Originally Posted by Sonartech

Not quite sure I'm reading you right. You wrote "Keep the much needed override capability" which implies you have it currently (v5.1). Are you suggesting that your system is hard drive based and will load v6.1 firmware without any prompting from you? My experience with the RX-350 and the ES-350 is that it won't automatically load a new LOADING.KWI file unless you specifically tell it to using the "Loading" function in the hidden system menu, or unless you disconnect the unit from the car for several minutes. I suppose disconnecting the negative terminal from the battery would have the same effect, but you'd have to reset a lot of crap after you did that. That's your call, however - I have no idea how the Camry IP comes apart (I'd have to look on TechInfo), but I suspect it's along the same lines as the ES-350 since I believe they're built on the same chassis. It's actually pretty easy if you're not creeped-out by that sort of thing and you have the right tools.

Assuming your system's not hard drive based and acts like my systems do, you shouldn't have to worry about the Nav system 'automatically' loading new v6.1 firmware unless you enter one of those two conditions. (My RX-350 didn't when I put my wife's new ES-350 v6.1 DVD in it.) That said, you should be able to take an original v6.1 DVD and use it in the car without too much fear that it will pull in new firmware "just because". If it did do something odd and loading the new firmware, I suspect you could make it reload a v5.1 firmware by disconnecting the unit and loading a v5.1 DVD when it complains on boot.

Since I wasn't originally sure how it worked, I decided to burn a custom DVD+R that has all new v6.1 map data but retains the v5.1 LOADING.KWI file - just in case it decides to reload the firmware for some reason.

In my ES and RX, so far so good using this custom "fusion" DVD+R. Both my Nav systems are working completely normally - no side effects at all, except of course the map data's newer.

If you're concerned about losing the override capability, make yourself a v6.1 Nav DVD, but use the LOADING.KWI file from a v5.1 DVD and replace the one on the v6.1 DVD as I described in an earlier post.

SonarTech

Originally Posted by spiff72

SonarTech:

I am still trying to combine my DVD's into the "hybrid" version for my Camry Hybrid (haaa haaa - get it?). I followed the instructions of replacing the loading.kwi file, but my car doesn't recognize it as a valid nav DVD. It does recognize a backup copy of my 6.1 DVD (it started the loading system menu screen, which I promptly stopped by turning off the car). This does imply that the firmware WILL upgrade if it finds a newer version. How it decides if it is newer is another question (speculation follows).

I am wondering if it won't recognize my hybrid 5.1/6.1 version because the DVD isn't named with the 5.1 or 6.1 DVD names (I used an arbitrary name).

The default names of the DVD's are:

5.1 DVD name: 464210-0629
6.1 DVD name: 464210-0791

I am thinking about trying to burn a new copy of the hybrid DVD with either the 5.1 DVD name, or the 6.1 (I am leaning toward the 6.1). Another thought I had might be that this name is the item that the system looks at to determine whether the firmware should be loaded. Perhaps if the last 4 digits are a higher value on the DVD, the firmware update will be forced. If so, the 6.1 folks who want the override could burn a DVD with a higher number than 0791 at the end, and the upgrade (actually a downgrade) would take place.

Also, I am using a Mac (and Toast 7 Titanium) do do the burning. I used the DVD-ROM format to do the burn, but I saw the ISO-9660 option later. I don't see any options for DVD-incremental, Closed, though... This might be part of my issue too.

I am going to burn some coasters during this process, but I think the end result will be worth it if I can get it to work!

Originally Posted by chiefvh

sonar, a friend tells me that on the latest rx350's, unplugging 1 speed sensor opens up the nav functions and bluetooth while in motion. pin 20. he did it on his. that seems to go against your experience. i've yet to pull mine because i'm working on a touch screen bypass. that make sense to you?

Originally Posted by Sonartech

Not having this car, I can't tell you how it hooks up to a GS350 with any certainty. I can tell you what's on the pins that most likely correspond to the other modification:

K46 on your Multi-Display (Signal, Connector & PIN #, Wire Color):

• GROUND = K46 PIN 10 = W-B
• PKB = K46 PIN 23 = Y - W-B
• SPD = K46 PIN 14 = V - W-B
• (Provided FYI only): REV = K46 PIN 13 = R - W-B

K47 on your Multi-Display (Signal = Connector & PIN # = Wire Color):

• Nothing interesting here. This connector contains signals from the voice guidance, the backup camera, DVD image signal and Microphone stuff.

H1 on your Nav ECU & Multi-Display (Signal = Connector & PIN # = Wire Color):

• GND = H1 PIN 6 = G
• SPD = H1 PIN 16 = W-B
• (Provided FYI only): REV = H1 PIN 15 = GR-B
• Note: There is no PKB signal present on connector H1

Based on this, I think the DVD mod needs to be performed on connector K46, not H1, since H1 carries no parking brake signal. I suspect the procedure is the same, however: Cut PKB on K46 and leave some slack on it. Splice the end going to the connector to GND and cap the end going into the wiring harness. For VSS (if you need this mod as well), simply remove the pin from the connector and insulate it from shorting out (heat shrink works well).

That's what I'd try - but you're on your own for this one.... unless, of course, you want to give me your GS350 so that I can have yet another Lexus in my driveway... "Lexii?"

SonarTech

Originally Posted by Sonartech

This sounds like a burning format problem. My DVD was labeled "6.1Data_5.1Firm" when I loaded it into my wife's ES-350, and it gobbled it right up. I don't think it actually looks at a version number... I suspect that your DVD wasn't burned properly (for the Nav system). If it didn't even recognize it as a valid NavDVD and show you map data from the disk (which doesn't require reading LOADING.KWI at all), then something else was causing the failure. I'm pretty sure it needs to be ISO-9660 (but DVD-ROM (UDF) might also work), and it definitely needs to be a closed session. Unfortunately, I don't know squat about Mac's or about Toast 7. Looking at the screen shots for this program, I'm reminded once again why I use a PC instead of a Mac. The only other possibly important note is that I used a DVD+R. Did you? Could you use the DVD you made with the v6.1 firmware (that is, would it load Map Data from your DVD, or did it just puke on you and tell you it couldn't be read?)

SonarTech

Originally Posted by 2thfixr

Sonartech, it appears that you are definitely the man when it comes to this mod! I am going to try this mod if I have some time this weekend but just want to confirm. The above info is for a 2007 GS350 with ML 5th gen nav and the reported newer style connectors? I realize that you are basing this on available wiring information for the car and not personal experience but I just want to make sure that this information is accurate based on what you have seen on wiring diagrams for this model and year GS.

Also, wouldn't it be better to add a switch to the VSS signal rather than simply cut it so the nav scrolling issue can be restored to smooth scrolling "normal" mode with the flip of a switch?

Originally Posted by spiff72

I am starting to think that the Camry's nav system might just be more adept at rejecting a non-OEM DVD. I have made about 4-5 coasters now, as none of these hybrid discs have worked yet. I even downloaded a trial version of the "ONES" software that you used in your screenshots, and that one didn't work either. I am starting to think that these might just be futile attempts.

The 6.1 backup DVD that I burned was immediately recognized, and STARTED to load the "system" (firmware, I assume), but I didn't allow it to finish displaying the entire progress bar since I didn't know how easy it would be to go back and keep my override. I powered down the car, and put my 5.1 disc back in (which then loaded its own firmware).

If I listen carefully to the DVD (hybrid) as it tries to spin up, it sounds like it will spin, then stop, spin then stop, etc. several times and finally gives a message like "Unable to read data. Check to see if the DVD is correct".

I might just cave in and let the 6.1 backup run its course and see if it reads completely (just to verify that my burner isn't at fault). I am pretty sure I was using Fuji DVD+R DL disks. But I would have to go and look to make sure.

Originally Posted by Sonartech

According to the info at Techinfo.toyota.com, the information I provided here (in the specific post you quoted) was for a GS350. There is no distinction given regarding the generation of Nav system in the wiring document I referenced, which leads me to believe all GS350's have the same navigation ECU. HOWEVER, it is entirely up to you to independently verify this information yourself. As I stated earlier, I don't have a GS350, so I can't confirm any of the information provided by Techinfo. There is only one GS350 listed on Techinfo and that's where I got the information from.

Regarding the VSS switch: I have never once recommended that anyone cut VSS to the Nav system. In fact, I specifically recommend not doing so for the aforementioned reason(s). I still recommend trying to load the system with v5.1 firmware and using v6.1 Navdata as I've already described in detail. In the absense of a v5.1 LOADING.KWI file and your absolute need to be able to use the normally locked-out Nav features while driving, this is the only apparent alternative. If I had to do this mod, I would definitely install a switch to restore VSS to the Nav ECU once I was done using the required menus.

I've also stated in the past that I would recommend that anyone considering this mod (removing VSS from the Nav ECU) remove the pin first (as opposed to cutting the wire) so they can see what the effect(s) will be. Then, if they decide they hate the side effects, it's as simple as pushing the pin back into the connector. Or, if they decide it's tolerable, they can reinstall the pin, make the permanent cuts to the wire and insert a switch into the circuit.

Cheers,

SonarTech

Originally Posted by 2thfixr

First of all, let me thank you for all of your effort and help in trying to help us GS350 guys! I totally understand that I need to verify all the info myself. I just took my car apart and all of the info that you gave seems to correlate with what I am seeing. The wire colors and pin locations are spot on. I did not make any cuts because I just wanted to do a little research for now and will be looking at some alternatives to cutting wires this weekend. It looks to me like they are little Molex type pins so I should be able to go to an electronics shop and pick up some pins and wire to do the mod without any cutting at all.

I have a couple of questions though.

1. Grounding the yellow parking brake wire is consistent with the earlier thread for pre-07 GS nav systems but I am a little confused about the VSS wires. In the earlier thread for the pre-07 sytems, the VSS wires from the DVD player and the nav ECU are jumpered together. In your thread, you recommend pulling out the VSS wire from the DVD player and capping it. Is this because you don't recommend cutting the ECU VSS wire? So in other words, I can accomplish the same jumpering effect if I simply unplug the VSS wire from the DVD player and then install an inline switch to the nav ECU VSS wire?

2. My understanding is that if you remove the VSS wire from the nav ECU, the screen will not scroll smoothly and GPS accuracy is affected but you will gain access to locked out nav features while driving. If this is the case, you are absolutely right, a switch would be a must!

3. Where can I get the KWI files? I only have the 5th gen nav systems in the GS and the ES. I don't have access to the pre-07 software.

Thanks in advance for dealing with my questions!

Originally Posted by 2thfixr

"NO SPANK YOU" ROTFLMAO! Thanks for all of your help. I just need to locate some similar connectors or maybe even purchase some type of connector from Toyota/Lexus that has similar wire ends. That would do the trick!!!

Originally Posted by Sonartech

The whole "spin, stop - spin, stop" you mentioned sounds suspiciously like the reader can't read your DVD. I wonder if your unit's just sensitive to the type of DVD+R you're using? It IS very odd that it seems to work with your backup DVD but not your home-made DVD. Since I can't exactly verify what you've done, I can't really troubleshoot your problem. I don't know what to tell you. I guess I would recommend you try a different brand of DVD+R, specifically one with a different color of dye than you're currently using and try the process again. There really was no magic to the DVD+R I used to re-flash my ES-350. It just worked. I did it twice, and my DVD+R worked fine both times. I continue to use that same DVD+R in the ES-350, and I use one created the same way (but with a different volume name) for my RX-350.

SonarTech

Originally Posted by spiff72

Thanks for all of your comments/feedback, Sonartech...

I am going to try to pick up some different blanks now. I tried doing a backup of my 5.1 DVD and it doesn't fr!cKing work! I must have gotten lucky with that first 6.1 backup, since it was the same brand of DVD as all the others that have failed.

If you could tell me what brand of DVD you used for your hyrbid DVD burning, I would greatly appreciate it!

Thanks,
Jeff

Originally Posted by 2thfixr

I was checking today and the H1 harness does not have a wire 16. W-B means white with black stripe correct? I did see that wire on another pin.