pick car up, they had put Yoko's Avan 10s on. I left the car there at 0800 and never got a call so I called at 1630. Was told that car was ready and the problem was that they did not have the Dunlop and installed Yoko's. I asked when the car was fininshed and was told 1230. So the only question I had was why i was not called and asked about installing a different tire. No answer.
Since it was closing time and i have to retune home to San Jose ( dealer in Irvine) i had to take these....i have to say they were more quiet and lasted 46k miles. Becasue these tires cost $385+, i looked at thenew Michilin Pilot Super Sports 245x45x18ZR........soft rubber I was not found of......but got 34k miles from them so I pout on a second set......I get about 28mpg in town and 31-33mpg at 80mph in 100= temperatures. Somewhat noisy but not like the screaming banchee for Dunlop. I would have put eh Yoko's back on but the price was too much. Great handling, cornering and wet road capability.....9 on a scale of 10 and I woudl recommend. Currently i have 120k on my baby and 16k on tires...they look brand new. I run 33psi all the way around and balance and rotate every 5k.....it is free so I love to do it. Have aligned the car 2 times...After the first tire change to Yokos and one on the change to the Pilot Super Sports. The second set of PSS no alignment was necessary. Tires run true, no pull and wears straight accross. I paid approx 1025 for 4 tires, spin balance, new air pressure sensors, and nitrogen fill. Great tires on the oopen road and I would recommend without reservation...
O. K. Upchurch III
Irvine, Ca
11-24-14, 02:11 PM
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I have a 2006 GS430 and want to get off the current Dunlap Run Flats. Was thinking about going with the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 245/40R18 97V (28713) which I found a good deal on. Any thoughts? My only concern here is the 97V rating, is this too low? I don't plan on driving too fast, maybe 120mph max on a highly-rare occurance.
11-24-14, 02:46 PM
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I never had the a/s 3 in 97v. Mine were 97y as I recall. It's possible that I has a bad set, but the tires were loud and very harsh riding compared to the a/a plus. I went back to the a/s plus a year ago and couldn't be happier.
11-25-14, 06:06 AM
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Thanks. I assumed that the A/S plus would be the harsher or of the two considering that runflat nature. From reading the above however, it doesn't seem other people experienced that.
Sounds like the only drawback to going with the A/S plus would be the inability to rotate side-to-side, and price of course.
I think I'll go the A/S plus route, but would be interested to hear any other thoughts.
Sounds like the only drawback to going with the A/S plus would be the inability to rotate side-to-side, and price of course.
I think I'll go the A/S plus route, but would be interested to hear any other thoughts.
11-25-14, 07:57 AM
#14
I'm a Michelin tire man myself...I tried the Continental DW after having the Pilot Super Sport and was not impressed with the wet or dry handling...not to mention they were loud. I wanted something that would last longer than the Super Sports. So I went with the Pilot Sport A/S 3 and while they are close to the Super Sports they are a little noisier but no worse than the DW.
I'll be going back to the PSS when these wear out...I guess where I live I really don't have a need for A/S tires...
I'll be going back to the PSS when these wear out...I guess where I live I really don't have a need for A/S tires...