ItsChris

iTrader: (16)

So just to give you guys a little story again, I'll try to keep it to a minimum or a cliff notes version.

I'd like to get your guys opinion on what should I do?

History:

I bought a 2006 Lexus GS300 GFM/Black interior w/35k miles Certified preowned CLEAN CAR FAX on OCT 31, 2009.

1 day later after ownership, I wash the car and find out the rear bumper is not aligned with the rear quarter panel and a section is not shiny, its dull. So I call lexus the dealer that same day, and tell them, "hey, I think the car has been in some kind of accident", so they said, to bring the car back, no problems.

After 3 days, I pick up the car, and the bumper is somewhat not aligned still but the section has been buffed out. I get a message from the sales guy that the dealer knew the car has been in a minor fender bender, but wasnt bad. So I say okay.

Now comes 1 week ago (DECEMBER 26, 2009). I parked at a parking structure, and I come to my car and there is a dent and scratch on the rear quarter panel and rear bumper...so im pissed and mad, call the insurance blah blah and they said they will take care of it. So I dropped off the car yesterday.

My friend calls me today (DECEMEMBER 27, 2009), because yesterday I was explaining to him what happened, and also tell him about the history of the rear bumper not alligning correctly.

He pulls the rear bumper off, and..."WOW"..he calls me up..and says..."dude you gotta see these pictures of the car"...Apparently, the car was in a bigger accident, and the frame is crumpled at a certain area...and there is RUST..all over it, I called the dealer, and see what they are going to do....My insurance will not cover it because it is a previous damage..obviously.


My question is...what should I do? Should I tell them I dont want the car anymore? CLEARLY, they sold a CERTIFIED PREOWNED CAR, with an accident w/o telling the customer.. the car fax says the dealer was the ONLY owner and it was a corporate car.

WOW..lexus...WOW...

Should I sue the dealer? Get a new car? Apparently they sold me a CPO car with clearly an accident and some other "hidden stuff"

Sucks, that I've only had the car for 2 months....and all this happens.

Pics of the car

IXI187IXI

iTrader: (3)

the sales man does not have to disclose to you if the car has been in an accident. further more carfax only shows what was reported. if they chose to fix the car out of pocket, there would be no history of it. i would talk to the dealer and see what they can do. i dont know laws on CPOs but i think its the buyers responsibility when buying used. Sorry to hear about the bad luck.

I'll sell you my GFM on black GS

ivanz

If it is a CPO, it clearly has to be accident free/mint condition (check the Lexus CPO details). At the very least they should buy the car back from you. If they don't want to, I'm sure Lexus USA has to because it was clearly not a CPO car.

HomieG

I don't think the CPO program states the car cannot have been in a accident, rather it says it can't have a salvage title or major accident issues. Hard to tell from the pics, but this doesn't look to be all that bad. Sure it's not right, but it is repairable. Don't see where frame rails and/or subframe were damaged. Seems a bit exagerated to say there is rust all over the previous damage, but I can understand why you are PO-ed.

Don't understand why current insurance company won't pay for the new damage and unless I missed something don't see how it relates to the former damage.

Sure, this all sucks, and the dealer should have disclosed what they knew. To me, it looks like the car backed into something in that LR corner. I'd surely ask for them to take the car back and at minimum find an accident-free replacement, or refund the purchase price. Hopefully they are not jerks about all of this.

I'd love for someone to show us clearly and definitively where CPO cars are defined as having never been in any accident of any kind whereby that would rule out them not being capable of being certified. Think of what CPO says, certified pre-owned. I only see where they are checked out thoroughly, and any necessary repairs made, but except for a salvage title, I don't see an exclusion for any accident. Please prove me wrong!

ivanz

Yeah, I guess that's what they define an accident to be. Regardless, it still does not qualify for CPO just from these lines out of ~130

It cannot have no signs of serious frame repairs no matter who fixes them. Hence why I would say they have to be accident free.

HomieG

Hmmm, don't see a total exclusion like that at all on the US Lexus CPO website, or on the most recent CPO form I have (dated 2006).

http://www.lexus.com/cpo/pdf/CPO_161_Checklist.pdf

And let's make sure we're talking about body damage here, not frame damage...

Don't see where it cannot be repaired, so long as it meets factory standards, and not be visible, yadda, yadda, yadda. You can be the whole CPO program has been reviewed by many lawyers to protect Lexus, not the customer...

Looks like the dealers responsibility is to fix the issue(s) to a certain standard, not exclude the vehicle from being sold as CPO for any accident damage which can be repaired.

OP, did you get a copy of the actual CPO checklist?

Still, all in all, sucks that any dealer did this, but as a the customer, you need to prove they knew the extent of the original damage. And in most cases, have any used car checked out by your own mechanic (not the dealer) before it is purchased...one with loyalty to you, not to the seller...CPO or not!

aristo2369

iTrader: (2)

Wow that sucks.... well first they lied... Used car salesman knew about the damage when he go the car from a used dealer action or as trade ... Second... dont you pay a little more for the car to be Lexus certified Pre owned? Third.... i would not want to deal with the fact on insurance find this and not covering your car in the future..... Huge problem in the future when it comes to Prior damage work/quality etc and insurance..... I say have them buy the car back if not report that to local TV station... im sure discrediting the " Lexus Pre Owned" point will hurt

lkapimp216

iTrader: (2)

Keep the car the damage is minor and make them give you some money back if that doesn t work return all together CPO is all a hustle to make thousands of dollars more on used vehicles. If the consumer is inexperienced on what to look for they should find someone who is experienced in bodywork or mechanic when buying any used vehicle. I bought mine with low mileage uncertified and it saved me thousands, however one of my good friends was a body man for 12 years and now is an automotive insurance adjuster that knew what to look for the car rode great, no shakes or jiggles, tires wear even never a problem! good luck!!

*Batman*

I would contact Lexus by phone and file a complaint. They have to get back to you within 24 or 48 hours I think. You should ask them to either make the dealer buy back the car, or for Lexus to buy back the car or replace it with a crash-free CPO.

If they don't cooperate, I would threaten to go to the press (Jalopnik, Autoblog, Edmunds, etc.). Given all the bad press Lexus has been recieving recently, they don't need this.

I don't blame Lexus, I blame the dealer. Unfortunately every OEM has a few bad dealers - O had a very similar experience with BMW once. However I would expect Lexus to do the right thing here, and I have every confidence they will.

ivanz

The US might be different, but they should be close. Complete list:
http://www.lexus.ca/lexus/experience..._certified.jsp


OP said frame damage in the original post.
Well the way I interpret it is that if frame damage is visible (which it always will be if it was in a major accident), then it doesn't qualify. However, I am not a lawyer.
I would say only minor damage is acceptable according to the list. Since it would violate a bunch of them.

I would say its obvious since the OP said the bumper was not aligned (it has to according to CPO in the first place!) and they "fixed" it. When they "fixed" it, they had to see the frame damage+rust. So I would say it is a clear cut case. I don't know about your state, but here not declaring damage above $2,000 when selling a car is a very serious offense along the lines of fraud.

The whole point of CPO is not *not* have to worry about this stuff. It looks like dealers in Canada and the USA are abusing this and damaging the brand!

spine911

iTrader: (4)

I am sorry about your situation considering you paid a premium price for a "CPO" car with an outstanding hidden body damage.

In my book; CPO, Edmunds, CarFax/Autocheck are just marketing strategy tools by the dealer.

I would NEVER pay premium for a CPO car (with a perfect Carfax/Autocheck history)...I NEVER trust any of these dealer "tools"- i always do my OWN inspection (interior,exterior,engine,etc) and decide from there.
Most of these "CPO" autos are just inspected for basic wear issues("the cleaner-the better" backed up by a "clean" Carfax/autocheck history.
An accident that did not have an insurance claim,police report will come out with a clean slate.

IMO; a CPO is nothing but a glorified extended warranty- an expensive warranty coverage.

dadoody

iTrader: (1)

I don't trust the dealerships much.

Back when I was shopping for a Lexus, the dealership in Newport Beach tried to sell me a 2005 GS430 for 28k. Had 80k miles and I told the salesman I'd search around some more - it had a lot of miles for the price. Salesman informs me that I should buy that car because I could trust that the car being in Newport Beach saw better days then if I bought one in LA that saw a lot of stop and go + pot holes and whatever.

I look up the car on Car Fax and saw that it was shipped from Denver, CO - salesman straight up lied to my face about where it was from.

So, I go to Nash Auto in Costa Mesa. Not a Lexus dealership, but they mostly sell Toyota and Lexus cars. They inform me that Toyota and Lexus dealerships buy their used cars from auction - not locally as you might think. They go to the same auctions.

I get a 2006 Lexus GS430 from Nash Auto for 31k. Only had 25k miles on it. Carfax shows that it was a fleet lease car in Thousand Oaks.
Had it inspected by my mechanic friend who clears it as being in great condition. Had some minor warranty work done, and 1.5 years later, the car is still driving great. No problems.

Buying from the dealership ain't all it's cracked up to be.

ItsChris

iTrader: (16)

hey guys, thanks for the responses, yeah the damage is abit, but to me the "peace of mind" that the car hasnt been in ANY damage has been gone and tarnished. I talked to the Used car sales manager today, and at first they said, "they will take care of the rust and damage to the rear of the car and put an oem winshield on, but I clearly stated to him that my "peace of mind" with the car..is not there anymore and CLEARLY do not want the car, anymore.

When I get the car back from the body shop, the used car sales manager, requested to see the car to see what they can do.

I expressed my feelings to the used car sales manager that I do not want the car, so hopefully it will go in my favor of getting a clear CPO car, or a newer GS.

Just sucks, to know that even an lexus dealer cannot be trusted anymore, when buying a used car.

tmf2004

iTrader: (15)

Hope this gets taking care of in your favor. If its a good dealer they will stand behind there product and give you a car of equal value or newer Lexus.. Keep us updated.. I know how you feel man.. Were spending our hard earn money and we expect the product to be flawless.. This is pretty dishonest on the dealers part..

Yang1815

iTrader: (1)

That is epic fail. Sorry to hear that bro. Hope everything works out.