Is there a consensus on F-Sport Sway Bars?
03-13-13, 09:42 AM
#46
This question has been addressed to some extent, but I'd appreciate any input that could add more info on the effect of the F-Sport sways on the ride. We all know that the car will react to quick turns by staying much flatter, and the steering being much more responsive in feel.
I know that technically, on smooth roads, the actual ride will not be affected where the left tires and right tires are encountering the same rises and falls. The arms on the bars on left and right will be moving up and down simultaneously = no effect on ride.
But, where the road undulations are different on the left and right, the sway arms will not be moving together, but one side will be resisting movement, resulting in effect of an additional spring coming into play. Thus the ride will be stiffer than stock sways when encountering bumps on one side that are not on the other side.
So the real question is, how much stiffer is the ride when encountering surfaces where the left and right sides are different? I know this will be difficult to describe, but I'd love any feedback anyone can give that is using the F-Sport sways....
TIA,
gn
I know that technically, on smooth roads, the actual ride will not be affected where the left tires and right tires are encountering the same rises and falls. The arms on the bars on left and right will be moving up and down simultaneously = no effect on ride.
But, where the road undulations are different on the left and right, the sway arms will not be moving together, but one side will be resisting movement, resulting in effect of an additional spring coming into play. Thus the ride will be stiffer than stock sways when encountering bumps on one side that are not on the other side.
So the real question is, how much stiffer is the ride when encountering surfaces where the left and right sides are different? I know this will be difficult to describe, but I'd love any feedback anyone can give that is using the F-Sport sways....
TIA,
gn
03-14-13, 07:15 AM
#47
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I purchased mine from Sewell for $381.50 + shipping. Be sure to register as a CL member before placing the order for a significant discount (normal price is $495).
http://lexus.sewellparts.com/accesso...2009/2889.html
http://lexus.sewellparts.com/accesso...2009/2889.html
gn
03-16-13, 05:12 PM
#48
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Another question:
While I spent over 20 years in the IT industry, I'm a hands-on mechanic who has been turning wrenches on cars, trucks and motorcycles for over 50 years, have my own shop and 10,000 lb. lift in my 4-car garage......so I'm planning to do the sway bar installation myself.
Anyone here done your own install? Somewhere I read it wasn't too hard if you were an experienced mechanic. Perhaps 2 hours on a lift. Generally sway bars are a piece of cake - but I've never messed with them on an AWD car like the Lexus before.....4x4 trucks are simple.
Anything I should look out for?
Expecting bars to arrive mid-week next week. Then have a big trip to So. Florida.....
While I spent over 20 years in the IT industry, I'm a hands-on mechanic who has been turning wrenches on cars, trucks and motorcycles for over 50 years, have my own shop and 10,000 lb. lift in my 4-car garage......so I'm planning to do the sway bar installation myself.
Anyone here done your own install? Somewhere I read it wasn't too hard if you were an experienced mechanic. Perhaps 2 hours on a lift. Generally sway bars are a piece of cake - but I've never messed with them on an AWD car like the Lexus before.....4x4 trucks are simple.
Anything I should look out for?
Expecting bars to arrive mid-week next week. Then have a big trip to So. Florida.....
03-17-13, 08:33 AM
#49
Comprehensive install instructions are on Sewell's site.
Here is the situation...
The end links get rusty and can be a MAJOR pain in the a$$. Make sure to have some PB Blaster on hand!
Here is the situation...
The end links get rusty and can be a MAJOR pain in the a$$. Make sure to have some PB Blaster on hand!
03-17-13, 11:04 AM
#50
Lead Lap
Speaking as someone who installed those sways on my 2008, I think it's a huge waste of money. No noticeable difference and I didn't get the revised bushings for the noises until 1 month before the car was totaled.
As for the 4GS F-Sport GS350...I have seen no mention of the sway bars on my current car being what the F-Sport accessory sway bars are. There is nothing listed on the website, window sticker, or anything. The 4GS handling is night and day though from the 3GS...it's really no comparison.
As for the 4GS F-Sport GS350...I have seen no mention of the sway bars on my current car being what the F-Sport accessory sway bars are. There is nothing listed on the website, window sticker, or anything. The 4GS handling is night and day though from the 3GS...it's really no comparison.
03-17-13, 02:11 PM
#51
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The car has only been on the road 3 years so hopefully they won't be too bad. Can you get an impact wrench in there? Probably not.....
03-17-13, 02:26 PM
#52
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Speaking as someone who installed those sways on my 2008, I think it's a huge waste of money. No noticeable difference and I didn't get the revised bushings for the noises until 1 month before the car was totaled.
As for the 4GS F-Sport GS350...I have seen no mention of the sway bars on my current car being what the F-Sport accessory sway bars are. There is nothing listed on the website, window sticker, or anything. The 4GS handling is night and day though from the 3GS...it's really no comparison.
As for the 4GS F-Sport GS350...I have seen no mention of the sway bars on my current car being what the F-Sport accessory sway bars are. There is nothing listed on the website, window sticker, or anything. The 4GS handling is night and day though from the 3GS...it's really no comparison.
Whether it is noticeable or not, significant or not, I guess is where the subjective judgment comes in.
I know the GS won't corner like my Cayman, so I'm not expecting that much. It was just the first thing I noticed driving our new '09 after years driving our '03 GS300 RWD - the old 300 responded better in the curves and quick turns, didn't roll as much - seemed like a much lighter car even thought the actual weight difference is only about 150 lbs.
I will say this about AWD though: Clearly in a sharp curve, once the sway bars have set and the initial roll has stopped - the cornering is superb - especially under power. Noticeable difference than RWD. The first AWD I ever drove was an Audi S4 and I'll never forget that great experience.....
You better believe that once my F-Sport bars are in, and I've taken some test rides, I'll give a thorough report on my thoughts.
I am fortunate that one mile from my house is an incredible 5 mile twisty test road where a lot of central VA performance drivers test out their cars. So my test track is literally next door.
I'll never forget when my 31 year old son - an excellent driver - pushed my Cayman through a 35mph curve on this road at over 60 - he said, "Holy Cow, DAD! You know what this car just said to me? 'Is that ALL you got?!?!?!' "
03-17-13, 03:02 PM
#53
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Speaking as someone who installed those sways on my 2008, I think it's a huge waste of money. No noticeable difference and I didn't get the revised bushings for the noises until 1 month before the car was totaled.
As for the 4GS F-Sport GS350...I have seen no mention of the sway bars on my current car being what the F-Sport accessory sway bars are. There is nothing listed on the website, window sticker, or anything. The 4GS handling is night and day though from the 3GS...it's really no comparison.
As for the 4GS F-Sport GS350...I have seen no mention of the sway bars on my current car being what the F-Sport accessory sway bars are. There is nothing listed on the website, window sticker, or anything. The 4GS handling is night and day though from the 3GS...it's really no comparison.
Love to see some pics, J........did you drive the standard '13 GS350 AWD? Wondering how it compares with the F-Sport.....
gn
03-17-13, 03:41 PM
#54
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J - well, you are one of the very few who seem to think this way - and mine will be here Wednesday so there is no turning back for me. I find it hard to believe that there isn't a noticeable difference in flattening sharp, quick corners somewhat, and making the steering more precise and responsive - just from the fact that that's exactly what sway bars affect - and stiffer sway bars invariably improve handling to some degree.
Whether it is noticeable or not, significant or not, I guess is where the subjective judgment comes in.
I know the GS won't corner like my Cayman, so I'm not expecting that much. It was just the first thing I noticed driving our new '09 after years driving our '03 GS300 RWD - the old 300 responded better in the curves and quick turns, didn't roll as much - seemed like a much lighter car even thought the actual weight difference is only about 150 lbs.
I will say this about AWD though: Clearly in a sharp curve, once the sway bars have set and the initial roll has stopped - the cornering is superb - especially under power. Noticeable difference than RWD. The first AWD I ever drove was an Audi S4 and I'll never forget that great experience.....
You better believe that once my F-Sport bars are in, and I've taken some test rides, I'll give a thorough report on my thoughts.
I am fortunate that one mile from my house is an incredible 5 mile twisty test road where a lot of central VA performance drivers test out their cars. So my test track is literally next door.
I'll never forget when my 31 year old son - an excellent driver - pushed my Cayman through a 35mph curve on this road at over 60 - he said, "Holy Cow, DAD! You know what this car just said to me? 'Is that ALL you got?!?!?!' "
Whether it is noticeable or not, significant or not, I guess is where the subjective judgment comes in.
I know the GS won't corner like my Cayman, so I'm not expecting that much. It was just the first thing I noticed driving our new '09 after years driving our '03 GS300 RWD - the old 300 responded better in the curves and quick turns, didn't roll as much - seemed like a much lighter car even thought the actual weight difference is only about 150 lbs.
I will say this about AWD though: Clearly in a sharp curve, once the sway bars have set and the initial roll has stopped - the cornering is superb - especially under power. Noticeable difference than RWD. The first AWD I ever drove was an Audi S4 and I'll never forget that great experience.....
You better believe that once my F-Sport bars are in, and I've taken some test rides, I'll give a thorough report on my thoughts.
I am fortunate that one mile from my house is an incredible 5 mile twisty test road where a lot of central VA performance drivers test out their cars. So my test track is literally next door.
I'll never forget when my 31 year old son - an excellent driver - pushed my Cayman through a 35mph curve on this road at over 60 - he said, "Holy Cow, DAD! You know what this car just said to me? 'Is that ALL you got?!?!?!' "
The install was nothing too crazy painful. I did the fronts first, pulled the car onto wheel ramps. Honestly, the hardest part was just removing all the bolts securing the lower engine cover. Once you have access to the sways, it's pretty straight forward. The end links were tight but nothing I couldn't handle without a decent length socket wrench. I left the lower covers off as I'll be taking them off again when I do the springs. The rears actually gave me a little more trouble because I could barely get a socket onto the passenger side end link so leverage was a major PITA. I ended up removing all the other bolts and the driver side end link (was pretty easy actually) so I could manuever the sway bar around for easier access to the end link. It was still tough as nuts but I was eventually able to break it lose. Putting on the new rear sway, I lightly secured each end link (the instructions that came with the sway bars also mentions to do this first) before attaching the other 4 bolts on the clips. The rest was smooth, just tighten down and torque everything.
By the way, my local Lexus dealer (Tacoma of Fife Lexus) quoted me $375 for labor, FOR EACH AXLE!?! I about laughed in his face and had to mentally restrain myself from going completely nuts on them. Needless to say, I did call them crazy and said I'd do it myself. Total time for me from start to finish: 3 hours (probably another 15-20 if I were to put the lower engine covers back on). This was with my limited tools, no lift, and never having done this before. Apparently the dealer charges $250/hour?!?
I think you'll end up loving the change, I know I do!
Last edited by anthrax144; 03-17-13 at 03:44 PM.
03-18-13, 07:35 AM
#55
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Anthrax -
You just made my day and I'm smilin' an ear-to-ear grin.....cannot wait! Wednesday afternoon the GS goes on the lift and I'm going to work. I suspected the pan would be a headache - now I can prepare mentally.
Have the instructions printed out, and as I do in everything, I'll have it memorized before the sways get here.......I hate not being prepared more than anything else and don't like surprises. When I lived in Ohio, friend from Colorado insisted on taking me home and teaching me to ski. I said, "No, you are going to teach me to ski before we leave...." Studied snow skiiing rigorously before I went (I was an excellent slalom water-skier = and there was no internet then), and was hitting intermediate slopes on Day 3 at Vail. Last day tried an expert slope, but decided rolling/falling/tumbling down a steep slope wasn't fun, so gave up on that.....
Your thoughts seem to represent the majority of F-Sport sway owners.....strange how J and some others can experience the same thing and have such different thoughts.......
You just made my day and I'm smilin' an ear-to-ear grin.....cannot wait! Wednesday afternoon the GS goes on the lift and I'm going to work. I suspected the pan would be a headache - now I can prepare mentally.
Have the instructions printed out, and as I do in everything, I'll have it memorized before the sways get here.......I hate not being prepared more than anything else and don't like surprises. When I lived in Ohio, friend from Colorado insisted on taking me home and teaching me to ski. I said, "No, you are going to teach me to ski before we leave...." Studied snow skiiing rigorously before I went (I was an excellent slalom water-skier = and there was no internet then), and was hitting intermediate slopes on Day 3 at Vail. Last day tried an expert slope, but decided rolling/falling/tumbling down a steep slope wasn't fun, so gave up on that.....
Your thoughts seem to represent the majority of F-Sport sway owners.....strange how J and some others can experience the same thing and have such different thoughts.......
So I just installed mine this weekend and it is most definitely a night and day difference. Coming from my previous IS350, the handling of my GS felt like a boat with all the body roll while cornering. Not any more! I feel like it's still a tiny bit behind the IS in handling but it has been greatly improved by the F-Sport sways. I'll be putting some slightly stiffer and lower springs on in the next couple weekends so I think that should put it right on par with the lighter IS.
The install was nothing too crazy painful. I did the fronts first, pulled the car onto wheel ramps. Honestly, the hardest part was just removing all the bolts securing the lower engine cover. Once you have access to the sways, it's pretty straight forward. The end links were tight but nothing I couldn't handle without a decent length socket wrench. I left the lower covers off as I'll be taking them off again when I do the springs. The rears actually gave me a little more trouble because I could barely get a socket onto the passenger side end link so leverage was a major PITA. I ended up removing all the other bolts and the driver side end link (was pretty easy actually) so I could manuever the sway bar around for easier access to the end link. It was still tough as nuts but I was eventually able to break it lose. Putting on the new rear sway, I lightly secured each end link (the instructions that came with the sway bars also mentions to do this first) before attaching the other 4 bolts on the clips. The rest was smooth, just tighten down and torque everything.
By the way, my local Lexus dealer (Tacoma of Fife Lexus) quoted me $375 for labor, FOR EACH AXLE!?! I about laughed in his face and had to mentally restrain myself from going completely nuts on them. Needless to say, I did call them crazy and said I'd do it myself. Total time for me from start to finish: 3 hours (probably another 15-20 if I were to put the lower engine covers back on). This was with my limited tools, no lift, and never having done this before. Apparently the dealer charges $250/hour?!?
I think you'll end up loving the change, I know I do!
The install was nothing too crazy painful. I did the fronts first, pulled the car onto wheel ramps. Honestly, the hardest part was just removing all the bolts securing the lower engine cover. Once you have access to the sways, it's pretty straight forward. The end links were tight but nothing I couldn't handle without a decent length socket wrench. I left the lower covers off as I'll be taking them off again when I do the springs. The rears actually gave me a little more trouble because I could barely get a socket onto the passenger side end link so leverage was a major PITA. I ended up removing all the other bolts and the driver side end link (was pretty easy actually) so I could manuever the sway bar around for easier access to the end link. It was still tough as nuts but I was eventually able to break it lose. Putting on the new rear sway, I lightly secured each end link (the instructions that came with the sway bars also mentions to do this first) before attaching the other 4 bolts on the clips. The rest was smooth, just tighten down and torque everything.
By the way, my local Lexus dealer (Tacoma of Fife Lexus) quoted me $375 for labor, FOR EACH AXLE!?! I about laughed in his face and had to mentally restrain myself from going completely nuts on them. Needless to say, I did call them crazy and said I'd do it myself. Total time for me from start to finish: 3 hours (probably another 15-20 if I were to put the lower engine covers back on). This was with my limited tools, no lift, and never having done this before. Apparently the dealer charges $250/hour?!?
I think you'll end up loving the change, I know I do!
03-18-13, 09:51 AM
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03-18-13, 09:54 AM
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Disconnect battery & steering rack wiring harness..
Ok, I'm usually a stickler for following factory instructions, but I'm wondering if it is really necessary to disconnect the battery before disconnecting the steering rack wiring harness......
Hate to lose so many settings on so many things by disconnecting the battery. If one is very careful, there should be no problem disconnecting the steering wiring harness without disconnecting the battery......or is there?
Anyone know?
Thanks,
gn
Hate to lose so many settings on so many things by disconnecting the battery. If one is very careful, there should be no problem disconnecting the steering wiring harness without disconnecting the battery......or is there?
Anyone know?
Thanks,
gn
03-18-13, 11:21 AM
#59
Thanks! PB Blaster is always a stocked item in my shop and one of the most essential! And after years I've never found anything better.......
The car has only been on the road 3 years so hopefully they won't be too bad. Can you get an impact wrench in there? Probably not.....
The car has only been on the road 3 years so hopefully they won't be too bad. Can you get an impact wrench in there? Probably not.....
Speaking as someone who installed those sways on my 2008, I think it's a huge waste of money. No noticeable difference and I didn't get the revised bushings for the noises until 1 month before the car was totaled.
As for the 4GS F-Sport GS350...I have seen no mention of the sway bars on my current car being what the F-Sport accessory sway bars are. There is nothing listed on the website, window sticker, or anything. The 4GS handling is night and day though from the 3GS...it's really no comparison.
As for the 4GS F-Sport GS350...I have seen no mention of the sway bars on my current car being what the F-Sport accessory sway bars are. There is nothing listed on the website, window sticker, or anything. The 4GS handling is night and day though from the 3GS...it's really no comparison.
Last edited by bigblack06; 03-18-13 at 11:26 AM.
03-18-13, 01:19 PM
#60
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I have an f sport exhaust, it's great except for the price, I think it's $1400 on Sewell. I would of went with an Invidia with their mid pipe if I had to do it all over again tho. The price and sound in that system are awesome.