GS400, noisy and clunky drivetrain.
09-03-14, 06:35 PM
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GS400, noisy and clunky drivetrain.
Hello everyone, this is the same GS400 from this thread:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-...?highlight=sos
Bought the car with a blown engine and installed a JDM 1UZ-FE / tranny from a Celsior (LS400).
The engine is running strong, I have put about 200 miles on it so far. Still have a few minor bugs to fix such as: 1- Speedo, tach, fuel and temp all dead (odometer and trip are working fine), 2- A/C compressor is dead (being replaced tomorrow with the Celsior compressor that came with the JDM 1UZ). 3-Oil Level light is missbehaving... (on, off, back on)
But my main concern is in the transmission / driveshaft area. This is the JDM Celsior transmission. Both engine mounts and the transmission mount are brand new genuine parts. ATF is also genuine Toyota Type IV (oil level is correct...)
Symptoms:
1- The transmission is not silent. When put in gear with the car stopped, you hear a faint whining (pump, converter noise I suppose), then when the car starts moving, there is a slight roughness sound (like a worn bearing). First gear also whines slightly when taking off.
2- There is play in the drivetrain. Sometimes you hear a "clunk" when put in Drive or going from Drive to Reverse. Sometimes this clunk is multiple and goes "crok, crok, crok". You can also hear / feel the clunk while driving by gently going on/off the gas.
3- There is slight vibration under power. I haven`t driven at over 70 mph.
Inspections.
1- On a lifter, checked all the driveshaft bolts, center bearing and rubber couplings. They all "look" fine.
2- One area of concern that I found out about is the male/female spline coupling of the driveshaft. You can move it up and down by hand maybe up to 1/4" of an inch.
Questions.
1- What is normal play here?
2- What is part number 37328 in the diagram ("NUT, PROPELLER SHAFT ADJUSTING")?
3- How durable is the universal joint? (non-replaceable right?)
Thanks in Advance.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-...?highlight=sos
Bought the car with a blown engine and installed a JDM 1UZ-FE / tranny from a Celsior (LS400).
The engine is running strong, I have put about 200 miles on it so far. Still have a few minor bugs to fix such as: 1- Speedo, tach, fuel and temp all dead (odometer and trip are working fine), 2- A/C compressor is dead (being replaced tomorrow with the Celsior compressor that came with the JDM 1UZ). 3-Oil Level light is missbehaving... (on, off, back on)
But my main concern is in the transmission / driveshaft area. This is the JDM Celsior transmission. Both engine mounts and the transmission mount are brand new genuine parts. ATF is also genuine Toyota Type IV (oil level is correct...)
Symptoms:
1- The transmission is not silent. When put in gear with the car stopped, you hear a faint whining (pump, converter noise I suppose), then when the car starts moving, there is a slight roughness sound (like a worn bearing). First gear also whines slightly when taking off.
2- There is play in the drivetrain. Sometimes you hear a "clunk" when put in Drive or going from Drive to Reverse. Sometimes this clunk is multiple and goes "crok, crok, crok". You can also hear / feel the clunk while driving by gently going on/off the gas.
3- There is slight vibration under power. I haven`t driven at over 70 mph.
Inspections.
1- On a lifter, checked all the driveshaft bolts, center bearing and rubber couplings. They all "look" fine.
2- One area of concern that I found out about is the male/female spline coupling of the driveshaft. You can move it up and down by hand maybe up to 1/4" of an inch.
Questions.
1- What is normal play here?
2- What is part number 37328 in the diagram ("NUT, PROPELLER SHAFT ADJUSTING")?
3- How durable is the universal joint? (non-replaceable right?)
Thanks in Advance.
09-04-14, 12:39 AM
#2
OK so two issues.
1) I think the whining sound from the tranny is characteristic of a clogged tranny filter - did you change it? it could also be some kind of shipping damage inside the tranny.
2) The vibration you have is most likely the play in the shaft.
Funny, we are both doing the exact same swap, and for the same reasons - bought a GS4 with blown engine and putting JDM Celsior engine in!
1) I think the whining sound from the tranny is characteristic of a clogged tranny filter - did you change it? it could also be some kind of shipping damage inside the tranny.
2) The vibration you have is most likely the play in the shaft.
Funny, we are both doing the exact same swap, and for the same reasons - bought a GS4 with blown engine and putting JDM Celsior engine in!
09-04-14, 07:37 PM
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OK so two issues.
1) I think the whining sound from the tranny is characteristic of a clogged tranny filter - did you change it? it could also be some kind of shipping damage inside the tranny.
2) The vibration you have is most likely the play in the shaft.
Funny, we are both doing the exact same swap, and for the same reasons - bought a GS4 with blown engine and putting JDM Celsior engine in!
1) I think the whining sound from the tranny is characteristic of a clogged tranny filter - did you change it? it could also be some kind of shipping damage inside the tranny.
2) The vibration you have is most likely the play in the shaft.
Funny, we are both doing the exact same swap, and for the same reasons - bought a GS4 with blown engine and putting JDM Celsior engine in!
How is your swap coming along? I swaped the A/C compressor today with the Celsior unit. The A/C guy told me it is a higher capacity compressor. I think I will have to thinker with the temp control system, since the GS400 compressor seems to be variable displacement type. One extra thing you should use from your old engine. The coolant manifold on the back of the engine (replace it when you replace the starter harness), otherwise your wiring harness won`t bolt on the engine and hang loose. If you are using the Celsior tranny, you need to swap the oil pan too, since the dipstick tube is longer.
My drivetrain noises (my phone won`t pickup those noises very well, you need to crank the volumen to 100% ) BTW, I know, I need to adjust my shifter rod....
Clunking drivetrain.
Transmission Whine
Here the picture of the larger Celsior compressor vs the GS400 compressor.
09-04-14, 07:52 PM
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Driveshaft Inspection
Almost forgot..... Tomorrow morning the whole driveshaft will be removed for inspection (u-joints, center bearing and male/female spline coupling. I´ll keep you guys posted....
Last edited by PTYGS400; 09-04-14 at 07:59 PM.
09-05-14, 11:48 AM
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1- The center bearing is rolling smooth and the rubber is perfect
2- The exhaust bolts were seized and I was in a hurry so I didn´t remove the driveshaft. The large adjusting nut at the driveshaft spline coupling was not loose. I adjusted the shifter rod while I was down there...
4- I went to an auto transmission shop and had the tranny filter and fluid replaced. Same whining noise in park, neutral, reverse, first and second gear. The pan was very clean, virtually no dust / shavings etc.
3- Here´s a video of the spline coupling play:
09-08-14, 05:39 AM
#6
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Sorry I'm late to this party. I eventually make it tho. 
A quick test I like to do in these cases is to get the car up in the air on a lift. Apply the brakes and have someone shifting from park to drive while you are underneath looking for the noise.
A noise that bad should easily be identified while you're under there. You can also use a stethoscope to really pinpoint where it's coming from if you can't physically see the movement/play.
If there's no noise when up in the air, it's likely a suspension issue.
Sorry I was late to this. Have you seen anything new over the weekend? I know you work fast.
A quick test I like to do in these cases is to get the car up in the air on a lift. Apply the brakes and have someone shifting from park to drive while you are underneath looking for the noise.
A noise that bad should easily be identified while you're under there. You can also use a stethoscope to really pinpoint where it's coming from if you can't physically see the movement/play.
If there's no noise when up in the air, it's likely a suspension issue.
Sorry I was late to this. Have you seen anything new over the weekend? I know you work fast.
09-08-14, 04:46 PM
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Sorry I'm late to this party. I eventually make it tho.
A quick test I like to do in these cases is to get the car up in the air on a lift. Apply the brakes and have someone shifting from park to drive while you are underneath looking for the noise.
A noise that bad should easily be identified while you're under there. You can also use a stethoscope to really pinpoint where it's coming from if you can't physically see the movement/play.
If there's no noise when up in the air, it's likely a suspension issue.
Sorry I was late to this. Have you seen anything new over the weekend? I know you work fast.
A quick test I like to do in these cases is to get the car up in the air on a lift. Apply the brakes and have someone shifting from park to drive while you are underneath looking for the noise.
A noise that bad should easily be identified while you're under there. You can also use a stethoscope to really pinpoint where it's coming from if you can't physically see the movement/play.
If there's no noise when up in the air, it's likely a suspension issue.
Sorry I was late to this. Have you seen anything new over the weekend? I know you work fast.
Engine mounts and tranny mount are brand new (Genuine Toyota parts). Last month a friend of mine was fighting a vibration problem in a 2013 Jeep Wrangler, 5000 miles. After lots of time spent looking for the source of the vibration, and about $500 on parts. The source of the vibration was the dumbest thing ever. All he did was loosen the transmission mount and let it get in a neutral position (it was under stress, out of position). I see oval bolt holes in the Gs´s engine mounts, don`t know about the tranny mount. But I´ll give it a try, loosen all mounts and lift the engine/transmission to see if something is under stress.
BTW, my gauges are still dead. Only thing working is the Odometer and all the lights. (And VSC cannot be turned off). If any of you can sell me a tested instrument cluster, I am interested. Ditto for the driveshaft. How long do these things last? This car has 57K miles. One of these days I might take the plunge and install the trasnmission that came with the car (If this one keeps whining and moaning like a cats on a roof)
P.S.: I am up to almost 400 miles. The engine is strong. The air conditioner ice cold. The seats and sound system really nice too. Filled up today, 18 MPG, not bad..... and I have a dead Bank 2 upstream O2 sensor. I just took the wheels off, they are going to the paint shop. I am also installing the two brand new tires that came in the trunk of the car. When I cure these drivetrain gremlins, I can see this GS and I.... becoming really good friends.
Last edited by PTYGS400; 09-08-14 at 04:54 PM.
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09-09-14, 05:59 AM
#8
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Does it vibrate while driving only or also when at a stop?
I don't have any gauges but I do have a brand new OEM torque converter. But before you go swapping parts, more tests should be made. Have you troubleshooted the gauge circuits with an electrical diagram yet? Let's make sure you have proper signals coming to it before spending money.
A quick and dirty way is borrowing a cluster from a local car just to see if registers anything.
When the car is in park and on the ground (or ebrake applied), can you rotate the driveshaft a little? How much play is there?
A whining pump doesn't sound very good at all so swapping your original trans might have to be your final option. Shouldn't be a huge deal for you at this point. We've verified new filter and proper fluid level. So all the easy ways out are covered.
Do you have a local transmission specialist that could run some tests?
I don't have any gauges but I do have a brand new OEM torque converter. But before you go swapping parts, more tests should be made. Have you troubleshooted the gauge circuits with an electrical diagram yet? Let's make sure you have proper signals coming to it before spending money.
A quick and dirty way is borrowing a cluster from a local car just to see if registers anything.
When the car is in park and on the ground (or ebrake applied), can you rotate the driveshaft a little? How much play is there?
A whining pump doesn't sound very good at all so swapping your original trans might have to be your final option. Shouldn't be a huge deal for you at this point.
We've verified new filter and proper fluid level. So all the easy ways out are covered.Do you have a local transmission specialist that could run some tests?
09-09-14, 07:57 PM
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Does it vibrate while driving only or also when at a stop?
It vibrates in Park if you rev it (peak vibration @ around 2000 RPM, none at idle). Lets call this vibration #1 (You can both feel it and hear it). And there is also slight vibration under power (vibration #2). Neither of them is large by itself, but they do add up. Say, 2500 rpm under power, and you get the combined harshness.
I don't have any gauges but I do have a brand new OEM torque converter. But before you go swapping parts, more tests should be made. Have you troubleshooted the gauge circuits with an electrical diagram yet? Let's make sure you have proper signals coming to it before spending money.
Yes, I have tested all the voltages, resistances and grounds by the Service Manual. Today, I took the cluster to a electronic repair shop to see if he can find anything wrong.
A quick and dirty way is borrowing a cluster from a local car just to see if registers anything.
Yes, I wish I had a local friend with a GS400. It`s kinda weird talking a stranger into letting you borrow his cluster.. I have a friend who sold his GS a few months ago (nice silver GS with BBS wheels, coincidentally saw it close to my house on sunday morning. I might try finding out who owns it and see if he would be willing to help me with this test.
When the car is in park and on the ground (or ebrake applied), can you rotate the driveshaft a little? How much play is there?
Did you see the video? I didn`t try rotating it, but there is vertical play in the spline coupling, is this normal?
Just went under the car and tried measuring rotational play on the driveshaft. Its about 10 mm. Also went under the 4Runner and checked as a reference. It´s less, maybe around 6 or 7 mm. Here is a video of the play on the GS400 (e-brake applied, transmission in neutral):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bC0J28RMpI
A whining pump doesn't sound very good at all so swapping your original trans might have to be your final option. Shouldn't be a huge deal for you at this point. We've verified new filter and proper fluid level. So all the easy ways out are covered.
Do you have a local transmission specialist that could run some tests?
It vibrates in Park if you rev it (peak vibration @ around 2000 RPM, none at idle). Lets call this vibration #1 (You can both feel it and hear it). And there is also slight vibration under power (vibration #2). Neither of them is large by itself, but they do add up. Say, 2500 rpm under power, and you get the combined harshness.
I don't have any gauges but I do have a brand new OEM torque converter. But before you go swapping parts, more tests should be made. Have you troubleshooted the gauge circuits with an electrical diagram yet? Let's make sure you have proper signals coming to it before spending money.
Yes, I have tested all the voltages, resistances and grounds by the Service Manual. Today, I took the cluster to a electronic repair shop to see if he can find anything wrong.
A quick and dirty way is borrowing a cluster from a local car just to see if registers anything.
Yes, I wish I had a local friend with a GS400. It`s kinda weird talking a stranger into letting you borrow his cluster..
I have a friend who sold his GS a few months ago (nice silver GS with BBS wheels, coincidentally saw it close to my house on sunday morning. I might try finding out who owns it and see if he would be willing to help me with this test. When the car is in park and on the ground (or ebrake applied), can you rotate the driveshaft a little? How much play is there?
Did you see the video? I didn`t try rotating it, but there is vertical play in the spline coupling, is this normal?
Just went under the car and tried measuring rotational play on the driveshaft. Its about 10 mm. Also went under the 4Runner and checked as a reference. It´s less, maybe around 6 or 7 mm. Here is a video of the play on the GS400 (e-brake applied, transmission in neutral):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bC0J28RMpI
A whining pump doesn't sound very good at all so swapping your original trans might have to be your final option. Shouldn't be a huge deal for you at this point.
We've verified new filter and proper fluid level. So all the easy ways out are covered.Do you have a local transmission specialist that could run some tests?
The local transmission specialist replaced my filter... He said that since the pan of the transmission had almost no dust/shavings on the bottom, at least we know that there is nothing coming apart inside the transmission.
Last edited by PTYGS400; 09-09-14 at 08:44 PM.
09-10-14, 05:52 AM
#10
Pole Position
The rotational play seems excessive. On both cars. 
Can you see where the play is being introduced? Obviously the wheels aren't moving, so the play is 0 degrees there.
At what part of the drivetrain is it coming in? Wheel bearings, axles, differential?
I ask about the transmission because you have a pump whine, correct? That's obviously not a good thing. It should be silent. Are you sure it's coming from the transmission? I mean I know you know what you're doing but power steering pumps can make a similar noise.
Also, the clean ATF and filter can't be trusted. The previous owner might have done the same filter service trying to fix his transmission which would erase any clues. Unlikely, yes. But I've seen stranger things in my years of doing this. You can't rule out anything. If you replaced the radiator for some reason, you could cut open the tranny cooler in the bottom of it to check for clues.
I really wish I was there in person, this would be so much easier.
From here, it seems you have driveshaft play issues and separate transmission issues. The vibration is very odd. Have you been able to pin point the source of this? Have you been under the car while it's doing it so see if it's internal to the transmission or parhaps something hitting the chassis/firewall?
Also have you tried your reseating of the mounts like your Jeep friend? Not likely but wouldn't hurt.
Can you see where the play is being introduced? Obviously the wheels aren't moving, so the play is 0 degrees there.
At what part of the drivetrain is it coming in? Wheel bearings, axles, differential?
I ask about the transmission because you have a pump whine, correct? That's obviously not a good thing. It should be silent. Are you sure it's coming from the transmission? I mean I know you know what you're doing but power steering pumps can make a similar noise.
Also, the clean ATF and filter can't be trusted. The previous owner might have done the same filter service trying to fix his transmission which would erase any clues. Unlikely, yes. But I've seen stranger things in my years of doing this. You can't rule out anything. If you replaced the radiator for some reason, you could cut open the tranny cooler in the bottom of it to check for clues.
I really wish I was there in person, this would be so much easier.
From here, it seems you have driveshaft play issues and separate transmission issues. The vibration is very odd. Have you been able to pin point the source of this? Have you been under the car while it's doing it so see if it's internal to the transmission or parhaps something hitting the chassis/firewall?
Also have you tried your reseating of the mounts like your Jeep friend? Not likely but wouldn't hurt.
09-10-14, 06:55 PM
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The rotational play seems excessive. On both cars.
Can you see where the play is being introduced? Obviously the wheels aren't moving, so the play is 0 degrees there.
At what part of the drivetrain is it coming in? Wheel bearings, axles, differential?
Yes, I tried looking for the source of the play. While rotating the driveshaft I could see the halfshafts moving, so there is little to no play in the driveshaft or diff. I think most of it is from the CV joints. The boots look perfect / untouched (they could very well be factory boots)
I ask about the transmission because you have a pump whine, correct? That's obviously not a good thing. It should be silent. Are you sure it's coming from the transmission? I mean I know you know what you're doing but power steering pumps can make a similar noise.
Yes, I am aware of that. But it whines in first and second gear only. As son as it hits third gear, it shuts up....
Also, the clean ATF and filter can't be trusted. The previous owner might have done the same filter service trying to fix his transmission which would erase any clues. Unlikely, yes. But I've seen stranger things in my years of doing this. You can't rule out anything. If you replaced the radiator for some reason, you could cut open the tranny cooler in the bottom of it to check for clues.
You really have a point here. This is the JDM transmission. Hmmmm.
I really wish I was there in person, this would be so much easier.
Thank you my friend, I really apreciate it.
From here, it seems you have driveshaft play issues and separate transmission issues. The vibration is very odd. Have you been able to pin point the source of this? Have you been under the car while it's doing it so see if it's internal to the transmission or parhaps something hitting the chassis/firewall?
I´ll have to install and test the other transmission, and while I´m at it, I´ll remove the exhaust and driveshaft to give it a through inspection. Before that, I have to go to the muffler shop and have the guy use his torch to loosen up the rusty bolts.(
Also have you tried your reseating of the mounts like your Jeep friend? Not likely but wouldn't hurt.
Can you see where the play is being introduced? Obviously the wheels aren't moving, so the play is 0 degrees there.
At what part of the drivetrain is it coming in? Wheel bearings, axles, differential?
Yes, I tried looking for the source of the play. While rotating the driveshaft I could see the halfshafts moving, so there is little to no play in the driveshaft or diff. I think most of it is from the CV joints. The boots look perfect / untouched (they could very well be factory boots)
I ask about the transmission because you have a pump whine, correct? That's obviously not a good thing. It should be silent. Are you sure it's coming from the transmission? I mean I know you know what you're doing but power steering pumps can make a similar noise.
Yes, I am aware of that. But it whines in first and second gear only. As son as it hits third gear, it shuts up....
Also, the clean ATF and filter can't be trusted. The previous owner might have done the same filter service trying to fix his transmission which would erase any clues. Unlikely, yes. But I've seen stranger things in my years of doing this. You can't rule out anything. If you replaced the radiator for some reason, you could cut open the tranny cooler in the bottom of it to check for clues.
You really have a point here. This is the JDM transmission. Hmmmm.
I really wish I was there in person, this would be so much easier.
Thank you my friend, I really apreciate it.
From here, it seems you have driveshaft play issues and separate transmission issues. The vibration is very odd. Have you been able to pin point the source of this? Have you been under the car while it's doing it so see if it's internal to the transmission or parhaps something hitting the chassis/firewall?
I´ll have to install and test the other transmission, and while I´m at it, I´ll remove the exhaust and driveshaft to give it a through inspection. Before that, I have to go to the muffler shop and have the guy use his torch to loosen up the rusty bolts.(
Also have you tried your reseating of the mounts like your Jeep friend? Not likely but wouldn't hurt.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
09-11-14, 04:49 AM
#12
You did change the exhaust manifolds right?
My swap has been hampered by my busy schedule and the little buying spree i've been on, once the car was apart I decided to buy a bunch of extras to make it a little better.
I will run the stock A/C pump and quite possibly the stock tranny too. Thanks for the tip on the coolant crossover manifold,
My swap has been hampered by my busy schedule and the little buying spree i've been on, once the car was apart I decided to buy a bunch of extras to make it a little better.
I will run the stock A/C pump and quite possibly the stock tranny too. Thanks for the tip on the coolant crossover manifold,
09-11-14, 04:08 PM
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You did change the exhaust manifolds right?
My swap has been hampered by my busy schedule and the little buying spree i've been on, once the car was apart I decided to buy a bunch of extras to make it a little better.
I will run the stock A/C pump and quite possibly the stock tranny too. Thanks for the tip on the coolant crossover manifold,
My swap has been hampered by my busy schedule and the little buying spree i've been on, once the car was apart I decided to buy a bunch of extras to make it a little better.
I will run the stock A/C pump and quite possibly the stock tranny too. Thanks for the tip on the coolant crossover manifold,
09-20-14, 07:12 PM
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Update
I have been very busy with work and haven´t had much time to troubleshoot the vibration issue. The only thing that I did do is loosening and re-seating the engine mounts. One of them went "crack" when loosened up. I had some faith that it would cure the vibration, but didn`t.
I have driven the car over 600 miles already. I thought the vibration was related to engine torque, but it seems it is not. It seems it`s totally RPM related. Up to 1800 it`s very smooth. Above that engine speed it vibrates no matter what gear or engine load. Even in park. One the plus side, it is shifting very well, no lag, no slipping.
The transmission keeps making the whining and slight grinding noises at low speed (Park, neutral, reverse, and first two gears). There is nothing I can do about it, so I am going to take the plunge and install the one that came with the car and see if its in better shape.
Gauges. Still not working. Reading speed, rpm and engine temps off the OBD2. All information lights work fine. Odometer and trip meters, and low fuel light also work perfect. I´ve been getting 17-18 MPG, mixed driving. I haven`t been able to get another GS400 to test my gauges on, so I went ahead and ordered a cluster from ebay. All fingers crossed...
CEL: Bank 2 Sensor 1 is not sending any signals. I have to test the wiring and then replace this sensor if the wires are ok. Engine power is very good. Nice torquey motor.
Next week I´ll try to replace the tranny, and remove the whole driveshaft for through inspection.
Thank you for following this thread.
I have driven the car over 600 miles already. I thought the vibration was related to engine torque, but it seems it is not. It seems it`s totally RPM related. Up to 1800 it`s very smooth. Above that engine speed it vibrates no matter what gear or engine load. Even in park. One the plus side, it is shifting very well, no lag, no slipping.
The transmission keeps making the whining and slight grinding noises at low speed (Park, neutral, reverse, and first two gears). There is nothing I can do about it, so I am going to take the plunge and install the one that came with the car and see if its in better shape.
Gauges. Still not working. Reading speed, rpm and engine temps off the OBD2. All information lights work fine. Odometer and trip meters, and low fuel light also work perfect. I´ve been getting 17-18 MPG, mixed driving. I haven`t been able to get another GS400 to test my gauges on, so I went ahead and ordered a cluster from ebay. All fingers crossed...
CEL: Bank 2 Sensor 1 is not sending any signals. I have to test the wiring and then replace this sensor if the wires are ok. Engine power is very good. Nice torquey motor.
Next week I´ll try to replace the tranny, and remove the whole driveshaft for through inspection.
Thank you for following this thread.