LiquidBlue

Keep in mind that Infiniti has been using the VK V8 since 2001... it has had some minor tweaking since then, but i would not be surprised if they came out with a brand new 5.0 liter or equivilent by the 2006/2007 model year, which would indeed make it faster than the 450H..

LiquidBlue

You should also know that Infiniti is spelled with an "i", and not a "y".. but perhaps you didn't know

TRDFantasy

*If* .... it can lead to anything really. We KNOW for sure that the GS450h is coming, as well as the GS460. For one thing, both the GS450h and the GS460 will have improved fuel economy over current models, as well as improved performance. The GS430 already beats the M45 in fuel economy.

Let's say hypothetically, that Infiniti does come out with a 5.0 V8 ... chances are it will have lower fuel economy, or at least the same. I doubt it would have higher economy. Now let's assume that this so called M50 will be faster than a GS450h. Keeping in mind it will have significantly lower fuel economy than the hybrid, we also have don't forget the GS460, which should possess even better performance than the 450h. WIth Direct Injection, and Dual VVT-i, even a 5.0 VK would at best match the 4.6L Lexus power.

Right now, having 35 more HP, and 15 more ft-lbs of Torque, the M45 beats the GS430 in straight line speed by only a whisker. Slalom times are tied, and in the real world, the M45 will have trouble in the rain, or snow. With this in mind, a 4.6L Direct Injected, Dual VVT-i engine will probably overpower a 5.0 VK, unless the VK goes through some substantial changes.

I'm just wondering .... why do you try so hard to make biased statements, and provoke arguments? Why be on this forum at all if you hate Lexus so much?

TRDFantasy

Just another thing to note ... Toyota has used the UZ V8 engine since the very first LS. This engine has gone through some minor tweaks, a displacement boost, and more minor tweaks.

This engine family is almost 15 years old, similar to the MZ V6 family.

Don't be surprised if the 4.6L V8 is a new engine family like the GR V6s are.

LiquidBlue

How do u figure that a 5.0 M could only "at best " match a 4.6 GS, when a 4.5 M already beats a 4.3 GS?
Also, the 4.5 M has 335 horsepower, while the 4.3 GS only has 300 horsepower.. remember back in 2000?? when the 4.0 GS went up to 4.3?? The horsepower increase went from 300hp to uhhh, 300hp.. i doubt a 4.6liter using the same engine will have any more than 325 horsepower unless, like u say, they build a completely new engine... Having said that, the only reason why the M is only .2 seconds faster than the GS has to do with the weight difference between the two sedans.. the GS only weighs 3,748 lbs, while the M weighs 3,948 lbs, a difference of 200lbs...

and who says i hate Lexus? I'm a Lexus owner... but i'm not blinded by the truth.. and the truth is, that the new M is a better luxury sports sedan than the new GS..

Gojirra99

I hope there will be an Infiniti M50 too, the real BMW will be upgraded to the 550 shortly, & with a real stick available

A 5.0 litre engine is no longer a big deal in this segment, the E class have had it for 2 1/2 years & from what I' ve heard will soon be upgraded to 5.5 litre.

As for Lexus, they seem to be more interested in using hybrids to boost power & fuel economy more than just increaing engine displacement. I think there will eventually be a V8 + hybrid, & I think likely coming with the new LS first . . .

Sup

finally an M owner who I can respect.

Many of the members on FreshAlloy are too immature and biased to take seriously.

Gojirra99

Yes, welcome to the forum ,& I actually like the M45 in many ways, & as I' ve said before, if I were in the market for these sedans right now, it's going to be a really tough choice between the M & the GS.

What bothers me are the trolls, many of which aren't even in the position to buy these sedans, & they just come here to stir things up as if what they say here will have any significant impact in the real world

flipside909

I highly agree with you on this.

TRDFantasy

As I said, the move from the 4.0 to 4.3 was just a displacement boost, and VVT-i added. It became a ULEV engine, but power didn't increase a whole lot (Torque increased a bit). The 4.6 V8 is going to be more than just a displacement boost, and more than just Dual VVT-i added. It will have Direct Injection, which boosts power and fuel economy considerably, as well as other changes no doubt. Again, I speculate it could be an all new V8 engine family, as the UZ is getting really dated. Either way, all reports say the engine will have at least 350HP, and more Torque. If it was a simple displacement bump, Toyota could have done it quickly and easily like they did bumping the MZ engines from 3 to 3.3. With that in mind, they could've put the bumped up engine into the 2005 LS and the 2006 GS, but they didn't. This hints at the idea that this engine will be a big boost and a significant change; possibly a new engine family which I think it very well may be.

The M45 beats the GS430 by a whisker in straight line speed, as I said. Even though you may feel it clearly beats the GS, it doesn't. The M45 may have firmer handling, or a firmer "sporty" ride, but that's all preference and perception, as the slalom times for both cars were pretty much equal. It makes perfect sense that the M45 is heavier, but only a tiny bit faster. I also heard somewhere the M's gearing is more aggressive, and not as smooth as the GS. Another thing to consider, the GS did not get a big performance improvement when moving to the 6 speed because it has a huge amount of electronics. This ultimately puts stress on the engine, and I think the gen 3 GS puts less power to the wheels than the Gen 2 because of that. In return,the Gen 3 performs slighly better than the Gen 2 overall thanks to the 6 speed.

I also won't beat a dead horse by arguing how much attention to detail the GS has compared to the M, and how the GS has VDIM, a huge advantage over the M in real world driving conditions.

In short, the M and GS are both good cars, they are both close enough to call it a draw. But seeing as we here are Lexus lovers and enthusiasts, most of us still prefer the GS. IF you want to be fair, the differences between the 2 mainly come down to preference, and personal opinion.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

LiquidBlue:

Check your private messages please.

highmiles

Well said AmethySC. TMDS appears to be an exception to others who think that the GS vs M rivalry is some kind of College Poll as to who's number one. All of the cars in the Luxury Sedan class are exceptional automobiles. The differences are subtle and not nearly as clear and some (in the media or trolls on CL) make it out ot be.

We all have our reasons for which car suits us best. For me longevitiy is a key. I know that when I buy a Lexus I can try to drive the wheels off. However if I take good care of my car I will be rewarded with seveal years and a lot of miles of driving a car that drives after a couple of hundred thousand miles like it did the day I bought it.

LexFather

I was hoping you found this Congrats on your car, the tint really looks good. Welcome to Clublexus as well.

LexFather

Read the rules, VVTi is a moderator. And his contributions to Clublexus cannot be typed, it would take up too much webspace.

LexFather

Your all quite welcome. Heck thank the owners.