from Benz > Lexus... Why?
05-17-07, 06:02 AM
#16
Driver School Candidate
Add me to the list. Traded my S430 for a GS450h yesterday and couldn't be happier so far.
Terrible reliability and the MB service dept. is horrible. I dreaded taking my wifes S in for service but never minded taking my RX330 in. I told them every time I took it in that they should go next door to the Lexus store and have them teach them how to run a dealership!
Finally have the wife in a good brand!
Terrible reliability and the MB service dept. is horrible. I dreaded taking my wifes S in for service but never minded taking my RX330 in. I told them every time I took it in that they should go next door to the Lexus store and have them teach them how to run a dealership!
Finally have the wife in a good brand!
05-17-07, 10:17 AM
#17
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Add me to the list. Traded my S430 for a GS450h yesterday and couldn't be happier so far.
Terrible reliability and the MB service dept. is horrible. I dreaded taking my wifes S in for service but never minded taking my RX330 in. I told them every time I took it in that they should go next door to the Lexus store and have them teach them how to run a dealership!
Finally have the wife in a good brand!
Terrible reliability and the MB service dept. is horrible. I dreaded taking my wifes S in for service but never minded taking my RX330 in. I told them every time I took it in that they should go next door to the Lexus store and have them teach them how to run a dealership!
Finally have the wife in a good brand!
(that's why they hold up so well), the ride was really stiff, it had no sign of luxury on the inside, nearly all panels had signs of rust, and it wasn't very quick.On the flipside, my 99 GS400 has plush leather seats, a cushy ride, wood trim, navigation, no rust and 300hp.
I was contimplating getting an E430, but it felt very cumbersome and underpowered.
All things considered, I'm extreamly happy with my switch.
05-17-07, 02:42 PM
#18
Lexus Champion
Actually MB had a recall on the doors for rust but they can't really recall the other parts for rust so they do it under good will. It is a well known issue in the S-class especially if you live in parts of the country that has snow and salted roads which I live in Canada so the beach is nothing compared to salted roads. I had to wait 3-4months for MB to fix $15,000cdn (front fenders both sides, trunklid, all 4doors) of rust because they were backed up at their bodyshop because MB head office only allowed 2 cars per week and it still took me 4 months waiting time. Bodyshop and MB customer service told me of the primer problem because became good friends with them since I had 3 MB serviced and fixed with them. I was actually lucky compared to my friends MB which actually had an unbelievable $27,000cdn dollars of bodywork on his S-class basically all panels was changed out and whole car was repainted that is just unbelievable. And both our cars are accident free.
i've never had to deal with salted roads and that really sucks what happened to you...
05-17-07, 05:11 PM
#19
I still have an 01 S500 with only 30k miles.
Problems:
1) Gauge instrument recall
2) Trunk/batter liner recall due to static
3) Blower motor recall
Dealer replaced:
1) bad right cat
2) replaced sucky-a$$ range of the garage opener
3) replaced airmatic relay-could've been a nasty and costly repair
4) loose driver seat
It was a pretty boring car to drive...not that more exciting than an LS
Father in law wanted to drive it so it was his for awhile. He got a minivan and now the s is back with me. Was looking to trade it in for a CL/CLS but after a test drive in an S55, I'm going take the plunge.
I guess I'm one of the few with no major/electrical problems...yet
Service is still subpar to lexus.
I still have my other lexuseses with no problems.
Problems:
1) Gauge instrument recall
2) Trunk/batter liner recall due to static
3) Blower motor recall
Dealer replaced:
1) bad right cat
2) replaced sucky-a$$ range of the garage opener
3) replaced airmatic relay-could've been a nasty and costly repair
4) loose driver seat
It was a pretty boring car to drive...not that more exciting than an LS
Father in law wanted to drive it so it was his for awhile. He got a minivan and now the s is back with me. Was looking to trade it in for a CL/CLS but after a test drive in an S55, I'm going take the plunge.
I guess I'm one of the few with no major/electrical problems...yet
Service is still subpar to lexus.
I still have my other lexuseses with no problems.
05-18-07, 09:41 AM
#20
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I had a C280 and C320 Sport and now an SC430, and my dad has an S430 and GS450h. Both my wife and mom drive RXs. The only thing MB has going for them is the prestige because their automiles are not as well-built or as functional or as beautiful, in my opinion, as the Lexus line of cars.
I would gladly drive the SC anyday over my old C-class or dad's S-class. My dad uses his S-class as an everyday drive and the GSh as a weekend drive.
By far, the main reason to switch from MB is the outstanding Lexus service, which is like going from a Motel 6 to the Four Seasons!!! (Not that I have to take my Lexus in that often in the first place.)
I would gladly drive the SC anyday over my old C-class or dad's S-class. My dad uses his S-class as an everyday drive and the GSh as a weekend drive.
By far, the main reason to switch from MB is the outstanding Lexus service, which is like going from a Motel 6 to the Four Seasons!!! (Not that I have to take my Lexus in that often in the first place.)
05-25-07, 09:43 PM
#21
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MB = Massive Brick
Good decision of converting from European to Japanese, they are way more reliable.
Myself was also enthusiast for the European vehicles: S500, M3, 540i, and S4, they are all nothing but CRAP CRAP CRAP. Especially the S500, paid over $110k and spent another 40k to maintain the junk. I had the junk for over 5 years and only put less than 38k miles on it, due to the fact the vehicle was IN-SERVICE almost every other week.
Now I am the PROUD owner of LS430 and GS350, loving them everyday!!!
Myself was also enthusiast for the European vehicles: S500, M3, 540i, and S4, they are all nothing but CRAP CRAP CRAP. Especially the S500, paid over $110k and spent another 40k to maintain the junk. I had the junk for over 5 years and only put less than 38k miles on it, due to the fact the vehicle was IN-SERVICE almost every other week.
Now I am the PROUD owner of LS430 and GS350, loving them everyday!!!
05-25-07, 10:00 PM
#22
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Still own my S500 AMG.
Beautiful design and project overall with very poor implementation IMHO.
About 30% of the time my S spends in a shop, that's a little 2 much for $105K car, I think.
I'm not even raising the operating/service costs of my MBZ.
My new GS350AWD - just an amazing vehicle!
Beautiful design and project overall with very poor implementation IMHO.
About 30% of the time my S spends in a shop, that's a little 2 much for $105K car, I think.
I'm not even raising the operating/service costs of my MBZ.
My new GS350AWD - just an amazing vehicle!
11-08-08, 03:39 PM
#25
Pole Position
My dad owned a M Class for 5 years. Kept all of the service records...it was a telephone book..no exaggeration. "Gifted" it to my bro who proceeded to spend over $14,000 on it over 1.5 years. Sold it for a Honda. Whole family are now Japanese car converts.
As others have said, MB service is a complete and utter rip off.
And yes, it rattled more than my Lexus.
Finally, my question is the Lexus experience compared to BMW. Before buying the GS350, I looked at the 5 Series xi as its exterior is sharp. I went GS due to reliability, Interior (especially the stainless gauges, and smoothness of engine and ride)...and finally price. Couldnt justify at least a $5,000 premium...and that included the "PLEATHER" (fake leather).
As others have said, MB service is a complete and utter rip off.
And yes, it rattled more than my Lexus.
Finally, my question is the Lexus experience compared to BMW. Before buying the GS350, I looked at the 5 Series xi as its exterior is sharp. I went GS due to reliability, Interior (especially the stainless gauges, and smoothness of engine and ride)...and finally price. Couldnt justify at least a $5,000 premium...and that included the "PLEATHER" (fake leather).
11-08-08, 05:34 PM
#26
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My dad owned a M Class for 5 years. Kept all of the service records...it was a telephone book..no exaggeration. "Gifted" it to my bro who proceeded to spend over $14,000 on it over 1.5 years. Sold it for a Honda. Whole family are now Japanese car converts.
As others have said, MB service is a complete and utter rip off.
And yes, it rattled more than my Lexus.
Finally, my question is the Lexus experience compared to BMW. Before buying the GS350, I looked at the 5 Series xi as its exterior is sharp. I went GS due to reliability, Interior (especially the stainless gauges, and smoothness of engine and ride)...and finally price. Couldnt justify at least a $5,000 premium...and that included the "PLEATHER" (fake leather).
As others have said, MB service is a complete and utter rip off.
And yes, it rattled more than my Lexus.
Finally, my question is the Lexus experience compared to BMW. Before buying the GS350, I looked at the 5 Series xi as its exterior is sharp. I went GS due to reliability, Interior (especially the stainless gauges, and smoothness of engine and ride)...and finally price. Couldnt justify at least a $5,000 premium...and that included the "PLEATHER" (fake leather).
driving fun/feel/sportiness = BMW>MB>Lexus
reliability = Lexus>BMW>MB
The MBs I like over the Lexus really depends on the models and generation. The W140 S-Class and the previous gen absolutely sucks. I would prefer the current gen S-Class over the current-gen LS though.
1st-gen MLs are lousy and I prefer the 1st-gen RX over it. But I don't like the current-gen RX, therefore, I would go with the current-gen ML. X5s would be my choice among the current- & previous-generations of this class.
MBs have lousy quality for the past couple decades, but the current generations of MBs have improved.
As far as BMWs are concerned, they are the real 4-door sports cars (using Nissan's terms) that a lot of times, the price premium is very worth it. And what you call "pleather" is actually leatherette. They are not real leather, doesn't feel like real leather, but better than leather, looks like leather, and more durable, at least in my opinion. Leather needs a lot of maintenance and cracks & hardens over time. Leatherette doesn't. I had leatherette in my X5 (and now in my LR3). They held up fine and still looked new when I sold my X5 after 5 years of use. My LR3 is going into its 3rd year of family service and the leatherette is holding up really well and still looks like it was fresh from the showroom. Leatherette is actually my preference over real leather based on my experience.
Last edited by jr1966; 11-08-08 at 05:38 PM.
11-08-08, 08:20 PM
#27
Lexus Champion
Drove a GS 300 from '98 until '05 and a GS 430 from '05 to January '08. Never had any major mechanical issues with either car, but lots of annoying rattles on both models and an alignment issue on the 430. Both pretty comfortable cars to drive, but severely lacking in driving excitement.
Back in January, I was looking for a car to replace my GS 430. I really wanted a sports sedan, something that could be docile around the city and be a beast when pushed. Unfortunately Lexus did not have something that could fill that void. Really hoping that Lexus will release a GS-F in the future.
Reliability wise, I've had no issues with my E. And my wife drove a E350 for three years and had zero problems with her car. I had a great relationship with my service dealership (Keyes Lexus) for almost 10 years and always received awesome service. But my service experiences with MB have been fantastic as well.
The one thing I miss is the Lexus touchscreen nav. It's amazing how much more intuitive and better it is compared to the MB COMAND system. If I could have Lexus electronics in my E63 I'd have the perfect car
Back in January, I was looking for a car to replace my GS 430. I really wanted a sports sedan, something that could be docile around the city and be a beast when pushed. Unfortunately Lexus did not have something that could fill that void. Really hoping that Lexus will release a GS-F in the future.
Reliability wise, I've had no issues with my E. And my wife drove a E350 for three years and had zero problems with her car. I had a great relationship with my service dealership (Keyes Lexus) for almost 10 years and always received awesome service. But my service experiences with MB have been fantastic as well.
The one thing I miss is the Lexus touchscreen nav. It's amazing how much more intuitive and better it is compared to the MB COMAND system. If I could have Lexus electronics in my E63 I'd have the perfect car
11-08-08, 08:54 PM
#28
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Having had several MBs (still have one) and lots of BMWs, a couple of Lexus with some more in the immediate family members, I can say these:
driving fun/feel/sportiness = BMW>MB>Lexus
reliability = Lexus>BMW>MB
The MBs I like over the Lexus really depends on the models and generation. The W140 S-Class and the previous gen absolutely sucks. I would prefer the current gen S-Class over the current-gen LS though.
1st-gen MLs are lousy and I prefer the 1st-gen RX over it. But I don't like the current-gen RX, therefore, I would go with the current-gen ML. X5s would be my choice among the current- & previous-generations of this class.
MBs have lousy quality for the past couple decades, but the current generations of MBs have improved.
As far as BMWs are concerned, they are the real 4-door sports cars (using Nissan's terms) that a lot of times, the price premium is very worth it. And what you call "pleather" is actually leatherette. They are not real leather, doesn't feel like real leather, but better than leather, looks like leather, and more durable, at least in my opinion. Leather needs a lot of maintenance and cracks & hardens over time. Leatherette doesn't. I had leatherette in my X5 (and now in my LR3). They held up fine and still looked new when I sold my X5 after 5 years of use. My LR3 is going into its 3rd year of family service and the leatherette is holding up really well and still looks like it was fresh from the showroom. Leatherette is actually my preference over real leather based on my experience.
driving fun/feel/sportiness = BMW>MB>Lexus
reliability = Lexus>BMW>MB
The MBs I like over the Lexus really depends on the models and generation. The W140 S-Class and the previous gen absolutely sucks. I would prefer the current gen S-Class over the current-gen LS though.
1st-gen MLs are lousy and I prefer the 1st-gen RX over it. But I don't like the current-gen RX, therefore, I would go with the current-gen ML. X5s would be my choice among the current- & previous-generations of this class.
MBs have lousy quality for the past couple decades, but the current generations of MBs have improved.
As far as BMWs are concerned, they are the real 4-door sports cars (using Nissan's terms) that a lot of times, the price premium is very worth it. And what you call "pleather" is actually leatherette. They are not real leather, doesn't feel like real leather, but better than leather, looks like leather, and more durable, at least in my opinion. Leather needs a lot of maintenance and cracks & hardens over time. Leatherette doesn't. I had leatherette in my X5 (and now in my LR3). They held up fine and still looked new when I sold my X5 after 5 years of use. My LR3 is going into its 3rd year of family service and the leatherette is holding up really well and still looks like it was fresh from the showroom. Leatherette is actually my preference over real leather based on my experience.
i agree with you--->w221 is much better than the w220 BUT that does not make MB's quality lousy for the past decades. i do not know if you have driven all of the high end MB's for the past couple decades, but i can bet you MB quality was the best until w220, model year 2000-2006. and right now i am comparing the s class models since you compared the s class model w140.
if you drove used/second hand MB's and say MB's quality are lousy, then i have nothing to say except you got an abused second hand car.... if you drove new MB and say it had lousy quality, then i have nothing to say except i feel sorry for you that you got unlucky and got one of those tiny patch of bad quality ones....
not here to argue with you, just stating my opinion. so do not take it personally. i am just here to share my experience
Last edited by davidsong; 11-08-08 at 09:01 PM. Reason: adding more detail.
11-09-08, 07:01 PM
#29
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i totally disagree with you on this.... MB w140 was build like a tank---> interior quality was top notch and the best it has to offer in that time period. W140 had the best electronic/ safety/ luxury equipment that even lexus or bmw does not have back then.
i agree with you--->w221 is much better than the w220 BUT that does not make MB's quality lousy for the past decades. i do not know if you have driven all of the high end MB's for the past couple decades, but i can bet you MB quality was the best until w220, model year 2000-2006. and right now i am comparing the s class models since you compared the s class model w140.
if you drove used/second hand MB's and say MB's quality are lousy, then i have nothing to say except you got an abused second hand car.... if you drove new MB and say it had lousy quality, then i have nothing to say except i feel sorry for you that you got unlucky and got one of those tiny patch of bad quality ones....
not here to argue with you, just stating my opinion. so do not take it personally. i am just here to share my experience
i agree with you--->w221 is much better than the w220 BUT that does not make MB's quality lousy for the past decades. i do not know if you have driven all of the high end MB's for the past couple decades, but i can bet you MB quality was the best until w220, model year 2000-2006. and right now i am comparing the s class models since you compared the s class model w140.
if you drove used/second hand MB's and say MB's quality are lousy, then i have nothing to say except you got an abused second hand car.... if you drove new MB and say it had lousy quality, then i have nothing to say except i feel sorry for you that you got unlucky and got one of those tiny patch of bad quality ones....
not here to argue with you, just stating my opinion. so do not take it personally. i am just here to share my experience
I totally disagree with you that MB quality was the best until W220. My opinion is MB quality started deteriorating from the W140 generation. I consider the last real MBs to be the W124 & W126 and those coming from that era . Anything after felt different & sounded different from the old school overengineered MBs. No wonder Lexus caught up and easily gained ground over MB. And you mentioned the W140 was built like a tank. For me, it drove more like a tank.
BTW, we've had several new MBs from the '70s, '80s, and '90s, and I've been exposed to different MB models starting from the '60s and I felt and have seen the difference.
11-09-08, 09:36 PM
#30
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For me it's just a matter of trying something different. Having driven German cars pretty much all my life, I have decided to give Japanese cars a try. Another reason which I have posted before was that Japanese cars are cheaper in Taiwan compare to German cars.