drkaid

hello all,


great site. does the navigation over ride also works for entering phone numbers on the go?

Sonartech

I have a '07 RX-350. The wife has a spiffy new '07 ES-350. The RX shipped with a version 5.1 Map DVD. The ES shipped with a version 6.1 Map DVD, even though it was only 2 months newer. In addition to newer road and POI data, there are some significant firmware changes as well.

There's a file on each DVD called "Loading.KWI" which is essentially the entire firmware for the Navigation system. The v5.1 Loading.KWI for my RX-350 is 45.8 megs. The v6.1 Loading.KWI for the ES-350 is 70.0MB. Quite a big difference in size for two cars with nearly identical 5th Gen Nav Systems. 25 megs fatter? For what, I wonder? Climate control commands for the ES-350 that don't work in my RX-350 even though the damn owner's manual says they do? Hmmmm....

Here's the point, though: The Nav Override (aka "Over Ride") that you get to via the Volume menu doesn't work on the v6.1 system. It works on all v5.1 system's (USA) that I've seen, however. So Denso dicked with the activation sequence (or deleted it entirely) for the newer firmware. Since I have both DVD's right here in front of me, I dumped both ANSI and UNICODE strings out of the v5.1 file and the v6.1 Loading.KWI file. The text that can be found in the v5.1 Nav Override menu still exists in the v6.1 firmware file, we just need to figure out how to get to it. Sure, it's possible they removed the hook to that particular menu system and just left the code there, but it's also possible they re-mapped the entry for it. Unfortunately, I haven't figured it out yet.

The other concern I had was regarding the map data vs. the firmware update (loading.kwi file). I wanted the new road data and POI updates from the v6.1 Map DVD, but I didn't want to take a chance of flashing my "Overridable" v5.1 firmware with my wife's v6.1 firmware which doesn't allow the override. The solution is to create a DVD-R that has all new v6.1 files EXCEPT the loading.KWI file which you replace with your older, v5.1 loading.kwi file. I made this DVD tonight and it's working great in the RX-350. It displays v6.1 map and POI data, but I still have my nav override capability.

So my remaining questions are these:

• Do these Denso-based Nav systems automatically update their own firmware when they see a higher incremental update, or does the service department have to instantiate this process manually? What file(s) get looked at for version information? Version.txt, or the actual loading.KWI file itself?
• If the process is automatic, wouldn't it be possible to change the version.txt file to "v6.11" for example and actually put a v5.1 loading.kwi file on the DVD? Would the Nav system replace the un-overridable code with the older code the does support Nav override?
• Is there a diagnostic menu item somewhere that forces a firmware reload from the Map DVD regardless of the version?

Obviously, I'm not real interested in finding out that it's a "one-way road" for updating the Nav firmware at the expense of losing my RX-350 override. It's much "safer" to try and make the ES-350 eat the old v5.1 firmware.

Going forward, it would be most helpful if everyone indicated what version of software they're using so we can eliminate confusion like "why this works on this ES-350 but not that one" and the like. People are scratching their heads unnecessarily trying to figure out what they're doing wrong when the software's actually the problem, not the person or the procedure.

Regarding the Phone-book entries. For the RX-350, the Nav Override doesn't affect those options. They are controlled via a separate speed sense line to the multi-display. Instead of cutting the wire out of the jack as suggested in many places, I opted to just remove the pin from the socket so I could replace it later. I just put the removed pin in a bit of heat-shrink tubing and that was that. What you gain is the ability to play with the calendar and dial numbers from the display in motion. What you'll lose is the direct switch to the speed dial display when you press the steering wheel off-hook button. You'll have the press "Speed Dial" to get to that display option now. A small price to pay, I suppose, for the ability to use all the features in motion.

I would also like to state and confirm for the record that Lexus service personnel DO know about the Volume screen Nav Override hack - but they've been told very strongly "not to share that information with the customer." I also know that the same person I spoke with was sincere when he told me he wasn't aware that it had been removed / editied from the v6.1 NavDVD firmware.... so either they haven't been trained on it yet, or it's really, really been removed... which would seriously SUCK! Also, there's no TSB or anything on TechInfo regarding the Nav Override. How'd these guys get told about it? My guess is there's another vector for information release outside of what we, the disgustingly rich public which has to put up with the B.S. lock-outs, can access. Anyone have any ideas? Has anyone actually ever seen an official Lexus guide that mentions this bloody override?

<yawn>

That's my brain dump for now. My quest continues to find out where Denso moved the infamous Override...

ps: If you're a Denso developer reading this message and you're involved in the process of creating these Nav updates, EAT MY SHORTS, Pinhead! I don't tell you how to write code, so don't tell ME how to use my equipment! Remember who's paying the money to keep your stupid %!^@% employed! Now get off your dead stump and fix my RX-350 climate control voice commands!

Yours in sickness and in health,

SonarTech

hendjaz

Sonartech, your experience is consistent with ours. We have several month old 07 450h with 5.1 dvd version (override works) and newly acquired 07 400h with 6.1 version (override does not work).

Is the process of transfering to a dvd-r the 6.1 content (except for kwi file) and the 5.1 kwi file pretty straightforward or do you need specialized software and your level of knowledge to accomplish this?

Many thanks for discovering the difference and sharing the details.

Sonartech

I'm glad to help. The process is very easy. Obviously, you'll need a double-layer DVD+R (I use Memorex), and the mastering program of your choice. I use Prassi "Ones". Here's the process:

1. Get your original v5.1 and v6.1 NavDVD's out and make sure they are clean. If not, wash them with warm soap and water and use a soft towel to DAB the extra water away.
2. Make a folder on your computer called "v5.1" and copy the contents of the v5.1 DVD to that folder.
3. Make a folder on your computer called "v6.1" and copy the contents of the v6.1 DVD to that folder.
4. Start your mastering program and create a new DATA DVD.
5. Drag all the files and folders from the v6.1 directory you created EXCEPT the LOADING.KWI file to the project.
6. Drag the LOADING.KWI file from the v5.1 folder to the project.
7. Burn the DVD+R as a "DVD Incremental - Closed", "ISO 9660 + UDF".

Here's a picture of the process in ONES that I used:



Anyway, that's how I did it.

SonarTech

Sonartech

Important update:

After installing XM Radio into the new ES-350, I've come across some incredibly interesting findings that may interest others engaged in this endeavor.

I had the entire center console out of my wife's car for more than an hour installing equipment and running antenna cable through the firewall (which seriously sucked, I might add!!!). After I reinstalled the Nav ECU et al and did a quick test, a screen appeared that I'd never seen before, not even in the RX-350. Written in Engrish, it stated something to the effect of "The system was unable to load the program, Please consult to the dealer" with some additional Japanese text below that. As part of the original removal process, I removed the v6.1 Nav DVD from the unit. When I got this error message, I put the original v6.1 Nav DVD back in the unit to see if it would load/recover. Instead, I stumbled upon a firmware update display complete with the text "The system is loading, DO NOT POWER OFF THE VEHICLE". It even came with a free progress bar! The flash process took about 30 seconds and then the system automatically restarted. Voila! The Nav program was loaded and worked normally. After feeling the hair raise up on the back of my neck for what I'd just seen, I ran over to the RX-350 and took out that custom DVD I made for the other car - the one that had new v6.1 data but retained the older v5.1 LOADING.KWI file. I ejected the original v6.1 Map DVD, turned the car off and then disconnected all of the cables on the back of the ES-350 Nav ECU as before. After waiting about 5 minutes (perhaps to let it "clear" itself again), I plugged everything back in and restarted the car. Behold! The same greeting that the system was unable to load the program! I put my modified Map DVD in the slot and watched in amazement as the system loaded v5.1 firmware and reset itself.

Afterwards, I had complete "Over Ride" capability with the new map DVD data and no apparent side effects. Climate control voice commands still work; everything seems to be fully operational. This also led me to dig a little further into the magic Service menu where the Over Ride command lives in the v5.1 firmware. In that same menu system, there's an option called "Loading". When you select it, you have an "H" in the upper-left, a "V" in the lower-left, and an "OK" in the lower-right. If you press "OK", another menu appears asking you if you want to Load the System. If you select YES, the system flashes whatever LOADING.KWI file is present on the Map DVD, regardless of what version it is! That means that at a future date, if we do determine that some functionality was lost in the ES-350 by loading the older firmware, we can easily load the new firmware without dismantling the center console again by just using the Service menu system.

The other very important thing to note is that the "Loading" menu item only appears to exist in the same menu with the "Over Ride" command. Since that's apparently the only way Lexus Service has to manually initiate a firmware load, that option HAS to be accessible somewhere in the v6.1 firmware. Again, we just need to find out where. I've already determined that the "Over Ride" and the "Loading" menu options exist in the v6.1 firmware...

For now, I'm going to run the ES-350 with the v5.1 firmware and see if I can find any ill effects from doing so. I'm still paranoid about the 25 meg file size difference between the new v6.1 firmware and the older v5.1 firmware. For now, however, it seems to be doing just fine - and the override works just like it used to.



Cheers,

SonarTech

dreyfus

Keep up the sleuthing, sonartech! I hope you come up with a universal firmware hack that removes all the center console speed lockouts without losing the "smooth" map updates.

A firmware solution would be much simpler to implement than my manual nav hack switch, which relies on brute physical force to disable those lockouts.

Keep us posted.

chiefvh

hi. thanks for all the great info. i got my rx350 2 weeks ago. soft screen hack doesn't work. i called in my auto tech guy to do a hard wire hack, who's done dozens of lexus' and he was unfamiliar with the wiring and was hesitant to cut anything. which is the speed sensor that you unplugged? color, position?
is that all that is necessary?

Sonartech

That depends on what exactly you're trying to do. The procedure I just described seems to be getting around the missing "Over Ride" option quite nicely without cutting any wires or any other side-effects. Obviously, you do have to "force" it to take the old firmware which is fairly easy - IF you have a copy of the old v5.1 firmware like my RX-350 came with. If, however, you want to be able to use the phone book, Music folder browse and Calendar functions while moving, you'll have to follow the instructions in the following post:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=226825

Note that you'll only need to alter pin 1 and pin 8 as described in that post IF you have Mark Levinson Audio AND you want to watch DVD's while moving. If you don't have the ML audio system or you don't care about watching DVD's-in-motion, then just remove the VSS - Vehicle Speed Sense (Connector M5, Pin 20 / Red Wire). Instead of cutting it as the instructions say, I recommend just removing the entire pin from the connector and sealing it inside heat-shrink to insulate it. That gives you an easy, solder-free way to re-attach the wire to the connector if needed - and not even the factory could tell you were there. If you actually cut the wire, they're damn-sure going to know someone's been fooling around back there... In these kinds of endeavors, my advice is to always have a clean way out and cover your tracks while visiting. No need to take unnecessary risks with your warranty.

I can also confirm that removing VSS pin 20 in this way does not have any (apparent) additional side effects beyond losing the ability to immediately access the speed dial screen while moving by pressing the off-hook button on the steering wheel. Pressing that button after you do this mod will take you instead to the number entry screen, and you'll have to press speed dial to access the speed dial keys. That's the only apparent down-side to doing this modification as described. Like I said, you'll gain the ability to access the Calendar, direct-dial phone numbers from the display, browse music folders and use the other functions on the Menu page while moving. I've had that mod in place for 3 months now and it's just lovely.

Cheers,

SonarTech

mekrew

sonar,

so if i have a gen5 w/o mark l (07 gs350), what advantages do I gain if I just remove the vss pin 20 ?

and removing that pin wont make my nav all jerky or have issues ?

if i dont have mark l but a gen 5 , can i still do the dvd mod or does mine not read / play dvds ?

thanks

chiefvh

great. thanks again. your posts are clear and concise. i love it. i like this clean method over the cutting involved in that thread you pasted. does removing the VSS pin 20/red wire allow full access to the nav system while in motion? do i have to do anything with the parking break wire?

chiefvh

i got my answer on the nav by reading this post of yours below. is the seat belt override descrided somewhere for the newest rx's? i can't find it so far. still looking....

I don't have ML audio, so I didn't need to do the parking brake hacks - only the VSS hack (remove VSS pin 20). I've executed and successfully completed the following hacks on my RX-350:

* Added a switch to the DRL's allowing me to turn them off
* Removed VSS Pin 20 from the M5 connector to enable use of the other non-Nav menu functions while moving
* Used the odometer "b-on" / "b-off" seat belt buzzer disable feature to turn them off
* I use the Nav "Over Ride" option in the v5.1 firmware to allow me to use the Nav system while moving.
* Added XM-Radio using the VaisTech add-on unit


I think that's it. After all this, my RX-350 is "wide open" and gives me no grief whatsoever. Hopefully you'll have more success going forward as you explore the forum, because I could sure use a little help trying to find out where Denso moved the Service menu to in the v6.1 Firmware. Until we figure that out, you could just force your Nav unit to load the v5.1 firmware which does have the Over Ride in the usual place as I described in a previous post.

SonarTech

Sonartech

There are about 10 variations on this same thing. This same method actually turned off the "reverse beeper" on an older Prius, not the seat belt "minder" beeper. The procedure is also described on the Toyota TechInfo site, and this particular option is also an LPS option for the ES-350. It's hardly an "easter egg" or a safety issue of any sort; it's a publicly disclosed user option regardless of what some overly safety-conscious ****** in this forum would like you to believe (who also undoubtedly think that it's both the governments job to keep me safe as well as Toyota's job... Where's my mommy when I need her?!? Oh, that's right! She's RIGHT HERE IN THIS FORUM!)

I digress... Here's some of the links for reference:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php...77&postcount=2

http://au.lexusownersclub.com/forums...ndpost&p=10057

Like I said, it's also described on TechInfo.Toyota.com in publication IN-38 (Click to link if you have an account), under point 9 as follows:

9. METER/GAUGE SYSTEM (Seat Belt Buzzer ON/OFF Setting (Procedure "A"))

The seat belt buzzer ON/OFF setting, which is a setting of the buzzer function of the combination meter, can disable the driver and front passenger side seat belt buzzers.

NOTICE (I included this chunk for the safety-police that patrol the forum):
• This buzzer should be on for "safe driving". Perform these procedures only if it is necessary to set the buzzer off (disabled).
• Did I just read that right? If the buzzer's turned off you can't drive safely anymore??! Damn!!! What ever will we do?!
• When either the battery cable or the combination meter connector is disconnected, these buzzers are set on (enabled).
• Odometer returns to 0 after starting this procedure, although it is not displayed.

HINT:
"b-oFF" indicates that the buzzer is OFF. "b-on" indicates that the buzzer is ON. The seat belt buzzer ON/OFF setting will be finished (the odometer will display "ODO") if the ODO/TRIP switch is not operated for 10 seconds or more. In this case, perform step 11 to check that the buzzer ON/OFF setting is complete. If it is not complete, start from step 1 again.

(a) Driver and front passenger side seat belt buzzers(b) Front passenger side seat belt buzzerSonarTech

Sonartech

Not having a GS350 myself, I can't be 100% sure, but I don't think will negatively impact your Nav system. On my RX-350, the Nav system gets its VSS signal from a completely different wire in a completely different harness. I expect yours is the same, but you can verify that for yourself by looking at the wiring diagrams for the Nav system on Techinfo.Toyota.Com. See if they match the RX-350's. If they do, you're probably good to go.

If you don't have Mark L, you can't play DVD's on the Nav system anyway, so there's no need to mod the Parking Brake input. Removing VSS does NOT impact the Nav system - it only affects other menu items that are locked-out while driving, including Telephone dialing, Calendar, Maintenance, Music folder browsing, etc... I've already dumped my brain on this matter above - see post #128. If it's not there, I dunno.

SonarTech

chiefvh

thanks again sonar, your clarity is awesome. i still manage to think of a question though. is there a speed sensor wire i can pull to operate the nav while in motion? i swear i can't find that info for the newest rx's. please, if you don't mind.

thanks, chief.

Sonartech

There's no wiring difference (according to TechInfo) between the brand-newest new RX-350's and mine that's 3 months old. The only difference is the firmware loaded in the unit. If you can get the v5.1 LOADING.KWI file from somewhere, I recommend you follow the procedure I wrote to force the unit to flash itself with older firmware, thus restoring the software override option.

If you remove VSS from the Nav system, your system won't be able to provide an absolutely critical input to dead-reckoning, and your map display will no longer scroll smoothly as you move (aka "jerky display"). Trip speed guesstimation will be used to calculate route times, all based on GPS and not actual vehicle speed. In short, the loss of quality of data that you'll gain as a result of cutting VSS to the NAV system is significant; in my opinion, it's not worth it. If you do decide to cut VSS to the Nav system, I highly recommend you add a switch to allow easy re-enabling of the VSS signal after you're done using the Nav menu. Also, note that just because you cut VSS to the Nav system, doesn't mean that it won't be able to occasionally detect that the car is moving, and you will occasionally see Nav menu items get temporarily locked-out, even with VSS removed (because the Nav system computes apparent speed over ground based on the GPS information).

Again, I very much DO NOT recommend using this as a workaround. If you're determined to anyway, at least remove the PIN instead of cutting the wire so that you can see how the system will (mis-)behave before you move to make this a permanent mod.

Nav ECU: Connector N3, Pin 4. Wire color [BR - W-B], Signal = Speed Signal.

Yikes.

SonarTech