Originally Posted by jjl12

I know i started this thread by saying i would pick the m45 over the gs430...i've changed my mind. a quote in the May Automobile magazine about the M captured this lingering doubt i had about the car, something about the car being taken out of the development oven before it was done. i now think that the styling of the M would not endure and age as well as the GS. assuming i had an SUV in the garage to make the small trunk of the GS a non-issue, i would get the GS over the M...

who says only women can change their minds...

Originally Posted by highmiles

Congrats jjl12 AND jwaters.

It seems that we have all read too much about the sporty ride and those incredible 35 extra horses making the M a hands down better car than the GS. It kind of reminds me of not being able to see the forest for the trees.... Some people are so fixated on statistics to see beyond the numbers.

There is so much more to the GS that makes it a car that is fun (IMO) to drive everyday. Whether you want a relaxing drive on the freeway (thanks to the Radar Cruise and ML Stereo), a white knuckle afternoon on a twisty road (thanks to VDIM) or the occasional spirited pass (thanks to plenty of HP and Torque IMO) the GS is a true multi dimensional Luxury Sedan.

My new GS is different than any other new car I have ever owned. I can't wait for an opportunity for a road trip in my GS and even have trouble sleeping the night before a trip. Each trip for me is an adventure where I can learn something new about my GS and discover nuiances to the character of this car that makes it so fun.

Today I picked up my car from the dealer after my FIRST 5K SERVICE. I hope to have it back in for my 10K service much sooner than later.

Originally Posted by doug_999

OMG jjl12! You have not even driven the two cars and you are picking between them? Do yourself a favor and go drive the darn cars. And drive the 545 and E500 as well - then let us know what you think. It blows me away that someone can even try to pick between these two cars without driving them. Worse that someone would base their decision on what Automobile said about a car!

Originally Posted by Sandman

I understand your point about torque vs. HP. As you probably know, the reason that a lot of V8's tend to have higher torque figures than HP is because they have "breathing" problems - not being able to get enough intake air to sustain the torque at higher RPM. HP is a function of torque and RPMs so the longer the engine can sustain the torque the higher the HP. WIth the new technology that you mentioned I would expect that the new 4.6L V8 would be able to sustain torque at higher RPMs and get better HP/L figures. The 4.3L achieves 70HP/L - so I'd hope that getting to 75-80 would be achieveable in the 4.6L (if not higher). Of course, Lexus may choose to tune the engine down for reliability, economy or smoothness of operation. Either way, I think we are in agreement that the new 4.6 should be a nice step up in performance.

I was not aware that the Infiniti 4.5L V8 isn't ULEV! And that they don't have experience with Direct Injection. So they have to use displacement to achieve their target market niche "Designed to Outperform". BMW has had some reliability/longevity issues with the M3 and M5 motors because they push the envelope so hard with what the engine can do. I'm glad the Lexus seems to hold back a little because that last few % creates a big trade-off between performance and longevity.

What you say about the 450h and 460 makes complete sense to me. I understand that the 450h designator is meant to convey that the car performs as if the engine were a 4.5L V8. If the hybrid were to be the ultimate performer then Lexus would have named it with a higher number designator. I'm still curious about how Lexus will market these 2 models and what the real differentiation will be. I suspect that the real marketing benefit to Lexus goes far beyond just offering model choice. It goes to brand awareness, technology leadership, environmental image, etc, etc.